Tonight Solidified It For Me..

[PapaG]

Blake's role could (IMHO) been just as capably (if not moreso) filled by Webster, Rudy or Batum.

Rudy and Outlaw. The other two you mentioned have never proven that they can be counted on at the end of a close game to hit big shot. Not even mentioning Outlaw is hilarious, BTW.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Perhaps. And perhaps they don't. Which is why you see a lot of Nate angst on here.

I'll guarantee you that for each 14-point 4th quarter he's played (and good for him! And to Nate for keeping with the hot hand) I can point out an instance where Blake shouldn't have been in the game and played poorly. You're usually above one-game told-ya-so's, but maybe after seeing some of the other threads you wanted to chime in?

 

[PapaG]

Perhaps. And perhaps they don't. Which is why you see a lot of Nate angst on here.

I'll guarantee you that for each 14-point 4th quarter he's played (and good for him! And to Nate for keeping with the hot hand) I can point out an instance where Blake shouldn't have been in the game and played poorly. You're usually above one-game told-ya-so's, but maybe after seeing some of the other threads you wanted to chime in?

I see a lot of Nate angst here because people think that they know how to coach the team better than Nate. I then laugh at the logical pretzels that people must then make to continue the over-the-top and silly Nate-bashing when Nate shows he is one of the better coaches in the NBA. Imagine had Nate been healthy during the road trip when the team went 1-3. Does that become a 3-1 or 4-0 trip?

Good times.

 

[PapaG]

Perhaps. And perhaps they don't. Which is why you see a lot of Nate angst on here.

I'll guarantee you that for each 14-point 4th quarter he's played (and good for him! And to Nate for keeping with the hot hand) I can point out an instance where Blake shouldn't have been in the game and played poorly. You're usually above one-game told-ya-so's, but maybe after seeing some of the other threads you wanted to chime in?

You surmised that any of 3 players could have scored 14 points in the 4th quarter last night, as if what BLANKY did was easily replaced. I say it isn't easily replaced.

Plus, now that BLANKY is nearing 40% on 3pt for the year, I have to give Nate credit for sticking with him while the jackals of the internet were bashing both guys for months.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Rudy and Outlaw. The other two you mentioned have never proven that they can be counted on at the end of a close game to hit big shot. Not even mentioning Outlaw is hilarious, BTW.

Uh, until otherwise shown he's out for the year, while the others are projected back in Jan and Feb. It's "hilarious" that he wasn't mentioned? Really? I guess you're projecting both that he'll be back soon, and that his 20% 3pt shooting in clutch time will go up by around double?

The other two I mentioned have not been in games at the end of close games to "hit the big shot". Perhaps that's another case for you to say that Nate's omniscient and we're all clueless.
Because Blake was gangbusters last year in crunch time.

Wait:
In crunch time last year Blake was 35% from the field and 29% from 3, with an a/to < 2. 12 pts per 48 min.

Or this year: (with thanks to Boob-no-more)
where his clutch-time shooting is now 27%?

If you don't think that Rudy and/or Webster and/or Batum will be a better weapon in crunch time than Blake is, then we'll just have to disagree.

 

[PapaG]

Uh, until otherwise shown he's out for the year, while the others are projected back in Jan and Feb. It's "hilarious" that he wasn't mentioned? Really? I guess you're projecting both that he'll be back soon, and that his 20% 3pt shooting in clutch time will go up by around double?

The other two I mentioned have not been in games at the end of close games to "hit the big shot". Perhaps that's another case for you to say that Nate's omniscient and we're all clueless.
Because Blake was gangbusters last year in crunch time.

Wait:
In crunch time last year Blake was 35% from the field and 29% from 3, with an a/to < 2. 12 pts per 48 min.

Or this year: (with thanks to Boob-no-more)
where his clutch-time shooting is now 27%?

If you don't think that Rudy and/or Webster and/or Batum will be a better weapon in crunch time than Blake is, then we'll just have to disagree.

What does Webster's clutch shooting look like? How about Batum? You didn't mention Outlaw because you can't stand him. This is well-known. The problem for you is, Outlaw has shown that he can hit big shots in the 4th quarter of close games. Webster/Batum have not.

Now, continue to make your argument if you want, but mention Webster without mentioning Outlaw is a reach, especially considering that even this year, Outlaw has a higher 3pt % than the "shooter" Webster.

 

[PapaG]

The other two I mentioned have not been in games at the end of close games to "hit the big shot". Perhaps that's another case for you to say that Nate's omniscient and we're all clueless..

