Wait..average Ford employee makes more than $55 an hour?

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AgentDrazenPetrovic

Anyone But the Lakers
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That's over 100k a year. Average.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090311/ts_nm/us_ford

– Ford Motor Co said on Wednesday that it expects operating savings of $500 million per year from an agreement with the United Auto Workers that will push hourly wage rates into the "ballpark" of foreign-based rivals.

Ford said the agreement would trim its average wages for the 42,000 workers covered under the contract, including the value of benefits, to about $55 per hour this year, while the U.S. operations of foreign-based automakers -- or what auto executives call "transplants" -- pay workers on average $48 to $49 per hour.

The agreement with the UAW, which workers ratified earlier in March, allows Ford to suspend some performance and bonus payments, reduce overtime costs and cut a paid holiday, as well as restructure funding of a union retiree healthcare trust.
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42,000 workers making average of over 110k a year and the average home price in detroit is 7500 and they need a bailout? wtf?
 
AgentDrazenPetrovic said:
so they didn't go to congress?

I thought they did..
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They thought about asking congress for money but decided that a) it would be bad for their image and b) they had enough money to survive for a couple of years without government help
 
AgentDrazenPetrovic said:
wonder if GM and Chrylser are paying that high too. fucking unions. they fuck themselves over.
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Exactly. There's been a shift in this country toward a knowledge economy. Those who take the time to educate themselves will do much better than those who perform mindless work. Those in Southeast Michigan still believe that they have a right to an upper middle class lifestyle by working a factory job.

You have a completely effed company when your line workers make more than your engineers.
 
Yup, the Autoworkers Union is insane. There is no reason people should be getting paid that well for that kind of work. And I'm pretty sure they get paid great benefits as well, after they retire. I really don't feel like I should be contributing to that mess of a system.
 
BalancedMan said:
Yup, the Autoworkers Union is insane. There is no reason people should be getting paid that well for that kind of work. And I'm pretty sure they get paid great benefits as well, after they retire. I really don't feel like I should be contributing to that mess of a system.
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UAW workers can retire at full pay at age 48- however, they also have to have been in the union for 30 years.
 
BlazersBlood said:
I may be wrong on this, but I don't think this is their hourly wage. It's the company's cost per hour when factoring in benefits and such. I don't want to double check, so I may be off.
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That is correct. Plus one has to factor in that this number is an average cost based on all of the their employees. That is probably including higher wage managers, foremen and the like. That definately ups the average.

Also about Unions. Without Union, this country would have been fucked. Before unions gained traction, workers were treated like dirt here in America. I can not picture that continuing on until this day without a revolt. That is one reason this country and its system has lasted as long as it has. Even when something comes about that the higher-ups in the system don't really like, they often give in just enough to prevent any kind of general or wide spread revolt. Are there huge problems in the some of the unions right now? Most definately. But, they are a service worth keeping around, with a little maintenance. Before I moved to Portland, I took two jobs in two seperate plywood mills in southern Oregon in order to save money to move here. The first, Roseburg Forest Products, had a Union. We had higher wages, but some of those wages went towards Union dues sort of evening out. However, what I had was assurance. My schedule never got messed with. I had very regular hours. No one could replace me at a lower wage. I could not be fired without reason. My time there was smoooooth. The next mill, however, was non-union, and the company had a ton of power over the employee. I had a schedule, but at anytime of the day or night, they could change it on me. I never knew what my day was going to be like..... if I could make plans for after work, or if I could even make plans for the weekends, as they would often tell us on friday to come in on saturday and sunday. Plus, I got lower wages.

Unions can run smooth and unions can run terribly, but they are a must, in my opinion, in this nation.
 
yes, otherwise american carmakers might be competatitve with the japanese!

Criticism

Many people blame the UAW for the automotive industry crisis of 2008-2009. They point to its high benefits compared to its contemporaries working in Toyota as the reason for the uncompetitiveness of the Big Three. In a Nov. 18, 2008, New York Times editorial, Andrew Ross Sorkin claimed that, counting benefits, each UAW worker receives $74/hour while Toyota workers receive about $44/hour.[15] However most of this cost disparity comes from legacy pension benefits to retired members, of which the Japanese automakers have none. More importantly, foreign automakers do not need to deal with unionized labor and are therefore not forced to deal with high costs that are correlated with excessive benefits and pensions. Instead, the workers of foreign companies with factories in the US are more willing to share the cost of insurance, pensions, and benefits amongst themselves, even when the company willingly accepts the majority of the costs, to help keep the company operating efficiently and to scale.

The Union has also come under fire for setting up controversial programs such as the job bank program above and refusing to cut its salary to match the salaries of workers in competitors such as Toyota.[16][17] The UAW, however, has taken steps to correct this situation, such as pledging to match foreign competitors' salary by 2011 and using a union-run fund to take some of the health liability off the automakers. Whether these measures will be effective remains to be seen. The single most important question is whether or not these companies will remain operational until 2011, especially if the UAW does not take steps to support their companies by making concessions.

