US helicopter raid on Syria kills eight

[¹²³]

FOXNews.com

A U.S. strike on a network of foreign fighters in Syria killed its main target — an Al Qaeda coordinator who was wanted for sending foreign fighters, weapons and cash into Iraq, a U.S. official told FOX News.

Among the eight people killed in Sunday's attack by Special Operations Forces was Abu Ghadiyain, Al Qaeda's senior coordinator operating in Syria who was closely associated with the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq.

The raid was an act of "criminal and terrorist aggression," Syria's foreign minister said during a London news conference, warning of retaliation if its borders were violated again.

If there is a repeat of the weekend raid, "we would defend our territories," Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallem said.

Link

 

[¹²³]

BBC.co.uk

Syria has accused the US of committing a "war crime" after a helicopter raid within its borders left eight people dead.

Sam is a BBC user who lives in Abu Kamal, the Syrian border town where the attack happened on Sunday. He describes the local anger at the attack directed at America - and at Syrian authorities.

Link

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

My dad is in Syria right now visiting my uncle who drove there from Iraq...I got an email from him this morning 415am pacific time, that he is going to Damascus...he better not get killed

Don't worry, Damascus is a safe place. He'll be fine. What you should be worried about is the Blazers destroying the Lakers tomorrow night.

Okay, on to the issue.

It's interesting to me that the military can basically kill civilians in any Middle Eastern country, and the right wing will find a way to justify it to themselves. Maxiep pointed out that you shouldn't be hasty to accept the Syrian's version of events. While there is truth to that, it doesn't excuse what happened. And really, if it was ANY OTHER COUNTRY in the Middle East that this happened to, would that line would have been any different? We're just not going to trust any body else's word except our own (and Israel's) about what goes on in that part of the world.

The Syrians love us, but they won't for long if we cross their borders again. We need the countries surrounding Iraq to be on our side in the worst way, and this kind of shit is not going to help.

And there is a difference between going into Pakistan to get Osama and going into Syria to chase down a member of al-Qaida in Iraq. al-Qaida in Iraq is not (and never was) a faction of elite terrorists. These are people that have been recently recruited, extreme opportunists, and more easily dealt with than crossing borders illegally and blowing civilians up to kill them.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

If you have a chance, watch "V for Vendetta" sometime. The "News Service" is a lot like what goes on behind "the CNN of the Middle East".

It was written in response to Reagan's curtailing of civil liberties. Something tells me Alan Moore wasn't thinking of al-Jazeera, but more of the West's media system, when he wrote the comic.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Yes we're at war, we're at war with fanatics, and religion freaks all over the world, but mostly concentrated in the Middle East area.

So any attack is fair, just like they bombed our country, destroyed our economy (this mess we're in now is the aftermath of 9/11), and will continue to attack/bomb/and kill our men and women, and our freedom.

We're talking about Syria.

What you just said is tantamount to someone bombing America because they're mad at Canada.

 

[CelticKing]

We're talking about Syria.

What you just said is tantamount to someone bombing America because they're mad at Canada.

Of course we're talking about Syria but there are terrorist agents who are entering Iraq from Syria.

 

[DaRizzle]

^Well shit then! Lets start bombing Mexico!!!

 

[CelticKing]

^Well shit then! Lets start bombing Mexico!!!

They didn't bomb Syria, calm down Rizzle, they bombed a terrorist cell, and as for the "innocent" people being caught up in it, what the F are they doing with the terrorists? Same thing has happened in Iraq and Afghanistan, the terrorists find hiding spots in different villages and when shit hits the fan, they play the innocent card and hide behind little children. They're "true" warriors alright.

 

[DaRizzle]

They didn't bomb Syria,

Uh...yes they did. So if Canada (if they had the capabilities)chased a group of people that had done their country harm into Iowa and bombed them while they hid in a cornfield then its ok? Oh dont worry America, we bombed only bad people in a desolate area.

