Politics Tillerson and Mattis are reportedly trying to hold Trump back from striking North Korea

[SlyPokerDog]

• President Donald Trump's secretaries of state and defense are trying to persuade him not to strike North Korea, while his national security adviser is pushing for a "bloody nose" attack, according to recent reports in The Telegraph and The Wall Street Journal.

• Rex Tillerson, the secretary of state, has reportedly been key in pushing for peace, but he may be on his way out.

• A US strike would mean it implicitly trusts that North Korea's leader, Kim Jong Un, wouldn't escalate it into an all-out war that could kill millions.

The Trump administration is debating a "bloody nose" attack on North Korea, recent reports say, with the president's inner circle split and apparently teetering between endorsing a strike and holding out hope for diplomacy.

Both The Telegraph and The Wall Street Journal have portrayed Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Secretary of Defense James Mattis as trying to caution President Donald Trump against a strike, and the national security adviser, H.R. McMaster, as advocating it.

The reports come after months of mixed messages and dozens of shifts in the US's stance on North Korea.

The bloody-nose strategy, which calls for a sharp, violent response to some North Korean provocation, puts a lot of weight on the US's properly calibrating an attack on North Korea and Pyongyang's reading the limited strike as anything other than the opening salvo of an all-out war.

For that reason, even the limited strike envisioned by North Korea hawks carries a tremendous risk of global — and possibly nuclear — catastrophe.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tillerson-mattis-trump-north-korea-strike-2018-1

 

[SlyPokerDog]

A US strike would mean it implicitly trusts that North Korea's leader, Kim Jong Un, wouldn't escalate it into an all-out war that could kill millions.

If they don't think NK will retaliate then there isn't a valid reason to attack.

Countries are allowed to arm themselves.

The only reason we would attack if we really believe they won't they won't respond is because Trump is butthurt over their statements about him.

Not a valid reason for war.

 

[theprunetang]

 

[MARIS61]

A US strike would mean it implicitly trusts that North Korea's leader, Kim Jong Un, wouldn't escalate it into an all-out war that could kill millions.
http://www.businessinsider.com/tillerson-mattis-trump-north-korea-strike-2018-1

President Trump has been very clear that he's not a "measured-response" pussy who would risk American lives in a war.

If we attack NK, it will be an all out assault of epic proportions that destroys their ability to do much of anything ever again.

Rocket Man would be one of the first dead and his country decimated, as President Trump has promised, so he ain't gonna be escalatin' nothin'.

 

[e_blazer]

President Trump has been very clear that he's not a "measured-response" pussy who would risk American lives in a war.

If we attack NK, it will be an all out assault of epic proportions that destroys their ability to do much of anything ever again.

Rocket Man would be one of the first dead and his country decimated, as President Trump has promised, so he ain't gonna be escalatin' nothin'.

Man, you must have TRUMP tattooed on your ass.

 

[MARIS61]

If they don't think NK will retaliate then there isn't a valid reason to attack.

Countries are allowed to arm themselves.

The only reason we would attack if we really believe they won't they won't respond is because Trump is butthurt over their statements about him.

Not a valid reason for war.

Circular illogic. You claim the only reason to attack is so they will retaliate?

Rocket Man has sworn he will nuke America and it's allies. He said he will kill my family and yours. Not if attacked first, but just because.

In light of this credible threat, which most sane people acknowledge is very real, we are within our rights to erase NK from the face of the Earth.

I really don't have a problem with US killing NK's leaders, military, and anyone else who gets in the way.

It would prevent future, greater conflicts across the globe.

 

[MARIS61]

Man, you must have TRUMP tattooed on your ass.

Not one to get tatted, but I do share his logical approach to self-preservation.

Clinton, Bush and Obama's cowardice has enabled NK and Iran to nuke up and try to blackmail us.

Never mind political hyperbole about leaving our grandchildren with a huge unpayable debt (from Obamacare).

Those three failures left my grandchildren facing hostile nukes.

 

[e_blazer]

Not one to get tatted, but I do share his logical approach to self-preservation.

Clinton, Bush and Obama's cowardice has enabled NK and Iran to nuke up and try to blackmail us.

Never mind political hyperbole about leaving our grandchildren with a huge unpayable debt (from Obamacare).

Those three failures left my grandchildren facing hostile nukes.

War with North Korea would have an unknown number of ways it could go sideways and escalate in ways that scare the crap out of military planners. Tough talk and macho posturing could get a lot of people killed. I’d like to have confidence in our leaders at this juncture. I don’t.

 

[theprunetang]

I wonder how China would react to this.
I am legitimately curious.

 

[Further]

Even if we NK did not attack SK, Japan or any other friendly nation, war with them would mean total decimation. There are 25 million North Koreans. That's 25 million people. twenty fucking five million real people.

 

[Stevenson]

President Trump has been very clear that he's not a "measured-response" pussy who would risk American lives in a war.

Well, chalk up one more lie. Many, many Americans lives will be at risk, likely dead.

 

[MARIS61]

War with North Korea would have an unknown number of ways it could go sideways and escalate in ways that scare the crap out of military planners. Tough talk and macho posturing could get a lot of people killed. I’d like to have confidence in our leaders at this juncture. I don’t.

I do.

