Urban Planning in Portland

[Eastoff]

I thought I'd share this nice piece about Urban planning in Portland.

http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-...keynote_on_how_portland_can_become_great.html

 

[maxiep]

Not bad, but not enough emphasis on real jobs. All of the major developments downtown are either government, residential or retail. Those are all industries that rely on already created wealth. We need industries that will create wealth for the rest of the city. We can't build an economy on coffee shops and second hand boutiques.

 

[Eastoff]

Not bad, but not enough emphasis on real jobs. All of the major developments downtown are either government, residential or retail. Those are all industries that rely on already created wealth. We need industries that will create wealth for the rest of the city. We can't build an economy on coffee shops and second hand boutiques.

Thanks for the response. I was mostly curious to hear your opinion, but I didn't think I should call you on it.

You have got me wondering about the notion of restaurant employees keeping other restaurants afloat from buying their food. There is a limited amount of true production in the city itself.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

We can't build an economy on coffee shops and second hand boutiques.

But... small business owners!

 

[Natebishop3]

Portland gets way too much credit for it's planning. I sit in class and listen to this shit all day. We are way overhyped.

 

[maxiep]

But... small business owners!

There are all kinds of small businesses. We have too many of the kind I described and not enough of the ones who innovate and create wealth. What we do have is a thriving advertising and product design industry.

I'd like to see us do more Silicon Valley type of stuff. We attract those kinds of people. I think the idea of SoWa being an incubator for biotech is a novel idea.

 

[Eastoff]

I think the idea of SoWa being an incubator for biotech is a novel idea.

Could you expand on this please?

 

[maxiep]

Could you expand on this please?

There are certain industries that benefit from a relationship with a university (Stanford/Silicon Valley, MIT/Route 128, etc.). Biotech is one of them. If the state can get a return by helping some of these business along, then it help captures some value that would have left. The state offers a critical mass of lab space, researchers, data, office space, etc. and gets a piece of the business in exchange.

 

[Eastoff]

There are certain industries that benefit from a relationship with a university (Stanford/Silicon Valley, MIT/Route 128, etc.). Biotech is one of them. If the state can get a return by helping some of these business along, then it help captures some value that would have left. The state offers a critical mass of lab space, researchers, data, office space, etc. and gets a piece of the business in exchange.

Who is SoWa though? South Washington?

 

[e_blazer]

Portland gets way too much credit for it's planning. I sit in class and listen to this shit all day. We are way overhyped.

I'm curious. Do you mean the City of Portland or the Oregon land use planning system in general?

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm curious. Do you mean the City of Portland or the Oregon land use planning system in general?

Portland mostly. I think we have some great things in place, like the Urban Growth Boundary, but we get way too much credit for our mass transit, and our bike riding is horribly planned as well. There are much better examples of urban planning in Europe, or even South America. We just happen to be one of the best in the US, which isn't saying much.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

There are all kinds of small businesses. We have too many of the kind I described and not enough of the ones who innovate and create wealth.

Yeah, but wealth for whom? http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/09/10/pay-gap-richest-poorest/2793343/

 

[maxiep]

Who is SoWa though? South Washington?

South Waterfront. OHSU's new campus.

 

[e_blazer]

Portland mostly. I think we have some great things in place, like the Urban Growth Boundary, but we get way too much credit for our mass transit, and our bike riding is horribly planned as well. There are much better examples of urban planning in Europe, or even South America. We just happen to be one of the best in the US, which isn't saying much.

Mass transit and bicycles are both a situation where planning has to be done in a retrofitting kind of a way in a city like Portland. Like most west coast cities, and unlike Europe, Portland pretty much abandoned mass transit with the rise of private auto use in post World War II period. Highways and freeways multiplied and people began moving to the suburbs for cheaper housing on bigger lots. Trying to retrofit to accommodate those modes of transportation now is expensive, piecemeal, and disruptive to existing neighborhoods.

 

[Natebishop3]

Mass transit and bicycles are both a situation where planning has to be done in a retrofitting kind of a way in a city like Portland. Like most west coast cities, and unlike Europe, Portland pretty much abandoned mass transit with the rise of private auto use in post World War II period. Highways and freeways multiplied and people began moving to the suburbs for cheaper housing on bigger lots. Trying to retrofit to accommodate those modes of transportation now is expensive, piecemeal, and disruptive to existing neighborhoods.

But that's the thing, Portland gets a lot of credit for it's mass transit and bike lanes, but we still have a ton of traffic and congestion. I've always felt like it's just a feather in the cap that they like to point to. Ridership of our transportation is minimal. Very little effect on the overall traffic congestion in our city. Bike ridership is also very low compared to the big picture.

The UGB is great, and it has helped to keep our downtown vibrant and centralized, but most of the things that we've spent billions on over the years (IE MAX) are largely unsuccessful and pointless.

Also, extremely cost-ineffective. TriMet doesn't sustain itself. Not even close.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Ridership of our transportation is minimal.

Where the hell do you get that impression? Certainly not from riding it every day.

 

[Natebishop3]

Where the hell do you get that impression? Certainly not from riding it every day.

The Oregonian released some figures last year. I'd have to go look it up.

 

[e_blazer]

But that's the thing, Portland gets a lot of credit for it's mass transit and bike lanes, but we still have a ton of traffic and congestion. I've always felt like it's just a feather in the cap that they like to point to. Ridership of our transportation is minimal. Very little effect on the overall traffic congestion in our city. Bike ridership is also very low compared to the big picture.

