Top 5 Breakout Wing 2010-11

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Poor man's Ariza? Are you kidding me? Maybe I'm too much of a homer, but I would say Nic's defense is with Ariza and his ball handling, play making are better.
 
I'd say Batum was already at the level of or beyond Ariza at age 21. His upside is well beyond Ariza. I actually like Ariza as a player quite a bit, but I think he'll prove to be a poor man's Nic Batum.
 
I guess there are worse players to be compared to than Ariza and Jamario Moon.
 
Hahaha


That should slap some sense into people.


At least those that think Batum is the second coming of Scottie Pippen
 
Last year he was competing with Martell Webster, Travis Outlaw and Rudy Fernandez for minutes in Portland.
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Um, no he wasn't. He was injured for most of the year, and when he wasn't injured, he was clearly better than any of those other players (he and Outlaw were never even healthy at the same point last year). Clearly this guy didn't watch Batum play last year.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Hahaha


That should slap some sense into people.


At least those that think Batum is the second coming of Scottie Pippen
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What a dimemag opinion piece?

What is your "scout friends" take on Batum?

P.S. McMillan sucks!
 
andalusian said:
That's an Hahaha moment right there, just not at the people that love Batum...
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Other hahaha moments:

ORtg:
Batum 127
Ariza 99

OWS:
Batum 2.4
Ariza 0.1

WS/48
Batum 0.181
Ariza 0.058

Ariza played almost 3x (2.86x to be exact) the minutes Batum did, but Batum had 24x as many OWS (Offensive Win Shares). So, by that metric, Batum is already 68.7x the offensive player Ariza is.

Trevor Ariza would need a breakout season to be the next Nicolas Batum.

BNM
 
Reep said:
Poor man's Ariza? Are you kidding me? Maybe I'm too much of a homer, but I would say Nic's defense is with Ariza and his ball handling, play making are better.
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Actually, the stats say otherwise. Per 36, Ariza had twice as many assists as Batum.
 
This article could have been easily entitled "Underachieving Wings".
 
Mediocre Man said:
McMillan does suck, and my scout friend loves Batum. Although he thinks he is horribly misused.
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Your "scout friend" should have a job on the sidelines somewhere.

I think it was you who wanted Terry Porter as the coach a couple years back? The same Terry Porter who was ran out of Phoenix and can't even stick on as an assistant in the league these days.
 
Porter should be coach.

Or maybe Nate should have been fired after his second year? Porter has as good of a coaching record as Nate does, without the benefit of Kevin Pritchard landing a top 10 NBA player. While in Phoenix, Porter led them to a winning record beore being let go because the team didn't want to play defense.

Let's try not to derail the thread too much. Batum is the single most over rated player in the history of the Blazers. He is a nice young role player, and that's it.....at this point
 
Mediocre Man said:
Porter should be coach.

Or maybe Nate should have been fired after his second year? Porter has as good of a coaching record as Nate does, without the benefit of Kevin Pritchard landing a top 10 NBA player. While in Phoenix, Porter led them to a winning record beore being let go because the team didn't want to play defense.

Let's try not to derail the thread too much. Batum is the single most over rated player in the history of the Blazers. He is a nice young role player, and that's it.....at this point
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How is a player over rated when his hype is based upon his potential. Until he does (or doesn't) fulfill that potential then he isn't over rated he's just hyped. I think for his age, frame and abilities the hype is just.
 
ehizzy3 said:
how does he think he should be used??
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He says the Blazers would be a more dangerous team if Nic came off more picks and shot to the basket. Also thinks he "could" be a guy you could set up at the top of the key with the ball because of his ability to see over the defense and his abilty to handle the ball.

Right now Nic sets up in a corner and then either shoots or drives himself.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Let's try not to derail the thread too much. Batum is the single most over rated player in the history of the Blazers. He is a nice young role player, and that's it.....at this point
Click to expand...
so only Mediocre Man is allowed to throw out ridiculous hyperbole and determine the direction of a thread? As it's been demonstrated, this linked article and it's conclusions are a joke. You agreeing with it to laugh at posters took a 180 to pie you in the face. Thats not the thread being derailed, thats just how it is

Every player has a role. Some players initiate the offense, some man the paint, some remain ready on the bench. Nic's role is to start and guard the other team's best offensive threat 1-3 which he does probably better then any Blazer since PIP. On top of that he's become a very efficient shooter improving greatly from year 1 to 2. To have grabbed this major/important role and clearly trended up at the age of just 21 gives diehard fans some optimism for his future. Someone saying "meh, I don't agree" is fine, but someone laughing at others in agreement with a truly stupid article claiming it should "slap some sense into people" is going to turn the worm. That's it...

STOMP
 
Mediocre Man said:
He says the Blazers would be a more dangerous team if Nic came off more picks and shot to the basket. Also thinks he "could" be a guy you could set up at the top of the key with the ball because of his ability to see over the defense and his abilty to handle the ball.

Right now Nic sets up in a corner and then either shoots or drives himself.
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Nic's first season he was a (young) rookie.

So any idea that he SHOULD have had the ball in his hand is RETARDED.

As well, super-skinny, fragile looking rookie Nic in no way should have been asked to initiate a bunch of contact with the men of the NBA.

Flush that idea down the toilet.

On to season two - Nic gets hurt. Is out or playing injured for most of the season.

Asking Nic to initiate extra contact with other players is foolish.

Asking a hobbling Nic to initiate plays for the team when we have Roy and Miller who are far superior to Nic at this point, is foolish as well.

As well, if we had run a bunch of plays for Nic and had him handle the ball, both Rudy and Bayless would have gone into full implosion mode. High Risk, Low Reward plan.