 

[MARIS61]

The official line from the US is that they were successful in killing 8 people, including a person they "suspect" may have "terrorist" ties.

Can't get much weaker than that.

 

[MARIS61]

Do you stop and help put out a house fire when you see one? I bet it's because you're not a fireman. Some people aren't soldiers either.

You couldn't have known, but yes I've done that a few times, at house fires and brush fires.

My Dad was a Fireman, and I grew up hanging out at the L.O.F.D.. My cousin was one in Clackamas, a nephew is one in Portland, and one of my sons and another nephew are studying to be firemen.

If you wanted to be a soldier they'll take pretty much anyone at this point, so it must not have appealed to you.

 

[Pontius]

"So any attack is fair, just like they bombed our country, destroyed our economy (this mess we're in now is the aftermath of 9/11), and will continue to attack/bomb/and kill our men and women, and our freedom."


Our freedom? How? How do you suppose a terrorist organization has the capability to threaten our freedom? I think somebody has been watching a little too much Invasion USA or Red Dawn. There's a far better chance of you getting randomly shot by some nut job American than for you to be harmed on American soil by a foreign terrorist. Do you support missile attacks in hostage situations that take place in this country? They happen far more often than do terrorist attacks. How exactly are terrorists affecting our freedom? Maybe it's about time you realize that the only freedoms that have been affected by terrorists are due to our own administration's countermeasures that have indeed made our country less free. Whether or not most of those countermeasures are necessary is open to debate. Whether or not most of those countermeasures violate our own freedoms is not.


Are you one of those people who think that Arabs hate us for our freedom? David Cross said it best. He was talking to you:

"I don't think Osama bin Laden sent those planes to attack us because he hated our freedom. I think he did it because of our support for Israel, our ties with the Saudi family and our military bases in Saudi Arabia. You know why I think that? Because that's what he fucking said! Are we a nation of 6-year-olds?"


And another for the simpletons:

Terrorism is the war of the poor, and, war is the terrorism of the rich.

Peter Uestinov

 

[DaRizzle]

^repped

 

[BrianFromWA]

If you wanted to be a soldier they'll take pretty much anyone at this point, so it must not have appealed to you.

Maris, I know you're generally against the military, and that's cool, but that's kind of an ignorant thing to say. Just off the top of my head, you have to be within a certain age (usually 18-35, though there are exceptions for those "skilled" in certain areas.)

You have to speak English, which disqualifies a growing amount of our population.

You can't be 18 and have more than two dependents (generally a wife and kid are "dependents, though sometime parents can count)

You can't be "indebted". If you owe more in monthly "bills" than 40% of your anticipated pay, no dice. It's not a jobs program, it's service to our country.

You can't be a single parent, another disqualifier for a large segment of society.

99% have to be high school graduates by mandate. The ones that aren't have to have a higher score on the entrance exam.

Anyone who smoked marijuana more than 15 times. That's another portion of the population gone.

Anyone who ever sold drugs is done. Anyone who ever went to a dependency class is also done.

These are just some basic requirements to enlist. Officers and many jobs within the ranks have much more stringent requirements. It's pretty weak to assume randomly that only the stupid or denizens join the military, though it puts you in company with guys like John Kerry.

 

[MARIS61]

Maris, I know you're generally against the military, and that's cool, but that's kind of an ignorant thing to say. Just off the top of my head, you have to be within a certain age (usually 18-35, though there are exceptions for those "skilled" in certain areas.)

You have to speak English, which disqualifies a growing amount of our population.

You can't be 18 and have more than two dependents (generally a wife and kid are "dependents, though sometime parents can count)

You can't be "indebted". If you owe more in monthly "bills" than 40% of your anticipated pay, no dice. It's not a jobs program, it's service to our country.

You can't be a single parent, another disqualifier for a large segment of society.

99% have to be high school graduates by mandate. The ones that aren't have to have a higher score on the entrance exam.