The UGB is great, and it has helped to keep our downtown vibrant and centralized, but most of the things that we've spent billions on over the years (IE MAX) are largely unsuccessful and pointless.

Also, extremely cost-ineffective. TriMet doesn't sustain itself. Not even close.

I could spend hours telling you the multiple ways in which the land use planning system is totally screwed up. I have a Masters in Urban Planning and have spent three and half decades working in the trenches of Oregon's land use system. Portland has exactly the kind of transportation system that was planned for. The Transportation Planning Rule was pretty well designed with the intent to ensure that the freeways and arterial road systems would be over capacity. It was done in order to try to motivate people to use the mass transit systems that they planned to spend billions of dollars building.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Once gas hits $KILL a gallon in the post-apocalypse, we'll be glad for our MAX!

 

[maxiep]

Portland mostly. I think we have some great things in place, like the Urban Growth Boundary, but we get way too much credit for our mass transit, and our bike riding is horribly planned as well. There are much better examples of urban planning in Europe, or even South America. We just happen to be one of the best in the US, which isn't saying much.

There's a balance between urban planning and population control. Europeans are much more comfortable with having their lives dictated to them than are we. It's the reason they're more comfortable with mass transit, while we cherish our cars.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm trying to find the Oregonian article, but here are a couple that give some numbers.

"Remember last year’s high gas prices that led some transit agencies to record 15 to 20 percent gains in ridership? Oregon had some of the highest gas prices in the nation, yet Portland transit ridership only grew by 0.1 percent. So much for Portland being “the city that loves transit.”

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/debunking-portland-public-transit-myth

Overall, 21 percent of commuters who work in Seattle (regardless of where they live) commute by transit, compared to 12 percent in Portland.

http://www.seattlemet.com/news-and-...e-uses-transit-more-but-use-drops-with-income

 

[e_blazer]

Once gas hits $KILL a gallon in the post-apocalypse, we'll be glad for our MAX!

Yeah, if you happen to live on a MAX line and are interested in going to downtown. Somehow, taking a bus to the nearest MAX line and then making 4 connections by bus to get to an appointment doesn't work for me. But, as a self-employed individual who works from home, I do get the privilege of paying a percentage of my income to support the system that doesn't do diddly for me.

 

[Natebishop3]

I could spend hours telling you the multiple ways in which the land use planning system is totally screwed up. I have a Masters in Urban Planning and have spent three and half decades working in the trenches of Oregon's land use system. Portland has exactly the kind of transportation system that was planned for. The Transportation Planning Rule was pretty well designed with the intent to ensure that the freeways and arterial road systems would be over capacity. It was done in order to try to motivate people to use the mass transit systems that they planned to spend billions of dollars building.

I'm doing an undergrad in geography, but I'll be doing a masters in urban planning. I just spent a lot of time around people championing Portland and I just don't see it. It's a lot of window dressing, but the actual nitty gritty isn't that great. I'm interested in a place like Curitiba, Brazil though, as an example of how a city was properly designed for mass transit.

 

[e_blazer]

Here's a link to TriMet's annual report on ridership:

http://trimet.org/pdfs/publications/trimetridership.pdf

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Yeah, if you happen to live on a MAX line and are interested in going to downtown. Somehow, taking a bus to the nearest MAX line and then making 4 connections by bus to get to an appointment doesn't work for me. But, as a self-employed individual who works from home, I do get the privilege of paying a percentage of my income to support the system that doesn't do diddly for me.

I was making a joke.

 

[e_blazer]

I'm doing an undergrad in geography, but I'll be doing a masters in urban planning. I just spent a lot of time around people championing Portland and I just don't see it. It's a lot of window dressing, but the actual nitty gritty isn't that great. I'm interested in a place like Curitiba, Brazil though, as an example of how a city was properly designed for mass transit.

It sounds to me like you could be setting yourself up for the same frustrating/rewarding career path that I followed. I ultimately decided that the system was screwed up and that it would kill me to try to work within the bureaucracy. I chose to go the consultant route and help people navigate the maze of red tape, public hearings and other land use hoopla.

 

[e_blazer]

I was making a joke.

I know...you just happened to hit on one of my many sore points.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Where the hell do you get that impression? Certainly not from riding it every day.

I have to partially agree. At least the route I ride every day on the MAX is at pretty high capacity when I get on around 8-9 and 5-6. But relative to the amount of commuters in cars it's not much.

 

[Natebishop3]

It sounds to me like you could be setting yourself up for the same frustrating/rewarding career path that I followed. I ultimately decided that the system was screwed up and that it would kill me to try to work within the bureaucracy. I chose to go the consultant route and help people navigate the maze of red tape, public hearings and other land use hoopla.

I'm honestly not sure which way to go. Any government job is bound to be extremely frustrating.

 

[e_blazer]

I'm honestly not sure which way to go. Any government job is bound to be extremely frustrating.

I've got lots of friends working on the other side of the counter. There are definitely huge differences between agencies as far as the frustration factor goes. City of Portland seems to be near the top of the heap for pure bureaucracy bullshit. I don't often see a planner there last more than a few years. Clackamas County, on the other hand, tends to get guys into the system and they tend to stick for full careers. Washington County has been pretty good that way, too, but it seems that there's more turnover there now. The consultant route isn't for everyone, but I've enjoyed it. I set my own hours, vacation schedule, etc. The money can fluctuate a lot over a career. During good times, you can make much more than in the public sector, but be sure to stock some away for the inevitable bad years.