Unarmed South Florida man with hands up shot by police while calming autistic patient

[SlyPokerDog]

NORTH MIAMI, FLA. (WSVN) - A therapist who works with people with disabilities is telling his story after he said police shot him while he was trying to help his patient with autism.

Cellphone video was released Wednesday afternoon showing Charles Kinsey lying on the ground with his hands in the air, telling officers that weapons are not necessary. “When I went to the ground, I’m going to the ground just like this here with my hands up,” Kinsey said, “and I am laying down here just like this, and I’m telling them again, ‘Sir, there is no need for firearms. I’m unarmed, he’s an autistic guy. He got a toy truck in his hand.”

In his hospital bed, Kinsey said, he was attempting to calm an autistic patient who ran away from a group home. Kinsey could be heard in the video saying, “All he has is a toy truck. A toy truck. I am a behavior therapist at a group home.”

He is also heard asking his patient to calm down. “Rinaldo, please be still, Rinaldo. Sit down, Rinaldo. Lay on your stomach.”

The ordeal went on for a few minutes before Kinsey said one of the officers shot him. “I’m like this right here, and when he shot me, it was so surprising,” Kinsey said. “It was like a mosquito bite, and when it hit me, I’m like, ‘I still got my hands in the air, and I said, ‘No I just got shot! And I’m saying, ‘Sir, why did you shoot me?’ and his words to me, he said, ‘I don’t know.'”

North Miami Police said the incident began, Monday, when someone called 911 and said there was a man walking around with a gun threatening suicide. Kinsey said the man was his patient and the alleged gun was a toy truck, which he said was clearly visible to police. “I was really more worried about him than myself. I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking, they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong.”

http://wsvn.com/news/local/video-shows-moments-before-north-miami-police-shot-unarmed-man/

 

[Denny Crane]

In before someone blames BLM.

 

[blue32]

Wow....

 

[SlyPokerDog]

In before someone blames BLM.

BLM is the one saying, "Hands Up, Don't Shoot." Obviously that is bad advice.

 

[Celtic Fan]

that's fucked up and indefensible.

 

[Denny Crane]

BLM is the one saying, "Hands Up, Don't Shoot." Obviously that is bad advice.

It's good advice.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

"I'm like, 'Sir, why did you shoot me?'" Kinsey said he asked the officer.
"He said to me, 'I don't know.'"

Kinsey was shot in his right leg after officers fired two or three shots, according to Napoleon.

After the shooting, Kinsey told WSVN he was flipped over and handcuffed.

According to Napoleon, Kinsey laid on the ground for 20 minutes before an ambulance arrived on the scene.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

that's fucked up and indefensible.

What? I don't know isn't a good defense?

What is a good defense? I thought you were Osama Bin Laden?

 

[rasheedfan2005]

the fuck? if this happened as reported then i definitely cant defend the cop on this one. he needs to be fired and jailed for attempted murder

 

[Celtic Fan]

What? I don't know isn't a good defense?

What is a good defense? I thought you were Osama Bin Laden?

there is no defense the police can present for shooting an obviously unarmed man who was no threat whatsoever.

 

[blue32]

the fuck? if this happened as reported then i definitely cant defend the cop on this one. he needs to be fired and jailed for attempted murder

Yeah, pretty much. Reminds me of the show "The Wire" when the one cop gets his gun taken away, then ends up shooting another undercover cop by accident when he was chasing a suspected drug dealer.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

there is no defense the police can present for shooting an obviously unarmed man who was no threat whatsoever.

I know, was being sarcastic.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Someone needs to get fired for this. Inexcusable. The guy was autistic with a fucking toy in his hand; no officer thought to step forward, even with him at gun point, and verify that it was a toy and not a weapon?

I am the biggest supporter of LE on this board. But this was strait-up bullshit. Calm the fuck down, listen to the guy, use your eyes and ears, and break down the situation in a calm and reasonable manner.

This is a classic example of a bunch of street/beat cops with no leader amongst them. A leader would have taken charge of this situation and would have been the sole communicator, instead of a bunch of guys screaming commands from all different directions without listening to what the guy was saying. You can't listen or hear people if everyone is screaming at the same time!

It has nothing to do with racism in this case, and everything to do with incompetence.

