Thorpe on Lillard (Insider)

[BrianFromWA]

Clips from the ESPN article. Highly recommend insider if you don't already have it:

Let's take a look at how he measures up to what some of the current point guard stars did as rookies:

First, let's look at the pure physical side of the question...Lillard simply does not measure up to these guys (ed: Westbrook, Rose, Holiday, Bledsoe). Of course, no other point guards do either. He has decent measurements but is not the physical force on the court these guys are, nor does he have anything close to their explosiveness (other than Holiday, who still ranks better than Lillard in this category). Westbrook, Rose and Bledsoe have been compared to LeBron James in terms of their athleticism for their position. That will never happen with Lillard, nor will he ever look like a big forward playing point guard like Holiday sometimes does.
...
Next let's look at point guards who possess extraordinary quickness, such as Lawson, Jennings, Teague and Wall....Lillard is clearly quick and fast, but he is not in the range of Lawson, Jennings, Teague and Wall. He's closer to this group than he is the first group, but still a quarter-step behind them. That is fast enough, though, to help him get 41 percent of his shots off in 10 seconds or less. Because it's about quickness to the rim in the half court, not just speed, and craft with the ball plays a factor, too.

Lillard finishes 53 percent of his rim shots, better than the smaller and slighter Jennings, but well behind the blurs of Teague (61 percent) and Lawson (64 percent). As Lillard is just a rookie, we can expect these numbers to go up a bit over time.
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Those who are not super quick or ultra-athletic must then be incredibly skilled if they want to be special players at this position. Curry is already an amazing shooter...Walker is very quick, but it's his handle that is special...Rubio is passing personified, capable of making every offensive player a bigger threat simply because of the way he can lead guys to easy buckets....Irving, finally, is the perfect combination of size, skill, feel and overall ambition to be great...This is where Portland fans can rise and cheer, because Irving is the guy Lillard can be most like, especially if he can match Irving's drive to be the best.
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None of the guys on this list are special passers, save Wall and Rubio...Lillard is in the big group of solid and willing passers, someone who will improve on his overall passing and game management, but he's likely not a player who will be known for his ability to pass.
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Lillard is terrific, as a rookie, at all these things. He's excellent in the pick-and-roll game, patient in his game-managing as he lets plays develop, and aware that he must score for his team to win. He's not the shooter Irving is, or Curry, but he is far better than Rose, Westbrook or Wall were at their rookie age, and maybe even today.

We still have a lot to study as Lillard plays out the season, and we won't know much about his defensive talents for another season or two. But it's clear he has a chance to get to the level of Rose, Westbrook or Irving, which is saying a lot. The Trail Blazers, as a franchise, have to be pleased that their pick has, at least, the talent and upside to be a potential All-Star.

He projects to be better than many of the starting guards who have entered the league in the past five seasons or so. And his rookie season has the potential to measure up to -- and even exceed -- them all, which is huge when you consider how marvelous Irving was just a season ago.

 

[magnifier661]

I agree with his assesment; with the exception of his lack of explosiveness. I think he has it in him; but chooses not to. Rather he goes with the flow of the game and at times can take it completely over. I think this physical management will help in his health too. His talent isn't just his athleticism. He actually plays smart. So even if he is a bit injured; he can still be a major part of success for the team. Rose or Westbrook get injured; they aren't a 1/4 of their strength.

 

[HailBlazers]

Pretty good breakdown indeed. And while Curry/Irving are extraodrinary shooters, on normal squared up shots I believe Lillard is just as good.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I agree with his assesment; with the exception of his lack of explosiveness. I think he has it in him; but chooses not to. Rather he goes with the flow of the game and at times can take it completely over. I think this physical management will help in his health too. His talent isn't just his athleticism. He actually plays smart. So even if he is a bit injured; he can still be a major part of success for the team. Rose or Westbrook get injured; they aren't a 1/4 of their strength.

Agreed. To me, it feels like Lillard is playing the game like he's 29. And hopefully that means he'll be able to play like he's 29 long after he's 29... kind of like Andre Miller with a (more visible) vertical leap (we know Miller has a vertical leap he can break out when he wants to).

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

An excellent post, Brian.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I agree with his assesment; with the exception of his lack of explosiveness. I think he has it in him; but chooses not to. Rather he goes with the flow of the game and at times can take it completely over. I think this physical management will help in his health too. His talent isn't just his athleticism. He actually plays smart. So even if he is a bit injured; he can still be a major part of success for the team. Rose or Westbrook get injured; they aren't a 1/4 of their strength.

