Thus endeth the debate (1 Viewer)

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Compare the teams around each during their rookie years:

Other guard: Matthews v Jarrett Jack
Small forward: Batum v Ime Udoka
Power forward: Aldridge v Zach Randolph
Center: Hickson v Magloire/Przybilla

Seems to me that Lillard has had better players up and down the (starting) lineup than Roy did during his rookie year. Make of that what you will.

I liked the line-up they ran with after the trade deadline and they were done "showcasing" Magloire.

PG - Jack
SG - Roy
SF - Ime
PF - Zbo
C - Aldridge

Aldridge and Roy both played their best ball with that line-up. LaMarcus at center and Zbo at PF worked really well together.

BNM
 
The Kings sure do have an uncanny knack for acquiring power forwards they can't/don't use and then giving up on them after less than a full season.

BNM

The Maloofs have driven a once proud franchise into the ground.

They purchased majority control of the team July 1, 1999.

With that team, already in place was probably the best front line in the NBA (Chris Webber, Vlade Divic, Peja Stojakivic), quality depth, and a solid coach (Rick Adelman) which carried the team for years of deep playoff runs and sold out season tickets. The Maloofs seemed ok owners during this period.

It was when the rebuilding phase happened that their true incompetence won out. I feel bad for the (once) great fan base in Sacramento that was destroyed by bad management.
 
That is a good question. Disregarding their injury history i think i would take Dame over Roy and Oden.
The reason for me is how the game has evolved. I firmly believe that a PG like Damian has a bigger impact on the game than any other position. A injury free Roy would have been awesome. I loved Roy's game. But a really good scoring PG is really tough to stop if he has great handles and quickness. (And he can shoot)

Roy was turning into one of the top Closers in the NBA. You can't really win in the playoffs without one.
 
Compare the teams around each during their rookie years:

Other guard: Matthews v Jarrett Jack
Small forward: Batum v Ime Udoka
Power forward: Aldridge v Zach Randolph
Center: Hickson v Magloire/Przybilla

Seems to me that Lillard has had better players up and down the (starting) lineup than Roy did during his rookie year. Make of that what you will.

Their bench was infinitely better.

Jack/Dickau/Sergio
Roy/Dixon
Ime/Martell/Outlaw
Zach/Aldridge
Magloire/Prz
 
Their bench was infinitely better.

Jack/Dickau/Sergio
Roy/Dixon
Ime/Martell/Outlaw
Zach/Aldridge
Magloire/Prz

Yeah, I don't think any one is disputing that. Doesn't change the fact that in general, Lillard has shared the court with better players than Roy did in his rookie year.
 
Yeah, I don't think any one is disputing that. Doesn't change the fact that in general, Lillard has shared the court with better players than Roy did in his rookie year.

In terms of individual stats, I'm not sure if that helped, or hurt Roy's production. It put more of a burden on Roy to score, but with that increased responsibility came increased opportunity. Lillard needs to share the ball with his more talented teammates. Perhaps they were/are both a good match for the players around them. Lillard the PG, needs to share and look to get his quality fellow starters involved. Roy the isolation monster needed to look to take over the game during crunch time. Overall, I like the Lillard/team style better than the Roy/iso offense, but I think Brandon did the best with what he had to work with.

BNM
 
I think the question about Damien actually is - can he get much better (4 years of college after all) or is this basically what we can expect?

Not that I'm complainin'
 
I think the question about Damien actually is - can he get much better (4 years of college after all) or is this basically what we can expect?

Not that I'm complainin'

Roy did, and he was a 4-year college guy, too.

BNM
 
I think the question about Damien actually is - can he get much better (4 years of college after all) or is this basically what we can expect?

Not that I'm complainin'

Here is what I expect to improve:

FTA - the refs will start to give him calls that he's not currently getting

Assists - I think his numbers will actually increase next year

3PA - I think he'll attempt less threes as he gets more calls.
 
I think the question about Damien actually is - can he get much better (4 years of college after all) or is this basically what we can expect?

Not that I'm complainin'

I don't think there's that much of a drop off for how much he can improve. Playing against better competition does wonders for the advancement of skills. And I'd say his competition now is significantly better than last year.
 
I think the question about Damien actually is - can he get much better (4 years of college after all) or is this basically what we can expect?

Not that I'm complainin'

I think his shooting percentages will improve as he learns how to get better shots, and maybe even gets a tad stronger. It seems common for rookie guards to have low shooting percentages. He also has room to get better passing the ball and defending, and I think he's already shown improvement on defense.
 
I'm actually a little surprised by the overwhelming majority saying they would take Lillard over Roy.

Personally, if made to choose, I would go with Roy...and I REALLY like Lillard.
 
I'm actually a little surprised by the overwhelming majority saying they would take Lillard over Roy.