All of this being said, I want to know, detail by detail, what exactly led up to all of this. What was the original call? Who reported it? Did the person reported have a history of breakdowns? Was he known to police? Did he demonstrate anything that would have suggested to them that he was armed? Does he have a history of being physically violent (his mental disorders notwithstanding)?

I had a child living in the apartment above me who was severely Autistic. Jesus Christ....she was a loud, very spontaneously violent child for someone so small. My cracked ceiling is evidence of that. I don't blame her, or the guy in this video, in the least. They can't help it. But at the same time, I can understand why cases like this need to be dealt with very specifically.

Obviously, however, this was not the way to handle this. A proper leader should have taken charge of this situation and reduced the tension.

 

[Hobbesarable]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/us/miami-officer-involved-shooting/index.html

From CNN

North Miami police said an officer opened fire after attempting to negotiate.

Negotiating with the man lying in the street with his hands clearly raised in the air or with the autistic boy sitting on the ground playing with his toy truck?

Seriously, wtf!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I seriously doubt the autistic kid had a Concealed Toy Truck Permit. If you're going to be out in public without a CTTP you deserve what you get.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I sometimes get the feeling it's going to have to get so extreme that it's going to literally take a cop caught on camera executing a kneeling man from behind like this

Before anything of significance happens to change police culture.

(Of course, I'm sure some authoritarian somewhere will say the two men had it coming for indecent exposure in a park).

 

[Jade Falcon]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/us/miami-officer-involved-shooting/index.html

From CNN

Negotiating with the man lying in the street with his hands clearly raised in the air or with the autistic boy sitting on the ground playing with his toy truck?

Seriously, wtf!

What WE saw was a guy laying down with his hands raised next to an Autistic person........AFTER he was shot.

I want to know what the situation was like BEFORE the video starts. What was he doing? And what SPECIFICALLY caused the officers to open fire at him?

 

[Nikolokolus]

What WE saw was a guy laying down with his hands raised next to an Autistic person........AFTER he was shot.

I want to know what the situation was like BEFORE the video starts. What was he doing? And what SPECIFICALLY caused the officers to open fire at him?

Itchy trigger finger after 5 dead officers in the last week?

 

[Jade Falcon]

Itchy trigger finger after 5 dead officers in the last week?

8, not 5. And I hope you aren't making light of tensions among police after such tragedies by stating "itchy trigger finger"?

 

[Hobbesarable]

What WE saw was a guy laying down with his hands raised next to an Autistic person........AFTER he was shot.

I want to know what the situation was like BEFORE the video starts. What was he doing? And what SPECIFICALLY caused the officers to open fire at him?

The following video has narration describing the incident timeline according to WSVN Channel 7 News in Miami.

 

[Denny Crane]

I seriously doubt the autistic kid had a Concealed Toy Truck Permit. If you're going to be out in public without a CTTP you deserve what you get.

Silly congress won't pass "sensible" toy truck control laws.

 

[Jade Falcon]

The following video has narration describing the incident timeline according to WSVN Channel 7 News in Miami.

Thank you. So pretty much what we already suspected: someone called 9-1-1 worried that someone had a gun and was a danger to themselves and/or the public.

I can only speculate that, from a distance (it didn't appear that there was a cop closer than 60 feet), the shiny long object in the man's hand MAY have given the police suspicion that it might have been a firearm.

Obviously, again: better communication could have avoided all of this nonsense.

Unfortunately, many police officers are going to be wound up after last week's murders in Dallas and Baton Rouge. But I think they went quite a bit extreme here. But I would encourage the public to understand that, when the police show up to situations involving guns, that they are taking extra caution and measures. It's all too easy after these ambushes to see that a 9-1-1 caller could lead responding police into an ambush.

I think, therefore, that we have to acknowledge that they just aren't taking any chances, and that it's REALLY not the time to fuck around with them. I am NOT saying that's what happened here. But if it's something I could say to the public, it would be this: cooperate COMPLETELY, do NOT play SJW with them while they have their guns drawn on you, and be vigilant.

 

[Denny Crane]

The police need to stop assuming the worst about people. They don't need to go into every situation with guns drawn. They certainly don't need to point guns at a guy who's laying in the street with his hands up and in plain view.

The cops brought guns to a toy truck fight.