Anyone who smoked marijuana more than 15 times. That's another portion of the population gone.

Anyone who ever sold drugs is done. Anyone who ever went to a dependency class is also done.

These are just some basic requirements to enlist. Officers and many jobs within the ranks have much more stringent requirements. It's pretty weak to assume randomly that only the stupid or denizens join the military, though it puts you in company with guys like John Kerry.

Other than the speaking English requirement and the over 35, I personally know soldiers who shouldn't have been accepted according to your special rules, but were.

Wife and 2 kids, no problemo.

Buried in debt, the recruiter actually used this as a selling point.

99% HS Diploma, in your dreams. I believe about 70% of the Army have graduated HS.

Smoked pot, I'd say 90% of the Army has in the past and 60% still do on a regular basis.

Sold drugs, I guess you mean caught selling drugs.

And you are incorrect in saying I am generally against the military. Far from it. They are obviously necessary for the security of our nation. And I have a tremendous respect for someone who does it for that reason.

What I AM against is those who would mis-use the military illegally for their own personal gain as Bush/Cheney have done.

What I AM against are those IN the military who do things they know in their heart are wrong but use the cowardly excuse "just following orders".

When you offer yourself to be used as a weapon, you are still 100% responsible for how you are used.

 

[BlazersBlood]

"So any attack is fair, just like they bombed our country, destroyed our economy (this mess we're in now is the aftermath of 9/11), and will continue to attack/bomb/and kill our men and women, and our freedom."


Our freedom? How? How do you suppose a terrorist organization has the capability to threaten our freedom? I think somebody has been watching a little too much Invasion USA or Red Dawn. There's a far better chance of you getting randomly shot by some nut job American than for you to be harmed on American soil by a foreign terrorist. Do you support missile attacks in hostage situations that take place in this country? They happen far more often than do terrorist attacks. How exactly are terrorists affecting our freedom? Maybe it's about time you realize that the only freedoms that have been affected by terrorists are due to our own administration's countermeasures that have indeed made our country less free. Whether or not most of those countermeasures are necessary is open to debate. Whether or not most of those countermeasures violate our own freedoms is not.


Are you one of those people who think that Arabs hate us for our freedom? David Cross said it best. He was talking to you:

"I don't think Osama bin Laden sent those planes to attack us because he hated our freedom. I think he did it because of our support for Israel, our ties with the Saudi family and our military bases in Saudi Arabia. You know why I think that? Because that's what he fucking said! Are we a nation of 6-year-olds?"


And another for the simpletons:

Terrorism is the war of the poor, and, war is the terrorism of the rich.

Peter Uestinov

Thank you! The attack on America wasn't an action, it was a reaction.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Other than the speaking English requirement and the over 35, I personally know soldiers who shouldn't have been accepted according to your special rules, but were.

Wife and 2 kids, no problemo.

Buried in debt, the recruiter actually used this as a selling point.

99% HS Diploma, in your dreams. I believe about 70% of the Army have graduated HS.

Smoked pot, I'd say 90% of the Army has in the past and 60% still do on a regular basis.

Sold drugs, I guess you mean caught selling drugs.

And you are incorrect in saying I am generally against the military. Far from it. They are obviously necessary for the security of our nation. And I have a tremendous respect for someone who does it for that reason.

What I AM against is those who would mis-use the military illegally for their own personal gain as Bush/Cheney have done.

What I AM against are those IN the military who do things they know in their heart are wrong but use the cowardly excuse "just following orders".

When you offer yourself to be used as a weapon, you are still 100% responsible for how you are used.

Not my special rules. http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlstandards.htm

I understand that's just about.com, but I know that recruiters have a large book of all the rules they have to go through with all the forms, etc.

