Time to complete the clear out

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cpawfan

cpawfan

Monsters do exist
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Now is the time to trade RJ. With a 23 PPG scoring average and 35% from 3, Thorn should be able to get some real value for him.

Portland has a lot of pieces and draft choices and needs a solid veteran SF to complete their starting lineup.

Sacramento will need a SF to replace Artest, although there would have to be a 3rd team involved to get salaries to match up.

Minnesota has Ratliff's expiring contract and while that doesn't seem likely, it is McHale.
 
I don't get it. Is there an age limit on how old players should be in the rebuilding process? 27 is too old?

We should trade a 27 year old known proven scorer for parts we hope turn into that in 3 or 4 years?

He's only 3 years older than Harris and Nenad. Carter I could see being mentioned but not RJ.
 
youre crazy , if anything hes the only player I would keep from this current roster, hes only 27 and getting better.

we have to build around him and harris
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Feb 14 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't get it. Is there an age limit on how old players should be in the rebuilding process? 27 is too old?

We should trade a 27 year old known proven scorer for parts we hope turn into that in 3 or 4 years?

He's only 3 years older than Harris and Nenad. Carter I could see being mentioned but not RJ.</div>

I rather trade Carter too but RJ would get the most back, plus hes overpaid too.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GM3 @ Feb 14 2008, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Feb 14 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't get it. Is there an age limit on how old players should be in the rebuilding process? 27 is too old?

We should trade a 27 year old known proven scorer for parts we hope turn into that in 3 or 4 years?

He's only 3 years older than Harris and Nenad. Carter I could see being mentioned but not RJ.</div>

I rather trade Carter too but RJ would get the most back, plus hes overpaid too.
</div>

I think RJ is overpaid too. And as Cpawfan mentioned he'll bring back as much as he can for his value.

Thorn can wait on Carter as he might not even bring back Ratliff now.

-Petey
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GM3 @ Feb 14 2008, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Feb 14 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't get it. Is there an age limit on how old players should be in the rebuilding process? 27 is too old?

We should trade a 27 year old known proven scorer for parts we hope turn into that in 3 or 4 years?

He's only 3 years older than Harris and Nenad. Carter I could see being mentioned but not RJ.</div>

I rather trade Carter too but RJ would get the most back, plus hes overpaid too.
</div>
Get back what? young pieces you hope develop into 23ppg scorers? You have that and he's only 27. I think it will frustrate the hell out of the players like Nenad and Harris if they have to hand hold youngsters. They aren't developed enough themselves to do that.

Players like Lebron, Roy, Paul and Wade that are advanced beyond their years don't fall into every teams lap.

Orlando is young and near the end of their rebuilding and they have Lewis and Turkoglu who are 1 year older than Jefferson.

If it's because you think he's overpaid... I get that argument, but you need some player to help players like Sean, Nenad and the others.

I kind of hope the one thing that helps this team is RJ instilling the intensity and will to win that Kidd brought to this franchise. It's a torch I think needs to be passed.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Feb 14 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't get it. Is there an age limit on how old players should be in the rebuilding process? 27 is too old?

We should trade a 27 year old known proven scorer for parts we hope turn into that in 3 or 4 years?

He's only 3 years older than Harris and Nenad. Carter I could see being mentioned but not RJ.</div>

You move the pieces you can move. RJ's salary isn't conducive to rebuilding the Nets but he should be able to bring back some real value.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 14 2008, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Feb 14 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't get it. Is there an age limit on how old players should be in the rebuilding process? 27 is too old?

We should trade a 27 year old known proven scorer for parts we hope turn into that in 3 or 4 years?

He's only 3 years older than Harris and Nenad. Carter I could see being mentioned but not RJ.</div>

You move the pieces you can move. RJ's salary isn't conducive to rebuilding the Nets but he should be able to bring back some real value.
</div>
hmm. I would wait til the offseason. If we get Harris and Miller I'd be interested in seeing how the team plays out. If we still sucked I'd say definately move RJ too. If however we showed promise then I would say unless we're blown away by an offer we should keep him.

