mook
The 2018-19 season was the best I've seen
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Well, he got a significant mention anyway in this podcast ranking the best defensive guards in past 15 years. He seemed to fall just outside top 5:
https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/...sodes/220-the-best-defenders-of-the-183194188
They highlighted his unique style of defense (guarding from beside and often behind the ball handler, using length and anticipation to bother shots, basically a force of chaos for both teams lol).
Transcript of just Matisse talk:
The third guy in this category for me, Cody is
Matisse, thyball.
He's just his own category.
Well, he's just like, does he play enough minutes?
Is he too specialized? Is he? Matisse
is also,
hard in a sense to rank
because I think if you were to look
at his regular season.
and impact only
and how destructive he is. And you say,
we're gonna put him in the right situation. And I think
Philadelphia was fairly close
with Joel Embiid behind him.
And you say, you're a coach and you're more comfortable
and you say, okay, do your thing, baby.
Like just get behind everyone,
run around, be chaotic, be nuts.
I think his regular season impact would
stack up pretty well with
any of these guys. I mean, if you look at
the metrics we've been talking about in 2021,
Matisse was first among guards in
estimated plus minus in the entire NBA.
He was second overall among all players.
In 2022, he was second among guards and
third overall among all players. And
if I'm remembering off the top of my head,
the guard that was ahead of him was either super low
minutes or someone who we wouldn't consider a
guard, we'd consider him a wing. So basically
the exact same thing, like first among guards,
top three among all defenders in the league. Where
I get more concerned and where I think his career
has been interesting so far and it'll be interesting,
like really fascinating to see what happens in Portland. I
get concerned about a playoff
setting where you need
to implement certain things,
you wanna disrupt what the other team is doing,
but Matisse is still in that one mold of
like, oh, I'm gonna let guys
go by me and then just get crazy. And it's like, I
don't know if that's gonna generate quite
the same impact. And so when I stack
up like, who do I want on a team if
part of that
like question is lingering in my head, I
just, especially with like three or four of these
guys, I'm just not sure
what to do with him.
Yeah, he's on my list. He
is not number one though. I'll tell you that he is not
number one on my list. And you know, the wrecking ball
thing, we've tread this ground so many times,
but you know, if you look at any player who's
six, six or shorter ever of
all time that have played at least a thousand minutes in a.
He's the only one ever to
average over two blocks and two steals per 75 possessions
Basketball index has a statistic
called passing lane defense Which is basically like
bad pass steals and deflections
and they add it together It only goes back to 2017
but thiebel has the top two
in those numbers I didn't write this one
down, but I know that the NBA shot
charts as a dr. Appm for for
opposing turnovers
You know per 100 possessions when a player's
on the court the last three years I both
number one there so he causes the most turnovers
on the court. He's just
Certifiably, maybe the most
disruptive perimeter player ever But
like you said I had to dock him a little bit because
you just like stick him in front of somebody He
can get blown by a few times, right? He's
kind of just like I think in the video you said this It's
almost like he prefers playing from
behind on guys. He likes poking it away, but also
it is also really effective He just
recovers. He's blocking a shot here He
just like tell there's a couple plays been rough
slowed it down to like half speed and it looks like
I'm watching the matrix Cuz he's moving. Yeah at
regular speed and everyone else is just like moving.
I don't know man Just
an
unbelievable player you can convince me that
I'm a little high on him
But I also just can't ignore some of these other things
well well here's the issue though It's less
about him getting blown by and I think there
are many great defenders Who
can be weak in an area like that and make
up for it everywhere else? Scotty
Pippen is one that comes to mind where some of the quicker
players he had to defend Could get
by him a little more than you wanted or a little
more than everyone else But then everything
that happens after that in the possession
you're actually like oh
these aren't the same breakdowns as Just
someone being totally flat-footed and space-shotted
and you know the deal. It's more like Pippen
still slides with them He might peel switch He
might actually come in from behind and guard the other
you know the big man steps up and Pippen's
there So
it's not that Matisse has
weak feet in certain situations or that
he's having these breakdowns to me
me the thing with him
is that he's almost deliberately getting,
like that's his instinct. His instinct is to almost
get out of position and create chaos because
he's so skilled in that area. But that's an
individual thing,
right? Then the rest of the team has to make
up for it. And I, I believe, um, some
of the coaches
have been frustrated with that, who have had
to coach him before. And maybe that's why you
see situations, Cody, where like he's out of the
rotation entirely, despite
these obviously incredible defensive
skills, despite these numbers. And
that's where it comes back to playoff stuff for me, where
I'm just like, man, is
it easy to harness the
things that Cody loves about Matisse, that
I agree are very real this like matrix
like ability to be disruptive. Some of the
shot blocking the hands. Um,
he's very active chasing you off screens.
Like he's, he's a good defender.
He's a really good defender. But the question
is if we're talking about the
best of the best defenders in
this category, is that
something that
makes it easier to have an effective
playoff defense than some of the other guys? That's
where I get a little bit
stuck. I think that's, that's my concern.
Okay.
And I, I hear all those concerns. I do.
I hear all of them, but I also just really
highly value all of the other things.
And maybe, maybe the reframing of it
is like you hear Greg Popovich talking
about young Manu Ginobili. And after a while I was like, I
just had to learn that I had to let him like go out there and do
his dance titles kind of the same way on defense.
He's not the same level of brilliance, but it's like the same
category of just like, let's just harness
this and let's see where it takes us. I'm glad you
brought that up because I had that same thought,
but to me it's asymmetrical
because on offense, you control the ball
on defense. You need to work as a unit. And
I think the thing that people are concerned with, with
Matisse is that he's making it harder for the
other four defenders,
not, not easier for them. So it still
may work for him,
right? But in the long run
they're concerned about the other.
four defenders on the court.
https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/...sodes/220-the-best-defenders-of-the-183194188
They highlighted his unique style of defense (guarding from beside and often behind the ball handler, using length and anticipation to bother shots, basically a force of chaos for both teams lol).
