Trade=Why/What for?

[MARIS61]

If we do trade, what position are we looking to fill?

I don't see KP suddenly tossing the future away for a 1-shot at this year's title.

If our injured all return in optimum health this summer, where is the hole we're trying to fill with a trade now?

Still backup PF?

Still our next PG of the future?

 

[BrianFromWA]

Uh, Center is my guess. Maybe a 4 or 4/5, with LMA moving to center, but I'm not the hugest fan of that.

I don't care about who's returning this summer, I want the best effort to win a championship this year. And you don't have to "toss the future away". You have 8M in expiring contracts in Blake and Outlaw, 2 players who aren't exactly "critical" to the team's play this year. You have a logjam at guard, where Miller, Blake, Bayless, Roy and Rudy all think they should be getting big minutes. 3 of them will, which makes 2 extraneous.

If you really want Outlaw and Blake back later, sign them this summer.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

#1 on my list:

Troy Murphy
14 PPG 10 RPG / 29 years old

Why: Can start at Center right away and is a very good rebounder. Grabbing 10 per/game so far; averaged 12 per/game last year. Has range out to three-point and is consistent on this end. Has a PER of 18.4 with a USG% of 18.2. Compares favorably to LaMarcus.

 

[glazeduck]

Said this in another thread.

The get will be a bigman, either a 4 or a 5, but it'll be fairly minor -- a buy low deal if you will.

Without spending my entire weekend scouring the roster & salaries for every team, I can tell you off the top of my head that Outlaw for Brandon Bass works straight up. While I have no inclination whether Orlando would even consider it or not, Bass is certainly not getting ANY playing time lately, so trading him for Outlaw would essentially get them out of his contract for the next 3 or 4 years. If they wanted to resign Outlaw, he'd be a good paring w/ Pietrus off the bench, and clearly has value when healthy.

For us it would kill a couple birds w/ 1 stone. We'd get an ideal banger backup for LA for the future, and a tough, strong guy to help out Juwan, LA, and JP this season.

All in all though, I think it'll be a minor deal. Wouldn't even be shocked if it's Hilton Armstrong being moved again (or another deal similar to his). Really all we NEED is a stopgap bigman.

 

[anonymous gambler]

I say we're not looking at a position so much as at consolidating talent- if we can trade 2 players for a more talented player- it almost doesn't matter what position they play. Small forward and point guard would be ideal, but say we could get a Milsap type for Rudy/Outlaw...it'd be hard to pass up. I'd argue that a Bosh for Aldridge/Outlaw/pick would also be worthwhile.

 

[Further]

If we do trade, what position are we looking to fill?

I don't see KP suddenly tossing the future away for a 1-shot at this year's title.

If our injured all return in optimum health this summer, where is the hole we're trying to fill with a trade now?

Still backup PF?

Still our next PG of the future?

The one position needed now and next season is Center. First off, there is a good chance that Joel will never be the player he was. It's sad, and I hope I am wrong, but with his size and the pounding he takes, his latest injuries could greatly hinder his career.

And even if Joel does return, both he and Oden have shown themselves to be fragile. So getting a center will not just be a shot for today at the risk of the future, but a boon towards tomorrow as well.

And we do have a lot of redundancy that can be jettisoned to get that center without sacrificing our future.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I'd be in favor of going for a big who will be with us for awhile since I think counting on Oden/Przbilla more than 50% of the time is wishful thinking.


David Lee and Andris Biedrins are the first two to come to mind, we would need some kind of reassurance from Lee that he would be willing to resign with us. Hopefully we could get either for Outlaw, Rudy and a draft pick if necessary.

I'm OK with Brandon Bass also, although he is too small to fill in at center, but of course he could be had for less.

I think we still need a young PG who can play great defense and is outstanding at either scoring or distributing. There are plenty out there but I actually think teams would want back more than we would willing to give.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I think Lee is a pretty long shot. He can veto any trade, b/c he's giving up his Bird Rights.

 

[STOMP]

IF they are to do a trade, my guess is that it will be either a very minor one or a blockbuster. I can see them realigning their draft picks etc. or not passing up a big time player who becomes available to a team holding a real firesale. If it's the later scenario, it will be talent that they are after rather then a specific position.

STOMP

 

[Natebishop3]

I think we desperately need to thin our backcourt and add some depth to our frontcourt. Right now I would say either Rudy, Bayless, or Steve Blake needs to go. I have a feeling that Rudy is going to get the axe. We have three small forwards and three shooting guards (counting Bayless). I'm wondering if Rudy and Outlaw could net us something decent.