I do think we should see what Carter's value is during this offseason. I guarantee there will be at least one Western Conference team interested in getting better, and the Cavs will also be players with lots of expiring contracts.
 
Francisco Garcia
Andrew Bogut
Ronnie Brewer
Linas Kleiza
Martell Webster

All guys I wouldn't mind here for him in a package.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Feb 14 2008, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GM3 @ Feb 14 2008, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Feb 14 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't get it. Is there an age limit on how old players should be in the rebuilding process? 27 is too old?

We should trade a 27 year old known proven scorer for parts we hope turn into that in 3 or 4 years?

He's only 3 years older than Harris and Nenad. Carter I could see being mentioned but not RJ.</div>

I rather trade Carter too but RJ would get the most back, plus hes overpaid too.
</div>
Get back what? young pieces you hope develop into 23ppg scorers? You have that and he's only 27. I think it will frustrate the hell out of the players like Nenad and Harris if they have to hand hold youngsters. They aren't developed enough themselves to do that.

Players like Lebron, Roy, Paul and Wade that are advanced beyond their years don't fall into every teams lap.

Orlando is young and near the end of their rebuilding and they have Lewis and Turkoglu who are 1 year older than Jefferson.

If it's because you think he's overpaid... I get that argument, but you need some player to help players like Sean, Nenad and the others.

I kind of hope the one thing that helps this team is RJ instilling the intensity and will to win that Kidd brought to this franchise. It's a torch I think needs to be passed.
</div>

I'm certainly not convinced that RJ will remain a 23 PPG scorer over the next few seasons nor am I convinced that he'll remain healthy. That is why I am suggesting trading him now.

I realize this is a pipe dream as Thorn has demonstrated no interest in trading players at their peak value and then there are the marketing considerations.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 14 2008, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Feb 14 2008, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GM3 @ Feb 14 2008, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Feb 14 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't get it. Is there an age limit on how old players should be in the rebuilding process? 27 is too old?

We should trade a 27 year old known proven scorer for parts we hope turn into that in 3 or 4 years?

He's only 3 years older than Harris and Nenad. Carter I could see being mentioned but not RJ.</div>

I rather trade Carter too but RJ would get the most back, plus hes overpaid too.
</div>
Get back what? young pieces you hope develop into 23ppg scorers? You have that and he's only 27. I think it will frustrate the hell out of the players like Nenad and Harris if they have to hand hold youngsters. They aren't developed enough themselves to do that.

Players like Lebron, Roy, Paul and Wade that are advanced beyond their years don't fall into every teams lap.

Orlando is young and near the end of their rebuilding and they have Lewis and Turkoglu who are 1 year older than Jefferson.

If it's because you think he's overpaid... I get that argument, but you need some player to help players like Sean, Nenad and the others.

I kind of hope the one thing that helps this team is RJ instilling the intensity and will to win that Kidd brought to this franchise. It's a torch I think needs to be passed.
</div>

I'm certainly not convinced that RJ will remain a 23 PPG scorer over the next few seasons nor am I convinced that he'll remain healthy. That is why I am suggesting trading him now.

I realize this is a pipe dream as Thorn has demonstrated no interest in trading players at their peak value and then there are the marketing considerations.
</div>
Also with the focus with dealing Kidd, possibly trading Vince and also making a play for Mike Miller I don't believe Thorn is interested in trying to get rid of RJ.

The more I think about it, I think the Mike Miller thing is actually probable. There have been rumors everywhere that if Jermaine O'neal is healthy by the deadline than he would be traded for Vince. My only reason for not believing that to be possible is because of the huge hole we'd have at SG if we completed that trade. If however we got Miller then we'd have a replacement for Vince and O'neal would make sense.
 
I also believe that without Kidd, RJ will struggle to get easy shots and will have an even higher turnover number per game than he already has. I don't see him as being a #1 option on the any NBA team. Why keep him otherwise?
 
I want RJ to get traded, so badly.

I mean, look at players like Travis Outlaw. You see that kid, he's like, what, 22? He's still developing. Coming into the NBA, he had no jumpshot. Now, imagine getting him, and possible other great pieces to go along with him in a trade for RJ.