Yet you stated that either of them could just of "capably" filled BLANKY'S role last night. Based on what? Your personal opinion, apparently.

 

[BrianFromWA]

You surmised that any of 3 players could have scored 14 points in the 4th quarter last night, as if what BLANKY did was easily replaced. I say it isn't easily replaced.

Plus, now that BLANKY is nearing 40% on 3pt for the year, I have to give Nate credit for sticking with him while the jackals of the internet were bashing both guys for months.

Fine. Blanky's never scored 24 in a quarter, ergo Webster should be in there for firepower in the 4th. Is that a logical pretzel?

I say it is easily replaced (that Rudy is a better shooter, and that Webster and Batum are at the very least comparable, but bring much more value to the team defense than Blake).

So let me get this straight....Nate's been bashed for a) Playing Blanky too much at the exclusion of other, better options at guard....b) for either telling his players not to run or not doing anything about it when they don't....c) starting Blanky when there are other, better options at guard...and d) not staying with the hot hand so that he can substitute someone (usually Blanky) back in to do basically nothing.

Injuries have now forced Nate to an 8-man rotation where he plays his best players heavy minutes (Blake being one of those top 8 now...not so much when our team is healthy). Injuries have forced him to play Bayless more, which increases the number of "easy baskets" we're getting (including Blake's wide-open threes last night, which thankfully he hit). He has stopped starting Blanky. And last night he continued with the hot hand (Miller/Webster in the 3rd, Blake in the 4th) instead of sticking with his set substitutions.

Nate was great last night. So was Blake. Amazingly enough, it was due to Nate doing many of the things that those clueless internet dolts who think they can coach better than Nate and Roy have been talking about for months and years, and Blake doing well at the one thing he does well. Good for both. Your point trying to bash people on the internet who may or may not have a clue about basketball, though, seems off.

 

[PapaG]

Fine. Blanky's never scored 24 in a quarter, ergo Webster should be in there for firepower in the 4th. Is that a logical pretzel?

I say it is easily replaced (that Rudy is a better shooter, and that Webster and Batum are at the very least comparable, but bring much more value to the team defense than Blake).

So let me get this straight....Nate's been bashed for a) Playing Blanky too much at the exclusion of other, better options at guard....b) for either telling his players not to run or not doing anything about it when they don't....c) starting Blanky when there are other, better options at guard...and d) not staying with the hot hand so that he can substitute someone (usually Blanky) back in to do basically nothing.

Injuries have now forced Nate to an 8-man rotation where he plays his best players heavy minutes (Blake being one of those top 8 now...not so much when our team is healthy). Injuries have forced him to play Bayless more, which increases the number of "easy baskets" we're getting (including Blake's wide-open threes last night, which thankfully he hit). He has stopped starting Blanky. And last night he continued with the hot hand (Miller/Webster in the 3rd, Blake in the 4th) instead of sticking with his set substitutions.

Nate was great last night. So was Blake. Amazingly enough, it was due to Nate doing many of the things that those clueless internet dolts who think they can coach better than Nate and Roy have been talking about for months and years, and Blake doing well at the one thing he does well. Good for both. Your point trying to bash people on the internet who may or may not have a clue about basketball, though, seems off.

The clueless internet dolts who have been crying for BLANKY to be benched, or even flat-out RENOUNCED last summer? If Nate had listened to them, BLANKY wouldn't even have been in the game last night.

 

[BrianFromWA]

What does Webster's clutch shooting look like? How about Batum? You didn't mention Outlaw because you can't stand him. This is well-known. The problem for you is, Outlaw has shown that he can hit big shots in the 4th quarter of close games. Webster/Batum have not.

Now, continue to make your argument if you want, but mention Webster without mentioning Outlaw is a reach, especially considering that even this year, Outlaw has a higher 3pt % than the "shooter" Webster.

WEBSTER IS HEALTHY AND AVAILABLE TO NATE. OUTLAW IS PROBABLY OUT FOR THE YEAR. That reason and that reason alone is enough for me to not write about him in a "what happens to Blake when the injured players start coming back" thread. Sorry if it doesn't for you, but that's not my issue to deal with.

Yes, I can't stand players who are injured.

Travis shot 20% last year from 3 when fully healthy in his crunch time minutes. Are you going to neglect all my posts from last year that "hated that" (since it's so well-known, maybe you think it's a given?).