Transcript of just Matisse talk:
The third guy in this category for me, Cody is
Matisse, thyball.
He's just his own category.
Well, he's just like, does he play enough minutes?
Is he too specialized? Is he? Matisse
is also,
hard in a sense to rank
because I think if you were to look
at his regular season.
and impact only
and how destructive he is. And you say,
we're gonna put him in the right situation. And I think
Philadelphia was fairly close
with Joel Embiid behind him.
And you say, you're a coach and you're more comfortable
and you say, okay, do your thing, baby.
Like just get behind everyone,
run around, be chaotic, be nuts.
I think his regular season impact would
stack up pretty well with
any of these guys. I mean, if you look at
the metrics we've been talking about in 2021,
Matisse was first among guards in
estimated plus minus in the entire NBA.
He was second overall among all players.
In 2022, he was second among guards and
third overall among all players. And
if I'm remembering off the top of my head,
the guard that was ahead of him was either super low
minutes or someone who we wouldn't consider a
guard, we'd consider him a wing. So basically
the exact same thing, like first among guards,
top three among all defenders in the league. Where
I get more concerned and where I think his career
has been interesting so far and it'll be interesting,
like really fascinating to see what happens in Portland. I
get concerned about a playoff
setting where you need
to implement certain things,
you wanna disrupt what the other team is doing,
but Matisse is still in that one mold of
like, oh, I'm gonna let guys
go by me and then just get crazy. And it's like, I
don't know if that's gonna generate quite
the same impact. And so when I stack
up like, who do I want on a team if
part of that
like question is lingering in my head, I
just, especially with like three or four of these
guys, I'm just not sure
what to do with him.
Yeah, he's on my list. He
is not number one though. I'll tell you that he is not
number one on my list. And you know, the wrecking ball
thing, we've tread this ground so many times,
but you know, if you look at any player who's
six, six or shorter ever of
all time that have played at least a thousand minutes in a.
He's the only one ever to
average over two blocks and two steals per 75 possessions
Basketball index has a statistic
called passing lane defense Which is basically like
bad pass steals and deflections
and they add it together It only goes back to 2017
but thiebel has the top two
in those numbers I didn't write this one
down, but I know that the NBA shot
charts as a dr. Appm for for
opposing turnovers
You know per 100 possessions when a player's
on the court the last three years I both
number one there so he causes the most turnovers
on the court. He's just
Certifiably, maybe the most
disruptive perimeter player ever But
like you said I had to dock him a little bit because
you just like stick him in front of somebody He
can get blown by a few times, right? He's
kind of just like I think in the video you said this It's
almost like he prefers playing from
behind on guys. He likes poking it away, but also
it is also really effective He just
recovers. He's blocking a shot here He
just like tell there's a couple plays been rough
slowed it down to like half speed and it looks like
I'm watching the matrix Cuz he's moving. Yeah at
regular speed and everyone else is just like moving.
I don't know man Just
an
unbelievable player you can convince me that
I'm a little high on him
But I also just can't ignore some of these other things
well well here's the issue though It's less
about him getting blown by and I think there
are many great defenders Who
can be weak in an area like that and make
up for it everywhere else? Scotty
Pippen is one that comes to mind where some of the quicker
players he had to defend Could get
by him a little more than you wanted or a little
more than everyone else But then everything
that happens after that in the possession
you're actually like oh
these aren't the same breakdowns as Just
someone being totally flat-footed and space-shotted
and you know the deal. It's more like Pippen
still slides with them He might peel switch He
might actually come in from behind and guard the other
you know the big man steps up and Pippen's
there So
it's not that Matisse has
weak feet in certain situations or that
he's having these breakdowns to me
me the thing with him
is that he's almost deliberately getting,
like that's his instinct. His instinct is to almost
get out of position and create chaos because
he's so skilled in that area. But that's an
individual thing,
right? Then the rest of the team has to make
up for it. And I, I believe, um, some
of the coaches
have been frustrated with that, who have had
to coach him before. And maybe that's why you
see situations, Cody, where like he's out of the
rotation entirely, despite
these obviously incredible defensive
skills, despite these numbers. And
that's where it comes back to playoff stuff for me, where
I'm just like, man, is
it easy to harness the
things that Cody loves about Matisse, that
I agree are very real this like matrix
like ability to be disruptive. Some of the
shot blocking the hands. Um,
he's very active chasing you off screens.
Like he's, he's a good defender.
He's a really good defender. But the question
is if we're talking about the
best of the best defenders in
this category, is that
something that
makes it easier to have an effective
playoff defense than some of the other guys? That's
where I get a little bit
stuck. I think that's, that's my concern.
Okay.
And I, I hear all those concerns. I do.
I hear all of them, but I also just really
highly value all of the other things.
And maybe, maybe the reframing of it
is like you hear Greg Popovich talking
about young Manu Ginobili. And after a while I was like, I
just had to learn that I had to let him like go out there and do
his dance titles kind of the same way on defense.
He's not the same level of brilliance, but it's like the same
category of just like, let's just harness
this and let's see where it takes us. I'm glad you
brought that up because I had that same thought,
but to me it's asymmetrical
because on offense, you control the ball
on defense. You need to work as a unit. And
I think the thing that people are concerned with, with
Matisse is that he's making it harder for the
other four defenders,
not, not easier for them. So it still
may work for him,
right? But in the long run
they're concerned about the other.
four defenders on the court.