Honestly, I like what I'm seeing from Martell. I also like what he brings to the locker room. He's a light hearted guy. The team seems to like him. I would like to keep Martell and Batum and forget about trying to upgrade small forward.

The problem is this... over the past few games I've really liked what I've seen from Webster, Pendergraph, and Bayless. The only position of weakness right now is center, but hopefully with Greg and Joel coming back next year, we shouldn't need a center. I guess it depends on Joel's health. Greg should be ready by training camp, but what about Joel? Should we go for a big man just in case? Maybe Brendan Haywood isn't such a bad idea.

Send Rudy and Travis for Haywood.

Miller/Blake
Roy/Bayless
Webster/Batum
LMA/Pendergraph
Haywood/Oden/Przybilla (until guys get healthy)

I don't know.... should we try to upgrade the small forward spot while we have a chance or should we stick with that we've got? Are you sufficiently confident that Webster or Batum will end up our longterm answer that position? I feel like I am, but I also like the idea of adding Luol Deng.

 

[Nikolokolus]

A stop-gap center seems the most likely player to be traded for, but that doesn't mean a half season rental necessarily. I have pretty strong doubts that Joel will be ready to roll before the mid-point of next season, the recovery for the injury he sustained can be tricky and there's a lot of variability.

I know a lot of people are dead-set against trading away "the future" to get a guy like Haywood (for instance), but as far as I'm concerned adding a decent center is helping to ensure the future, especially since Oden has been so fragile, and even Joel has been tough to keep healthy throughout his career.

 

[shamelessblazer]

Either a longer term (2-4 years) fit who is versatile, doesn't need a lot of shots, and can bring some depth and something unique at the 3/4/5 spots.

Boris Diaw - 2 more years, overpaid and not producing now, but a very smart player, high defensive IQ, doesn't need shots, etc, buy low

Brandon Bass - tough as nails, works hard, not particularly skilled but with a decent mid-range J, aggressive on D. I think Pendergraph might be able to kind of fill this role though.

Outlaw or Blake straight up for Bass? - they get out of the contract



Or a short term fit, who is old and very smart, won't need lots of touches, and can add depth to Howard, Pendergraph, Aldridge, and Cunningham.

Kurt Thomas - decent floor spacer, still a very smart player and good post defender. Him and Juwan could each go 20 mpg instead of Juwan at 36 and it might be feasible. Might help young guys the same way Juwan is. Not needed in Milwaukee.

Outlaw/1st for Thomas/2nd (their second might be better than our first with non-guaranteed)

Marcus Camby - Better than Thomas, but just as old. Has a lot of value as an expiring deal for the clips, but if no one else is biting at the deadline might fit very well here. Though not a great post defender (his blocks were always weak-side) he'd be more than serviceable for this year.

Outlaw/Blake/Mills?/1st? for Camby - we'd have to give them something of value other than just swapping expirings, don't know what they'd want.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Just to throw some random oddities/possibilities out there....

Blake and Outlaw (7.6M combined expiring contracts) can bring back 9.6M in salary.
Miller and Przy (13.6 this year, 14.7 next year) can bring back 17.1M.
LMA (5.7 going out) has to bring back 12.1M.

Crazy trade coming up, leave now if you want:
LMA, Miller, Przy, Outlaw for McGrady, Landry, HOU 1st.

Looks severely lopsided to us. But for the rest of the year we have

Blake/Bayless/Mills
Roy/Rudy/McGrady
Webster/Batum
Landry/Cunningham
Howard/JP

Not gonna do a lot with that, though a smallball lineup could do some damage. But then, in FA period, we have

Bayless/Mills
Roy/Rudy
Webster/Batum
(Landry's Bird Rights)/Cunningham
Oden/JP
2 20-ish picks in the first round (say, Charles Garcia and Malcolm Lee or Dexter Pittman)

and only 36M (plus Landry's hold) in cap holds. That's enough to sign or trade outright for a max player. I don't think any other team can offer a max-caliber Free Agent the chance to play with Roy, Oden and Rudy.

 

[Natebishop3]

Just to throw some random oddities/possibilities out there....

Blake and Outlaw (7.6M combined expiring contracts) can bring back 9.6M in salary.
Miller and Przy (13.6 this year, 14.7 next year) can bring back 17.1M.
LMA (5.7 going out) has to bring back 12.1M.