 

[Jade Falcon]

The police need to stop assuming the worst about people. They don't need to go into every situation with guns drawn. They certainly don't need to point guns at a guy who's laying in the street with his hands up and in plain view.

The cops brought guns to a toy truck fight.

I agree that they need to, in many cases, use a bit more common sense. Like in this case.

However, police are the way they are, and the policies that govern them are the way they are, because of what's happened recently. A complacent officer is a dead officer. It's better to have your gun drawn and not need it, than to need it and have to draw it.

Police Departments SOP have been shaped in this country because of lessons learned from the crimes of the past. That's simple common sense and reform. Expecting police to become less confrontational is unrealistic.

 

[Denny Crane]

I agree that they need to, in many cases, use a bit more common sense. Like in this case.

However, police are the way they are, and the policies that govern them are the way they are, because of what's happened recently. A complacent officer is a dead officer. It's better to have your gun drawn and not need it, than to need it and have to draw it.

Police Departments SOP have been shaped in this country because of lessons learned from the crimes of the past. That's simple common sense and reform. Expecting police to become less confrontational is unrealistic.

It looks more like a vicious spiral. The more the cops use violence, the more those who feel occupied are going to resist violently.

 

[Jade Falcon]

It looks more like a vicious spiral. The more the cops use violence, the more those who feel occupied are going to resist violently.

I wish I had an easy answer. I'm sure we all do.

 

[Minstrel]

However, police are the way they are, and the policies that govern them are the way they are, because of what's happened recently. A complacent officer is a dead officer. It's better to have your gun drawn and not need it, than to need it and have to draw it.

Police Departments SOP have been shaped in this country because of lessons learned from the crimes of the past. That's simple common sense and reform. Expecting police to become less confrontational is unrealistic.

Then tensions will remain high and both unarmed civilians and cops will continue to be shot.

That said, I think it's perfectly realistic for police to become less confrontational. There's been real police reform in various places around the country, and it's been working to reduce violence altogether in those places. It'll take time, but eventually the authoritarian police hardliners in other places will be replaced by police chiefs who actually want to make the entire situation better, rather than seeing their job as protecting the image of every officer under their jurisdiction, whether or not they're in the wrong.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Then tensions will remain high and both unarmed civilians and cops will continue to be shot.

That said, I think it's perfectly realistic for police to become less confrontational. There's been real police reform in various places around the country, and it's been working to reduce violence altogether in those places. It'll take time, but eventually the authoritarian police hardliners in other places will be replaced by police chiefs who actually want to make the entire situation better, rather than seeing their job as protecting the image of every officer under their jurisdiction, whether or not they're in the wrong.

Sure. Until one of their own is shot and/or killed on the job. And then out come the SWAT teams and armored vehicles. And I believe such response is reasonable, depending on the situation.

rather than seeing their job as protecting the image of every officer under their jurisdiction, whether or not they're in the wrong

There's one problem I have with this statement: what about those officers who do their jobs, who do it legally, and who do it correctly.....yet are still rail-roaded by political activists, politicians, and Social Justice Couch Warriors? What about them? Why can't the police chiefs protect their own in the face of such pre-judgement propaganda?

In many cases, I've heard of good officers doing their jobs, only to have their "Progressive Chiefs" kick them to the curb in the name of either politics or social pressures. And that's just wrong.

The "hardliner chiefs" are the ones who protect the good cops, and who tell the politicians to go fuck themselves. If I'm a cop....I know who I want in my corner.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I am pretty pro police when it comes to all these things, but seriously? That cop needs to be terminated immediately and brought up on attempted murder charges.

Killings last week or not, his job is to protect and to serve. That man had his hands up and was in absolutely no position to cause harm to the police

 

[Minstrel]

Sure. Until one of their own is shot and/or killed on the job. And then out come the SWAT teams and armored vehicles. And I believe such response is reasonable, depending on the situation.

That's akin to saying that black people should justifiably be more confrontational with police after incidents like this. The instinct may be to become more violent, but humans don't have to operate purely on instinct--that's why policies aimed at lowering confrontation are necessary.

Why can't the police chiefs protect their own in the face of such pre-judgement propaganda?

The ones I'm talking about "protect" their own well after all the facts are out, opposing any and all attempts to prosecute the cops, etc. They're impediments to justice, operating on the principle that the cop is always right.

A lot of non-cops operate on the same principle.