Imagine having Travis Outlaw develop into a 20 ppg scorer (VERY possible) to go along with athleticism, better defense, etc. right before our eyes as we're rebuilding.

I'm wishing and praying for a trade of RJ for Outlaw to happen.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 14 2008, 02:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I want RJ to get traded, so badly.

I mean, look at players like Travis Outlaw. You see that kid, he's like, what, 22? He's still developing. Coming into the NBA, he had no jumpshot. Now, imagine getting him, and possible other great pieces to go along with him in a trade for RJ.

Imagine having Travis Outlaw develop into a 20 ppg scorer (VERY possible) to go along with athleticism, better defense, etc. right before our eyes as we're rebuilding.

I'm wishing and praying for a trade of RJ for Outlaw to happen.</div>

I'd like that, too. We'd also get a handful of picks. From what I understand, if Portland uses all their picks--they have four, I think--they'll have something like 20 players under contract for next year. Even if we just grabbed their two very early second-round picks, that could have value.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 14 2008, 12:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Francisco Garcia
Andrew Bogut
Ronnie Brewer
Linas Kleiza
Martell Webster

All guys I wouldn't mind here for him in a package.</div>
agreed
 
How about Jefferson to Sacramento for Artest, Kenny Thomas, and the Kings' 2008 first round pick (which will be a lottery pick)? The Kings are desperate to dump Thomas' contract, which runs through 2009-10 at an ending salary of 8.75 Million. Artest will likely opt out of his contract after this season, possibly leaving the Kings with nothing if they don't get something for him now. And, even if he doesn't opt out, it ends next year at a reasonable 7.4 million and the Nets would have some sign and trade leverage in either event.

The important thing about the Thomas contract is when it ends, 2010, just before the Nets would want to go after a major free agent, be it James or Wade or Bosh (all of whom have player options for that year they are likely to decline if they don't sign extensions before then). Mike Miller's contract also ends in 2010. So if the Nets make these three trades before the deadline (Kidd, Jefferson, Boki+Magloire for Miller), and disregarding other possible deals between now and then, the payroll would still see a dump of about 18.7 M in the summer of 2010.

Jefferson's contract, by contrast, goes through 2011, including its 15 million final player option year, which Jefferson will almost certainly exercise. Doing the above deals frees up at least an extra 3.7 million in salary. On the other hand, Jefferson could be the key to getting numbers to work in a sign and trade for James in 2010. So there are arguments for and against.

But I like the idea of getting Sac's lottery pick this year. Yes it's bound to be mid first round, but you never know. Nets are due for some good luck. And, in any event, whatever ThornKiki can parlay from 2 first rounders in 2008 (the 3rd will have gone to Memphis for Miller) and 2 in 2009 sounds pretty good in addition to a core group that would include, for the near future:

Carter, Harris, Krstic, Miller, S. Williams, Boone, M. Williams, and at least one of Swift and Diop plus at least one significant free agent signing between now and then using money freed up by Artest's departure.

On one hand, this deal sounds like we wouldn't get enough back for a very athletic guy that is currently among the top 10 NBA scorers. But I really fear his productivity and efficiency as a scorer is about to plummet. It's already been decreasing in recent weeks, as the standard deviation from his career numbers was just too high to sustain and as Kidd's dropoff was already affecting Jefferson. If Toronto was any indication, he is REALLY going to struggle after the Kidd deal. And I agree that it's best to get something for him before that happens. His salary is going to severely limit the options.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 14 2008, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Feb 14 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't get it. Is there an age limit on how old players should be in the rebuilding process? 27 is too old?

We should trade a 27 year old known proven scorer for parts we hope turn into that in 3 or 4 years?

He's only 3 years older than Harris and Nenad. Carter I could see being mentioned but not RJ.</div>

You move the pieces you can move. RJ's salary isn't conducive to rebuilding the Nets but he should be able to bring back some real value.
</div>

To what end? who? Elton Brand? or some other flawed All-Star?

Thorn does not APPEAR to planning a complete rebuilding job. How can he? What's the marketing message next year: "Watch us rebuild for a better place!"