Crazy trade coming up, leave now if you want:
LMA, Miller, Przy, Outlaw for McGrady, Landry, HOU 1st.

Looks severely lopsided to us. But for the rest of the year we have

Blake/Bayless/Mills
Roy/Rudy/McGrady
Webster/Batum
Landry/Cunningham
Howard/JP

Not gonna do a lot with that, though a smallball lineup could do some damage. But then, in FA period, we have

Bayless/Mills
Roy/Rudy
Webster/Batum
(Landry's Bird Rights)/Cunningham
Oden/JP
2 20-ish picks in the first round (say, Charles Garcia and Malcolm Lee or Dexter Pittman)

and only 36M (plus Landry's hold) in cap holds. That's enough to sign or trade outright for a max player. I don't think any other team can offer a max-caliber Free Agent the chance to play with Roy, Oden and Rudy.

Who would you target in free agency? LeBron? Bosh? Joe Johnson? Wade seems redundant with Roy around.

 

[BrianFromWA]

LBJ would be choice 1 if there was a chance in Hades he's coming here (newsflash: he isn't).
Bosh would be pretty good.
I'm not sold that Wade and Roy couldn't play together. Wade and K*be played well on the Olympic team.
Trading for CP3 isn't totally out of the question, though probably only slightly greater than LBJ.
Not Joe Johnson, though I like him a lot.

The way to go to not gamble would be to keep LMA and use him in a S&T to get one of the big money guys.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

It's highly unlikely we're going to trade to try and win a title this season. Too short sighted for a person like KP.

If we trade, we're just looking at PG, IMHO. Miller is getting old, Blake is a journeyman PG at best and who knows if Mills is the answer. But what we have seen is that when we have an effective PG as a QB and can control the tempo of the game, then we get our best results. The one & only person on this team with that ability is Miller. To find another like him will involve a trade.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Send Rudy and Travis for Haywood.

Probably the most sensible of the ideas that are out there, IMO.

Biggest downside is that it sends away our two biggest bench scorers; however, Blake seems to be thriving in that bench scorer role, Bayless is still developing in that regard as well, Cunningham has all the tools to provide what Travis did, and I believe that Batum will surprise people with what he can bring to the table offensively when he returns. I don't think our bench will have too much problem scoring, even without those two.

If the Wiz are down (and I would think they would be), I say make the deal.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

My second target would be Tyrus Thomas. His shotblocking and rebounding would be extremely valuable right now.

My third target is a prospect: Robin Lopez. He looks like he 7'2" (7'4" with the fro) and has potential on the defensive end. I've compared him to Przybilla since his freshman year at Stanford.

In order:

1) Troy Murphy
2) Tyrus Thomas
3) Robin Lopez

 

[PtldPlatypus]

My second target would be Tyrus Thomas. His shotblocking and rebounding would be extremely valuable right now.

My third target is a prospect: Robin Lopez. He looks like he 7'2" (7'4" with the fro) and has potential on the defensive end. I've compared him to Przybilla since his freshman year at Stanford.

In order:

1) Troy Murphy
2) Tyrus Thomas
3) Robin Lopez

Regarding Murphy, he makes over $11M, meaning we'd have to send out about 8.84M in salary to be able to bring him back. Whom would you want to send out for him?

Thomas only makes $4.7M, but the same question applies. Whom would you package to make an attractive offer for Thomas? Do you think Outlaw/Rudy would get it done?

Regarding Lopez, I have a feeling that Phoenix views him as their "Center of the future", so I don't see him as available.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

On a separate note, Dwight Jaynes is saying this morning that he covets David Lee. What would it take to get him?

Lee makes $7M, but is a BYC player, so it would need to be a package deal. He's also playing at an all-star level, so we'd probably have to take a non-expiring contract to get him. Of their two biggest, Curry's is so large as to be prohibitive for us, so it'd have to be Jeffries. He's at 6.46M, so the two combine to 13.46, meaning we'd have to send out about $10.8M to match salaries.

Obviously Blake/Outlaw's expirings would have to be included, but they only total 7.6M, so we'd need at least an additional 3.2M. Webster could do it, but would that be enough of a talent return for NY? Bayless + either Rudy or Batum would also get there, but that feels like too much, even if they included a #1.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I don't see a Lee trade happening, as much as I might want it.

 

[RR7]

Lee would almost have to be part of a 3 team trade. His BYC, combined with trying to take on Jeffries makes a deal really difficult to do. Even 3 team deals with that combo if fairly difficult.