I have not figured that out yet. I know he is not as quick as Rose. (Or at least as quick as Rose "was") And he has never raced down the floor in a 'Blur". But I agree that he does a good job of choosing his moments. His change of speed is very good. The bottom line is he is explosive enough since he doesn't need to get all the way to the basket to score. (Like some of the ultra PG's ) He is no Robert Pack in terms of speed. But he is still better

 

[Further]

I pretty much agree with the whole article.

I remember tons of people saying that Roy was more athletic than his measurements indicated, and then the eyes assessed. I think Lillard is similar.


Something that really bothered me way back in Roys second or third season was there was a video clip that was released showing how much he was working on his strength, to be explosive. He was standing and would jump up onto a ~3 foot high box while carrying weights, and do this repeatedly. At the time, I thought to myself, that can't be good on the knees, and the way Roy plays he doesn't need supreme leaping ability. I just hope that with Lillard the strength and conditioning staff realize that Lillard is good but not great athletically and don't try destroy his knees turning him into something he isn't.

 

[Natebishop3]

I pretty much agree with the whole article.

I remember tons of people saying that Roy was more athletic than his measurements indicated, and then the eyes assessed. I think Lillard is similar.


Something that really bothered me way back in Roys second or third season was there was a video clip that was released showing how much he was working on his strength, to be explosive. He was standing and would jump up onto a ~3 foot high box while carrying weights, and do this repeatedly. At the time, I thought to myself, that can't be good on the knees, and the way Roy plays he doesn't need supreme leaping ability. I just hope that with Lillard the strength and conditioning staff realize that Lillard is good but not great athletically and don't try destroy his knees turning him into something he isn't.

Which makes you wonder..... why are these people still employed here?

 

[Further]

Which makes you wonder..... why are these people still employed here?

you're preaching to the choir. I just don't understand all the turnover that has happened in the organization without also getting new medical staff and strength and conditioning staff.

 

[Haakzilla]

...here's a five minute video of Thorpe on TrueHoopTV discussing PGs --> http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:8763683

 

[Rhal]

I can't read this article for some reason. I have insider and can read other insider articles but not this one, kinda bummed out about that.

 

[illmatic99]

Not sure what's going on with Dame's shot as of late, but he's missing some wide open ones. His FG% is in the toilet right now.

 

[PapaG]

Lillard isn't explosive at all. Have I missed the Bledsoe dunks like this one?

[video=youtube;vRdbBpRLyHA]

 

[PapaG]

Not sure what's going on with Dame's shot as of late, but he's missing some wide open ones. His FG% is in the toilet right now.

I would trade him for draft picks and start bashing him if I weren't me, who realizes that rookies have to make adjustments, and that Damian just put up a double-double on a night he didn't shoot well.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Wall is a "special passer"? Really? I don't see it.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Lillard isn't explosive at all. Have I missed the Bledsoe dunks like this one?

[video=youtube;vRdbBpRLyHA]

Is it just me or do you think he did that as a specific statement responding to Thorpe?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I trust Thorpe on some things but not on others. He seems to view players like a horse breeder views horses. I don't think he's actually much of a coach or basketball player. Everything is potential with him, and everything is compartmentalized into little boxes that you can check off and measure. If he says anything about defense, I didn't see it, because that's primarily mental and develops over time according to how smart a player is. He LOVES Irving (as do I) but of course Irving was rated as just about the worst defender in the NBA last year. That is one aspect, sadly, where Lillard can rank up there with him.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Wall is a "special passer"? Really? I don't see it.

That was the only thing I questioned as well. I guess I just have not seen enough of him since he has been hurt.

But he did say Lillard was very athletic, just not in the ultra jet speed category as a few of the others. But he put him in the camp of type of pG he would want for his team.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

That was the only thing I questioned as well. I guess I just have not seen enough of him since he has been hurt.

He obviously believes it because he said it in the TrueHoop interview too, and it made me go "wah!?"
His categorization seems a bit weird, too: he puts Rose in with the "beasts" and Wall in with the "speed demons". Yes Wall is fast, but his size is more telling. He looks (and passes) more like a 2 guard. Rose seems just more speedy. And is George Hill really a speed demon? I think he's measuring end-to-end speed, but I think "quicks" are more important. I just don't see Hill as someone like Rose who can get to the rim at will. That "blowby" factor.

Just goes to show again how unique Andre Miller is. Craftiness beats all.