There are economic realities at stake here. When your team is losing $20 million plus (you can find the number in the filings with the SEC) and has the heavist debt load in professional sports...as a percentage of team value...you're not going to clear out.

It's easy to move JKidd and spin it: he was dogging it, faking injuries, to get out. After that, it gets a lot more difficult.
 
rj has plateued, he will only regress from hear on out especially without kidd, thorn would be wise to understand this and move him as well because without kidd, RJ will be exposed as a highly priced role player and his value will drop and make it worse with his crappy contract
 
If we can snag a first round pick (unprotected - increase our chance at Rose), and expiring contracts I'm for it. But I'd rather deal VC off though. And I want us to continue losing and losing. I could care less for the playoffs. I want Derrick Rose on this club more than anything. He is the future #1 PG in this league, surpassing Paul and Deron. I might be overhyping him, but he is the real deal. I don't like the idea of Harris as our PG anyways. He is a combo guard.

And while I'm at it, I would trade RJ for picks, expiring deals and maybe a young player. I would then package VC with Krstic for expiring contracts and picks as well. Only way we deal VC is by including a guy like Krstic. Plus with SWAT and Boone; Krstic is now expendable. And after the Kidd deal, I'd see if Miami would bite on a Marcus/Hassell for JWilliams salary dump deal.

Blow it up!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 17 2008, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>rj has plateued, he will only regress from hear on out especially without kidd, thorn would be wise to understand this and move him as well because without kidd, RJ will be exposed as a highly priced role player and his value will drop and make it worse with his crappy contract</div>
RJ's contract ends the same year Lebron becomes a free agent, so does Mike Miller's and Jermaine O'neals two players we are apparently attempting to get...it doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that Management is trying to aquire young talent like Boone, Sean, Devin and Marcus and contracts that expire the same season Lebron and Dwade and many more become Free Agents.

Which is also the year we are moving to Brooklyn...a major market where players get paid much more in advertisements, like 100 million more...

I'm just saying.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Feb 17 2008, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 14 2008, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Feb 14 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't get it. Is there an age limit on how old players should be in the rebuilding process? 27 is too old?

We should trade a 27 year old known proven scorer for parts we hope turn into that in 3 or 4 years?

He's only 3 years older than Harris and Nenad. Carter I could see being mentioned but not RJ.</div>

You move the pieces you can move. RJ's salary isn't conducive to rebuilding the Nets but he should be able to bring back some real value.
</div>

To what end? who? Elton Brand? or some other flawed All-Star?

Thorn does not APPEAR to planning a complete rebuilding job. How can he? What's the marketing message next year: "Watch us rebuild for a better place!"

There are economic realities at stake here. When your team is losing $20 million plus (you can find the number in the filings with the SEC) and has the heavist debt load in professional sports...as a percentage of team value...you're not going to clear out.

It's easy to move JKidd and spin it: he was dogging it, faking injuries, to get out. After that, it gets a lot more difficult.
</div>

As I said, this is a pipe dream. The Ratner Nets are not about making the best basketball decisions. Marketing is the #1 concern. Additionally, Thorn isn't one to trade a player at their peak value.
 
What about Carter and Swift for Larry Hughes, Ira Newble, Devin/Shannon Brown, Boobie Gibson and a pick or two?

Blow. It. Up.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 17 2008, 10:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Feb 17 2008, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 14 2008, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Feb 14 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't get it. Is there an age limit on how old players should be in the rebuilding process? 27 is too old?

We should trade a 27 year old known proven scorer for parts we hope turn into that in 3 or 4 years?

He's only 3 years older than Harris and Nenad. Carter I could see being mentioned but not RJ.</div>

You move the pieces you can move. RJ's salary isn't conducive to rebuilding the Nets but he should be able to bring back some real value.
</div>

To what end? who? Elton Brand? or some other flawed All-Star?

Thorn does not APPEAR to planning a complete rebuilding job. How can he? What's the marketing message next year: "Watch us rebuild for a better place!"

There are economic realities at stake here. When your team is losing $20 million plus (you can find the number in the filings with the SEC) and has the heavist debt load in professional sports...as a percentage of team value...you're not going to clear out.