 

[MIXUM]

Maris... trade for what??????????

Are you being serious?

um how about a center? have you watched games? im not shocked considering you didnt want to part with a below average PG in sergio who stunk. But dude... wake up and realize how badly this team needs a CENTER... YES A CENTER.

And careful with the Joel talk... we will be lucky to see him next xmas no less next year. And he wont be full strength till March if hes lucky. Oden .... who knows if he plays 10 games with his injury prone ass. Translation.... WE NEED A CENTER BADLY EITHER WAY. Really not a hard call by our worthless GM. infact its a no brainer.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Regarding Murphy, he makes over $11M, meaning we'd have to send out about 8.84M in salary to be able to bring him back. Whom would you want to send out for him?

Thomas only makes $4.7M, but the same question applies. Whom would you package to make an attractive offer for Thomas? Do you think Outlaw/Rudy would get it done?

Regarding Lopez, I have a feeling that Phoenix views him as their "Center of the future", so I don't see him as available.

I don't agree with that all, he's not a shooter, he's very limited offensively and he doesn't possess the raw speed and athleticism needed to play and be effective in their system. If anything I think he was seen as a potentially useful player to pick up in the middle of the first round when they seemed to be transitioning to a slower paced and more conventional style of play, and then when they reversed course and went right back to the run 'n' fun Suns pre Porter, pre Shaq, I think Robin became much less integral.

Even the rumored move of Frye to the bench and Lopez into their starting lineup is mostly seen as a stopgap measure, partly because Lopez matches up better with the Grizz, and frankly Channing's shot has gone cold lately.

All that said, personally, I'm not a huge fan of Lopez's game, he's not exactly an elite rebounder (his career rebound rate is below LMA's, who gets raked for his lack of intensity in this area) and about the only thing he does do pretty well is block shots and take up some space in the post on defense, Maybe he's got some room to improve and would do better in a slowed down system, but I'd barely rate him above Jeff Pendergraph as a center and that's only because he's a true 7 footer and he's a year younger.

 

[MrJayremmie]

I'd definitely go for either Bass, Turiaf, or Landry. Then i'd also go for a Devin Harris (tough) or Aaron Brooks (tough). Then a Prince (who may be available) or Battier (who also may be available). PG, SF and PF -- the positions I feel we need.

I wouldn't mind doing a nice trade with Houston and give up a Rudy and even Webster and Blake/Bayless/Miller and get a Battier/Landry.

Rudy, Miller, Bayless, Webster, Outlaw/Blake/Joel and a 1st for Battier/Landry and Brooks (tough chance they would be willing to trade Brooks, who is becoming a star, but still... getting a SG they need badly + Miller and Bayless to fill that PG spot would be nice -- they also have Ariza at SF so Battier is possible attainable, as well as they have Scola and Hayes at PF, so Landry is attainable).

I'm a fan of Brooks. Devin Harris and him are probably my top 2 players i'd want right now (of course not counting people like Rose, Paul, Williams, etc...).

My $.02... carry on.

 

[cdub503]

any way we can trade for ben wallace? or is he overpaid as shit still?

 

[BrianFromWA]

He's making the minimum

 

[number 10]

David Lee and Andris Biedrins are the first two to come to mind, we would need some kind of reassurance from Lee that he would be willing to resign with us. Hopefully we could get either for Outlaw, Rudy and a draft pick if necessary.

Biedrins was my pick at C as well. He's still young, he's locked up to a non-awful contract, and he can rebound like crazy. God knows what Golden State want though, this was my best attempt.

Anyone know what Memphis' plan with Thabeet is? Because if/when Gasol becomes available, he'd be perfect.

 

[MIXUM]

my god i still cant believe the title of this thread. LMAO... go watch todays game maris... and come back and tell me what we need!


other then rudy and bayless to make shots..... what were we missing big guy? thats a hint.

 

[shamelessblazer]

Biedrins was my pick at C as well. He's still young, he's locked up to a non-awful contract, and he can rebound like crazy. God knows what Golden State want though, this was my best attempt.

Anyone know what Memphis' plan with Thabeet is? Because if/when Gasol becomes available, he'd be perfect.

Marc Gasol is killing it for Memphis, I don't think there's any way he's available, though I think he'd fit perfectly.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Biedrins was my pick at C as well. He's still young, he's locked up to a non-awful contract, and he can rebound like crazy. God knows what Golden State want though, this was my best attempt.

I think that Blake, Outlaw and Rudy for just Biedrins works also.