I don't want to rehash the "just following orders" debate. If you don't know that it's illegal to do that, then you probably won't listen to me when I say it is. I wasn't around for Vietnam. I don't know what happened there. I don't know what happens each day to every soldier and marine in Iraq. But atrocities aren't being committed just to flex our American muscle, or for Bush/Cheney to punish Arab women and children.

Perhaps Bush/Cheney has misused the military. But are you really leaving it at that? Nancy Pelosi has, therefore, "misused" the military for political gain (http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0206-24.htm) by voting to keep the troops there while her constituents didn't want it. I don't agree with Rep. Jim McDermott (D-WA) or his views on a lot of things, but I respect that the guy has the pulse of his constituents and almost always votes the way his district would (which is heavily liberal).

Look, I guess I misinterpreted your comments about "anyone being able to join" and the "just following orders" and the thought that the military is being used to stuff Bush's pockets as being anti-military. I apologize and usually like hearing your viewpoint, which generally is 180 out from mine. I took exception to the thought that anyone could join the military, which isn't really true. That's all.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

They didn't bomb Syria, calm down Rizzle, they bombed a terrorist cell, and as for the "innocent" people being caught up in it, what the F are they doing with the terrorists?

Please come back to this discussion when you know anything about the Middle East.

 

[CelticKing]

Please come back to this discussion when you know anything about the Middle East.

I know more about the Middle East than you can dream of hoojack.

If you want to continue debating then go ahead and do so.

 

[maxiep]

Please come back to this discussion when you know anything about the Middle East.

Exactly what is your area of expertise with the Middle East? Why would you suppose that you know more than others? Anyone can make a proclamation, but eventually proof is required.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

CelticKing said this:

they bombed a terrorist cell, and as for the "innocent" people being caught up in it, what the F are they doing with the terrorists?

This is a long subject to go into, but I'm sure you know that different cultures have very different and difficult to understand ways of looking at the world. I don't want to write a paper about it, so let's go with the short version. The notion that has been etched into our collective value system of "innocent vs terrorist" isn't as salient in the Middle East, especially in a rural border town in Syria, as it is here. I would dare to say that that line hardly exists. CelticKing's comment, to me, was his reaction to not being able to comprehend another area of the world's sociopolitical situation, not to mention the culture and value system.

We run a prison in Iraq called Camp Bucca. It has over 15,000 people in it, most of which have not been charged with a crime and have been there for years. I wouldn't hesitate to assume someone like CelticKing or Shooter would label those inmates terrorists. The surrounding town's economy is in a large boom right now, because of the massive influx of family members, friends and people from the community that come to visit these people who are in jail there. The point is, the people we label terrorists and hunt down and bomb are people with families and friends, and those family members and friends are the innocent civilians that are killed when we hunt those terrorists down and bomb them. The people who take in wanderers from the desert and give them shelter are the innocent civilians that are killed when we bomb their house because a terrorist is in there. That, CelticKing, is what the "F" those innocent people are doing with the terrorists.

I cannot imagine even you, maxiep, agreeing with this statement:

Yes we're at war, we're at war with fanatics, and religion freaks all over the world, but mostly concentrated in the Middle East area.

So any attack is fair, just like they bombed our country, destroyed our economy (this mess we're in now is the aftermath of 9/11), and will continue to attack/bomb/and kill our men and women, and our freedom.

Exactly what is your area of expertise with the Middle East? Why would you suppose that you know more than others? Anyone can make a proclamation, but eventually proof is required.

I understand that snide comments made on the internet aren't the best way to establish credibility on a subject, and I don't expect you to take my analysis as anything other than liberal bias spoonfed to me by whatever liberals are being brainwashed by nowadays, probably Keith Olbermann or John Stewart.

But if you must know, I keep up on the Middle East. I've been studying the Middle East, Islam, and the Arabic language and culture for just over five years now. I've taken too many classes about the subject to remember off the top of my head. I've been to Syria. I've talked these people extensively. I do not consider myself an expert, but I think that I, as you say, "know more than others."