It's easy to move JKidd and spin it: he was dogging it, faking injuries, to get out. After that, it gets a lot more difficult.
</div>

As I said, this is a pipe dream. The Ratner Nets are not about making the best basketball decisions. Marketing is the #1 concern. Additionally, Thorn isn't one to trade a player at their peak value.
</div>

Realistically, most fans require some continuity to continue to root for a team. Not everyone roots solely for the laundry. Trading RJ and/or Carter would present a problem with retaining those fans. The players with the longest service would be free-agent-to-be Boki (who may be gone by the end of the week), followed by Boone and Marcus! To a GM, that has to be a consideration.

edit: I guess the Net with the most service time would be KVH, definitionally.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 14 2008, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Feb 14 2008, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GM3 @ Feb 14 2008, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Feb 14 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't get it. Is there an age limit on how old players should be in the rebuilding process? 27 is too old?

We should trade a 27 year old known proven scorer for parts we hope turn into that in 3 or 4 years?

He's only 3 years older than Harris and Nenad. Carter I could see being mentioned but not RJ.</div>

I rather trade Carter too but RJ would get the most back, plus hes overpaid too.
</div>
Get back what? young pieces you hope develop into 23ppg scorers? You have that and he's only 27. I think it will frustrate the hell out of the players like Nenad and Harris if they have to hand hold youngsters. They aren't developed enough themselves to do that.

Players like Lebron, Roy, Paul and Wade that are advanced beyond their years don't fall into every teams lap.

Orlando is young and near the end of their rebuilding and they have Lewis and Turkoglu who are 1 year older than Jefferson.

If it's because you think he's overpaid... I get that argument, but you need some player to help players like Sean, Nenad and the others.

I kind of hope the one thing that helps this team is RJ instilling the intensity and will to win that Kidd brought to this franchise. It's a torch I think needs to be passed.
</div>

I'm certainly not convinced that RJ will remain a 23 PPG scorer over the next few seasons nor am I convinced that he'll remain healthy. That is why I am suggesting trading him now.

I realize this is a pipe dream as Thorn has demonstrated no interest in trading players at their peak value and then there are the marketing considerations.
</div>


Why is RJ more likely to be injured than other guys?

While I agree he's overpaid, I'm not sure it matters that much with respect to rebuilding.
1. Even without Kidd, from what I understand I don't think the Nets would be much below the cap anyway, so trading RJeff doesn't really help get them anything additional.
2. Even if they did, would what they get back be better in the long run than him?

I tend to think having some stability moving forward would be more beneficial than a complete clearing of the decks (which won't happen anyway). I'd certainly move him if the offer was good enough, but I wouldn't count on a great offer either.

On the other hand, I'd take even moderate savings to be rid of Carter were I the Nets. Or perhaps they take a chance on swapping him for a guy like Randolph, who, while a total clown, isn't a completely washed up total clown.
 
RJ and DA to Golden State for Monta Ellis, Al Harrington and Brandan Wright.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Feb 18 2008, 11:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>RJ and DA to Golden State for Monta Ellis, Al Harrington and Brandan Wright.</div>

Why on earth would Golden State do that? They ship out the best player in the trade and the two players much better than DA
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MikeDC @ Feb 18 2008, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why is RJ more likely to be injured than other guys?

While I agree he's overpaid, I'm not sure it matters that much with respect to rebuilding.
1. Even without Kidd, from what I understand I don't think the Nets would be much below the cap anyway, so trading RJeff doesn't really help get them anything additional.
2. Even if they did, would what they get back be better in the long run than him?

I tend to think having some stability moving forward would be more beneficial than a complete clearing of the decks (which won't happen anyway). I'd certainly move him if the offer was good enough, but I wouldn't count on a great offer either.

On the other hand, I'd take even moderate savings to be rid of Carter were I the Nets. Or perhaps they take a chance on swapping him for a guy like Randolph, who, while a total clown, isn't a completely washed up total clown.</div>

I can't take anyone seriously that suggests swapping Vince for Zach
 
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