Sorry, but I think your friend, assuming you are quoting him 100% accurately, is wrong about how Nic has been handled so far. Let's wait until we have a healthy, non-rookie Nic before we start bitching about the coaching staff and how the team is mis-handling Nic.

I know it is hard for you to wait until a sensible point in time before passing negative judgement on the coaching staff - but for god's sake, please try.
 
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Mediocre Man said:
Let's try not to derail the thread too much. Batum is the single most over rated player in the history of the Blazers. He is a nice young role player, and that's it.....at this point
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I know, why does your scout friend overrate Batum so much? Saying the rookie or second-year player who missed most of the season should have been initiating offense is pretty over the top. Have you laughed at your friend and told him how stupid he is? Even Nate McMuffin wouldn't make such a basic mistake.
 
STOMP said:
good grief... you're cackling in agreement with an idiotic opinion piece. Here's a stats link comparing Trev and Nic's 2009-10 seasons. For jelly belly laughs check out their respective TS%

STOMP
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Holy shit Batum is better then I thought!

http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=0&p1=batumni01&y1=2010&p2=pippesc01&y2=1989

If you compare Pippen and Batum, mind you Pippen was two years older in his second season, you will see that they aren't as far apart as many think. The biggest difference other then playoff performance, was in assist rate. Pippen edges Batum in some areas, but Batum is vastly more effective offensively. Their Drtg is virtually identical. Pippen is a slightly better rebounder, steals. Batum a vastly superior shooter and shot blocker. Pippen wins due to amazing playoff performance and vastly superior assist rate although that may have a lot to do with playing under Jackson's triangle and having a decent off guard to pass to. ;)
 
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Idog1976 said:
Holy shit Batum is better then I thought!

http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=0&p1=batumni01&y1=2010&p2=pippesc01&y2=1989

If you compare Pippen and Batum, mind you Pippen was two years older in his second season, you will see that they aren't as far apart as many think. The biggest difference other then playoff performance, was in assist rate. Pippen edges Batum in some areas, but Batum is vastly more effective offensively. Their Drtg is virtually identical. Pippen is a slightly better rebounder, steals. Batum a vastly superior shooter and shot blocker. Pippen wins due to amazing playoff performance and vastly superior assist rate although that may have a lot to do with playing under Jackson's triangle and having a decent off guard to pass to. ;)
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PIP got a whole lot better after the age of 21 years old. Though they might be comparable at that age, it's pretty unlikely that Nic's career will similarly blossom. If I recall correctly Scottie was a late bloomer in more ways then one starting college as the team manager and only about 6'

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
PIP got a whole lot better after the age of 21 years old. Though they might be comparable at that age, it's pretty unlikely that Nic's career will similarly blossom. If I recall correctly Scottie was a late bloomer in more ways then one starting college as the team manager and only about 6'

STOMP
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We'll see. The thing I love about Batum is his toolset as in physical gifts are really amazing. He actually reminds me of a very watered down Pippen/Clyde hybrid. He moves so much like Clyde probably like almost no one I've seen since the Glide. I'm NOT talking skillset although he is getting there on some things. I think Nicolas has an awesome attitude as well and really wants to get better. I have high hopes for him actually we'll see. I think our 3 spot is gonna be better then quite a few teams out there.
 
Batum is definitely not close to a star player right now. He just has the grace, intelligence and flow to his game that suggests that he's a major talent. It's pure amateur scouting on my part, but I think there are signs that point to significantly more than he has, as yet, demonstrated. Ultimately, production and defense are all that matter...not aesthetics like "grace," etc. But I think his tools and athleticism (and efficiency and defense at a young age) suggest a lot of upside, but he also has the undefinable "it" factor to me.

I don't think he'll be Scottie Pippen or Clyde Drexler (the odds are against almost any 21-22 year old becoming an inner circle Hall of Famer), but I think he has the upside to be a pretty special player.
 
zagsfan20 said:
I think it was you who wanted Terry Porter as the coach a couple years back? The same Terry Porter who was ran out of Phoenix and can't even stick on as an assistant in the league these days.
Click to expand...
Glass house anyone? Adam *cough* Morrison...
 
Minstrel said:
Batum is definitely not close to a star player right now. He just has the grace, intelligence and flow to his game that suggests that he's a major talent. It's pure amateur scouting on my part, but I think there are signs that point to significantly more than he has, as yet, demonstrated. Ultimately, production and defense are all that matter...not aesthetics like "grace," etc. But I think his tools and athleticism (and efficiency and defense at a young age) suggest a lot of upside, but he also has the undefinable "it" factor to me.

I don't think he'll be Scottie Pippen or Clyde Drexler (the odds are against almost any 21-22 year old becoming an inner circle Hall of Famer), but I think he has the upside to be a pretty special player.
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Agreed. With a bit of specificity on what "it" is... at least to me.

He seems like an AWARE player. Especially on defense, he tends to be in the right place at the right time. Pippen was remarkable for that, and it didn't matter if he was guarding Stockton or a small forward, he anticipated and used his length to be in position to cut quicker guys off and to play passing lanes.

I know that Batum took a lot of heat for his rookie summer league appearance, but I saw what I thought (hoped) was this awareness. Something that Outlaw has always been utterly lacking and that most players have significantly less of.

Of course, I didn't know that Batum could shoot from the perimeter like he's been able to, and I didn't know (don't know) that he'll continue to improve... but he's got a chance to be special, and that's a lot more than most NBA players at any age have going for them.

Ed O.
 
handiman said:
Glass house anyone? Adam *cough* Morrison...
Click to expand...

Is it beat the dead horse Adam Morrison night tonight?

That horse has been beaten to death. I believe MM was a staunch supporter of Morrison as well.
 
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