Personally, if made to choose, I would go with Roy...and I REALLY like Lillard.

Huh.....I think I would take Lillard, but that is tough. Roy was obviously great but Lillard gets the rest of the team involved better, plays at a faster tempo, and (hopefully) will become as dominant a player by year 3, 4.
 
Huh.....I think I would take Lillard, but that is tough. Roy was obviously great but Lillard gets the rest of the team involved better, plays at a faster tempo, and (hopefully) will become as dominant a player by year 3, 4.

It is possible Lillard can become dominant, but Roy became a legitimate top 10 player in the league. This is one I'd love to be wrong about!
 
It is possible Lillard can become dominant, but Roy became a legitimate top 10 player in the league. This is one I'd love to be wrong about!

roy had a 18 per as a rookie 19.4 year 2 and, 24 year 3

heres hoping!
 
It is possible Lillard can become dominant, but Roy became a legitimate top 10 player in the league. This is one I'd love to be wrong about!

But that's not the question. He didn't ask if you would take the Roy that you knew he'd become. He asked if, in a vacuum, if you would take rookie Dame or rookie Roy?

We don't know what the future holds for Dame. He might turn out to be just as good as Roy in his prime, or maybe he'll end up retired in four years (like Roy). But some of us feel if we were faced with a choice between the two in their rookie years, with no knowledge of their futures, we would take Dame.
 
But that's not the question. He didn't ask if you would take the Roy that you knew he'd become. He asked if, in a vacuum, if you would take rookie Dame or rookie Roy?
Maybe you missed the part where I was replying to HomerLovesKoolaid's hope that Lillard would become dominant in years 3,4.

We don't know what the future holds for Dame. He might turn out to be just as good as Roy in his prime, or maybe he'll end up retired in four years (like Roy). But some of us feel if we were faced with a choice between the two in their rookie years, with no knowledge of their futures, we would take Dame.

Yes, I'm aware. And I'm still surprised. Roy put up a rookie PER of 18.0. Lillard is at 16.0. Roy had a WS/48 of 0.114, Lillard is 0.087. TS%: Roy was 55%, Lillard is 54%. Basically, Roy was better by pretty much every statistical measure. And while Roy's defense wasn't amazing, I think it was better than Lillard's.

I feel that Roy and Lillard have similar skill sets, leadership qualities, demeanor, and other non-tangibles. But Roy, IMO, was even better as a rookie and when I take into account his size and strength, I felt he had a better chance to be a dominant player.
 
With the importance of the PG position and Lillard's athleticism I think you can make a case he has a higher ceiling than Roy did. But Roy reached his so we'll have to wait and see. Also, to the Lillard-pickers who said they enjoy watching Lillard more than they ever did watching Roy: I think that's a little bit of recency bias talking. Fact is it's probably a tie. Every one of us was just a gaga for Roy then as we are for Lillard now.

As for the post about Lillard's classmates who may have higher ceilings (Beal, Barnes, Davis), I think Drummond was a glaring omission. In fact I think it's to the point he's the only candidate. I could be wrong about Davis, but I just can't think of anyone in that mold being a superstar. Could he be a slightly better version of peak-Camby? Definitely. Barnes and Beal could be nice players, perhaps developing into the Rudy Gay of Roy's class as players who always seem like they might have the upside to surpass the R.O.Y. but can never quite get there and settle in as fringe all-star candidates.

Drummond, on the other hand, is what Oden was supposed to be. To me he has shown flashes of Shaq/Dwight that are impossible to ignore. I wonder if Detroit "knew" something the rest of us didn't about him (as in, have him top 3 on their board), or whether they just lucked into being the team on the clock when the risk/reward favored taking him. The fact that they didn't trade up suggests the latter. In which case, I would give anything to go back in time and trade from #11 to #9 by any means necessary.
 
I feel that Roy and Lillard have similar skill sets, leadership qualities, demeanor, and other non-tangibles. But Roy, IMO, was even better as a rookie and when I take into account his size and strength, I felt he had a better chance to be a dominant player.

Fair points about Roy, especially the advanced metrics. But Lillard's upside is top-notch too. His ceiling is a Irving/Westbrook hybrid: 80% of Irving's natural shooting and ball-handling talent, 80% of Westbrook's explosion and quickness. A happy medium and a long-term top 5 PG in the NBA.

Top 5 PG might sound like it pales in comparison to the ceiling Roy reached--top 7 or 8 player overall--but I think that says more about the state of the PG position today.
 
I wonder what type of advanced stats Lillard would have with Nate coaching. Nate would run the shit out of a iso Lillard if he were coach. I was and still am a huge broy fan. He is still my favorite blazer of all time; but I just think Lillard will eventually become the best blazer to ever put on a blazer uniform; if he can stay healthy throughout his career.

This isn't the homer in me talking either. Their is something about this kid that's really really special.
 

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