 

[MARIS61]

Well, chalk up one more lie. Many, many Americans lives will be at risk, likely dead.

Past cowardly Presidents put them at risk, they are being threatened as we speak.

Clinton lied, Bush lied, Obama lied.

 

[MARIS61]

Even if we NK did not attack SK, Japan or any other friendly nation, war with them would mean total decimation. There are 25 million North Koreans. That's 25 million people. twenty fucking five million real people.

Clearly their fault.

25 million silent gutless cowards permitting a madman to use their country to threaten world war.

They need to suck it up and revolt, or pay for their silent approval of his actions.

 

[e_blazer]

Clearly their fault.

25 million silent gutless cowards permitting a madman to use their country to threaten world war.

They need to suck it up and revolt, or pay for their silent approval of his actions.

As opposed to 300 million here?

 

[Natebishop3]

If all you old bastards are so keen on going to war with NK, you can feel free to go over there and fight. The rest of us will stay here and protect your women.

 

[SportsAndWhine]

As opposed to 300 million here?

*pauses from twisting rags into vodka bottles long enough to give you a thumbs up and slow nod* Aye, comrade.

 

[crandc]

Despite hostilities and military exercises, the two countries had a modus vivendi since the Korean War. Not great, but not a shooting war and certainly not a nuclear war. Along comes Trump with his 6th grade taunts and now talk of war for no reason. At a time when the two Koreas are talking, if not peace, at least detente.

 

[Nate]

As opposed to 300 million here?

And that’s what finally killed Maris....

 

[tlongII]

Hyperbole

 

[Shaboid]

 

[MARIS61]

If all you old bastards are so keen on going to war with NK, you can feel free to go over there and fight. The rest of us will stay here and protect your women.

Wow, you really don't understand what women want.

 

[Natebishop3]

Wow, you really don't understand what women want.

They're huge fans of their men leaving for long periods of time, which is why Dear John letters aren't a real thing...... right?

 

[MARIS61]

Despite hostilities and military exercises, the two countries had a modus vivendi since the Korean War. Not great, but not a shooting war and certainly not a nuclear war. Along comes Trump with his 6th grade taunts and now talk of war for no reason. At a time when the two Koreas are talking, if not peace, at least detente.

All true, except your entire post which is all false.

NK has never kept their word nor followed even one of the multiple agreements signed over my lifetime.

Learn at least a smidgeon of political history first, then post.

 

[stampedehero]

Just when NK and SK are trying to resolve matters by including the North in border phone communications and the Olympic games, TNT for Trump can't keep his hands off his button in the pants.

 

[stampedehero]

Clearly their fault.

25 million silent gutless cowards permitting a madman to use their country to threaten world war.

They need to suck it up and revolt, or pay for their silent approval of his actions.

They need an Iranian leftist newspaper. Perhaps all of them are completely hypnotized and starved. Peter Green> "hypnotized"-a super fabulous song.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Despite hostilities and military exercises, the two countries had a modus vivendi since the Korean War. Not great, but not a shooting war and certainly not a nuclear war. Along comes Trump with his 6th grade taunts and now talk of war for no reason. At a time when the two Koreas are talking, if not peace, at least detente.

Um, it was a shooting war. As recently as 2010, NK sunk a SK warship in SK waters. We stood down the entire 7th Fleet last year when one of our ships bumped another ship in the night and killed 10 sailors...but in 2010/11 we bowed to Chinese sentiment and general clownshoery of the UN when the NKs capped off a winter of small-scale naval "battles" (Daecheong 1 and 2) and artillery barrages against our allies with the sinking of the Cheonan. 46 sailors were killed and a destroyer sunk.
What this rhetoric seems to have done is a) embolden our SK ally, b) show Russia and China that we're not the predictable "strategically patient" administration that we were for the last decade or two, c) tell the world we don't necessarily care what they think when it comes to our security interests, and d) work. As you point out, when the Koreans are talking, there isn't generally nuclear testing or missile testing going on. President Park stopped talking in 2016 and has since been embolded to talk as a peer rather than a subordinate.

That said, the NKs have carried out 5 more nuclear tests in the last decade than the rest of the world combined. Sanctions didn't work. Resolutions haven't worked. Tweeting may not work. But to say that it's made a decent situation worse is...probably not accurate.

 

[Minstrel]

What this rhetoric seems to have done is a) embolden our SK ally, b) show Russia and China that we're not the predictable "strategically patient" administration that we were for the last decade or two, c) tell the world we don't necessarily care what they think when it comes to our security interests, and d) work. As you point out, when the Koreans are talking, there isn't generally nuclear testing or missile testing going on. President Park stopped talking in 2016 and has since been embolded to talk as a peer rather than a subordinate.

This is way beneath you, Brian. If the Olympics in South Korea had happened a few years ago and the two sides had decided talk a bit after Obama said (or tweeted) a few positive sentiments, you'd spit ridicule upon anyone who tried to suggest that correlation implied causation and Obama's twitter or press release diplomacy had "worked."

You simply prefer bellicose aggression (as I see it) to "namby pamby liberal let's-talk-it-out" sentiment (as you see it) and are seizing on a convenient confluence of events to offer a twist of logic that I'm sure even you don't seriously credit in your own mind in order to push your preferred narrative.