Once again, I mention Batum and Webster and Rudy because they are all capable of shooting 3 pointers at a reasonably good percentage and have proven that over full seasons of work. Blake is also in that conversation, while Outlaw is not due to his injury. If he was not injured, then I would probably advocate him playing over Blanky as well. But he is. (FTR, I would also play Oden and Przybilla more than Blake. Should I discuss that, too?) Blake is productive when he does well the one thing he does well. He's now shooting 37% on the year at it. (Webster's at 36.6%, Rudy's at 38.8%. Batum was 36.9% last year) Unfortunately, he has not shown a propensity to do that in crunch time (29% last year, 25% in 2007-08. BTW, Webster wasn't good in 2007 either at 10% in limited minutes.)
In conclusion, all of the players currently healthy or expected to be back by the ASG (Webster, Rudy, and Batum) have comparable percentages to Blake in the one thing Blake does well, but Webster and Batum bring defensive pressure, Rudy brings playmaking ability and team D, and Blake, well, doesn't seem to much. It's my contention that when the injured players start coming back (and I'll even include outlaw if he comes back soon) Blake's minutes should be the ones that go down. To continue the trend of "when the best players play, the team plays better".

 

[BrianFromWA]

The clueless internet dolts who have been crying for BLANKY to be benched, or even flat-out RENOUNCED last summer? If Nate had listened to them, BLANKY wouldn't even have been in the game last night.

Correct. Imagine if we'd listened to the internet dolts and had around 18M in cap space. Maybe Paul Millsap or David Lee or Emeka Okafor is playing instead of Pendergraph last night. Come to think of it, maybe THAT'S why KP's hand were tied.

To rehash this again, I'm happy that Blake's playing when he's one of the best 8 players we have left. I'm happy that he pulled it out last night, and that Nate kept him in. My Personal Opinion is that when Rudy comes back, Rudy is a player who should be playing instead of Blake. When Batum comes back My Personal Opinion is that Batum is a player who should be playing instead of Blake. When Outlaw or Oden comes back, My Personal Opinion is that they should be playing instead of Blake. With the injuries, his amount of playing time is fine and I'm happy that he made the most of it yesterday. Not so much in the 10 or so games before (other than the 4-7 in PHX), though, right?

 

[PapaG]

WEBSTER IS HEALTHY AND AVAILABLE TO NATE. OUTLAW IS PROBABLY OUT FOR THE YEAR. That reason and that reason alone is enough for me to not write about him in a "what happens to Blake when the injured players start coming back" thread. Sorry if it doesn't for you, but that's not my issue to deal with.

Yes, I can't stand players who are injured. .

Yet you mentioned Batum.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Did you not see the post that Batum should be back by the ASG? That seems to meet with the "players coming back soon" point of the thread, as opposed to other players who won't.

 

[PapaG]

Did you not see the post that Batum should be back by the ASG? That seems to meet with the "players coming back soon" point of the thread, as opposed to other players who won't.

You posted that Batum could have capably filled in for BLANKY. How was he going to do that while sitting in a suit last night?

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

.....back to my original posting (ranking of players with the highest-to-lowest trade value):


Several factors played into my rankings (and note, the entire roster was ranked from "most likely to be traded" to "least likely."


Factors:

Past play

Recent play

Contract Status!!

Postion (1 - 5)

Team "Need" short term/long term


With the above considered, I chose RUDY as the most likely to be the most likely to be traded, and Roy to be the least likely.

With my list of inactive players - same idea. Outlaw ranked as my most likely to be traded and Oden, the least likely.


I assume that (realistically) only "healthy" players will get moved in the short term. However, an injured player (perhaps?) might be part of a trade, etc.


Here it is one more time:

In order: [of the healthy] All rhyme and reasoning considered:

Rudy #1

Blake #2

Miller #3

Webster #4

Cunningham #5

Howard #6

Pendergraph #7

Aldridge #8

Bayless #9

Roy #10



.... and of the injured, who is the most likely to be traded (for all ryhmes and reasons):


Outlaw #1

Pryzbilla #2

Mills #3

Batum #4

Oden #5



With the above noted, I think we look to trade Rudy plus picks for a big:

Lee? Okafor? Gortat?

 

[maxiep]

I don't know what we would do if everyone was healthy tomorrow.

How do you justify removing Juwan Howard from the starting line up?

Simple. You just say "Sorry, Michigan, but Ohio State is better."

 

[maxiep]

Simple. You just say "Sorry, Michigan, but Ohio State is better."

With the addendum that Ohio State isn't as good as Oregon.