[edit]
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AgentDrazenPetrovic said:
wonder if GM and Chrylser are paying that high too. fucking unions. they fuck themselves over.
Click to expand...

I'm in a union. It is the crappiest thing ever, for the most part. There are nice things about it, like having union protection if the company ever tries to fire you for no reason, but for the most part it sucks. People who are lazy/terrible at their job get away with sucking, people who work hard and get more work done than the others are not rewarded for their hard work. Every time the company tries to promote somebody who is not next in line by seniority, it causes a huge shitstorm. Guys that are completely worthless get promoted just because the company doesn't feel like dealing with all the bullshit. And yes, in most cases, union members with a lot of time will make more than their bosses and supervisors.
 
sounds like Obama's vision for america......

unions seem scammy to me. lots of people at the top stealing cash and shit like that, politics, and the kind of shit....favortism, etc.
 
AgentDrazenPetrovic said:
sounds like Obama's vision for america......

unions seem scammy to me. lots of people at the top stealing cash and shit like that, politics, and the kind of shit....favortism, etc.
Click to expand...

My union has tens of thousands of people all paying 15 dollars a week in dues. I still have yet to get one cent's worth of return on mine. But the people who constantly get suspended for being horrible employees, have the union stick up for them and ultimately get their jobs back think it's worth every penny. Other than that, I'm not sure exactly where all that money goes.
 
The unions were asked to take cuts to help out the companies. To be fair.

To be unfair, the union execs go off to some Spa at all our expenses (indirectly) and Obama looks the other way. If it's the company execs doing it, he mouths off about it.
 
Denny Crane said:
To be unfair, the union execs go off to some Spa at all our expenses (indirectly) and Obama looks the other way. If it's the company execs doing it, he mouths off about it.
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When the taxpayers have to bail out a union, then Obama ought to "mouth off" about how the union has been run. So far, that hasn't happened.

barfo
 
BlazersBlood said:
I may be wrong on this, but I don't think this is their hourly wage. It's the company's cost per hour when factoring in benefits and such. I don't want to double check, so I may be off.
Click to expand...

Now, let's not go introducing facts. Facts are stupid things.

barfo
 
maxiep said:
You have a completely effed company when your line workers make more than your engineers.
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Any evidence that that's actually the case, or are you just making a hypothetical observation?

barfo
 
Decided not to post what I'd planned. Sorry.
 
handclap problematic said:
That is correct. Plus one has to factor in that this number is an average cost based on all of the their employees. That is probably including higher wage managers, foremen and the like. That definately ups the average.

Also about Unions. Without Union, this country would have been fucked. Before unions gained traction, workers were treated like dirt here in America. I can not picture that continuing on until this day without a revolt. That is one reason this country and its system has lasted as long as it has. Even when something comes about that the higher-ups in the system don't really like, they often give in just enough to prevent any kind of general or wide spread revolt. Are there huge problems in the some of the unions right now? Most definately. But, they are a service worth keeping around, with a little maintenance. Before I moved to Portland, I took two jobs in two seperate plywood mills in southern Oregon in order to save money to move here. The first, Roseburg Forest Products, had a Union. We had higher wages, but some of those wages went towards Union dues sort of evening out. However, what I had was assurance. My schedule never got messed with. I had very regular hours. No one could replace me at a lower wage. I could not be fired without reason. My time there was smoooooth. The next mill, however, was non-union, and the company had a ton of power over the employee. I had a schedule, but at anytime of the day or night, they could change it on me. I never knew what my day was going to be like..... if I could make plans for after work, or if I could even make plans for the weekends, as they would often tell us on friday to come in on saturday and sunday. Plus, I got lower wages.

Unions can run smooth and unions can run terribly, but they are a must, in my opinion, in this nation.
Click to expand...

I believe unions saved this country from communism at the beginning of the 20th Century. However, like the buggy whip, they're an anachronism. The government has basically replaced the unions in protecting workers' rights. The stuff unions protest against would be laughed at by the people who tried to form them in the late 19th Century.
 
barfo said:
When the taxpayers have to bail out a union, then Obama ought to "mouth off" about how the union has been run. So far, that hasn't happened.

barfo
Click to expand...

Taxpayers are bailing out the unions. The automakers costs include the salaries of those workers who pay those dues. The money goes taxpayer => govt => bailout => automaker => union workers => dues
 
Denny Crane said:
Taxpayers are bailing out the unions. The automakers costs include the salaries of those workers who pay those dues. The money goes taxpayer => govt => bailout => automaker => union workers => dues
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Sure. The money also goes taxpayer => govt => bailout => automaker => union workers => porn.

So we are bailing out the porn industry.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Sure. The money also goes taxpayer => govt => bailout => automaker => union workers => porn.

So we are bailing out the porn industry.

barfo
Click to expand...

Seriously, who pays for porn anymore?

I guess it's all about who you ask, but unions are either loved or hated. My dad worked for Freightliner and he LOVES his union. If it wasn't for them, Daimer-Chrysler would have screwed a lot of people over.

For me, I think unions are redundant for the most part these days. Seniority should not give you automatic job security. Job performance should.
 
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