What clicked for the Suns?

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in

Who is most responsible for Phoenix turnaround?

  • Monty Williams

    Votes: 8 38.1%

  • Devin Booker

    Votes: 2 9.5%

  • Mikal Bridges

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Deandre Ayton

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 11 52.4%
  • Total voters
    21
KSF-ERIC

KSF-ERIC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2019
Messages
8,659
Likes
6,453
Points
113
It’s not CP3 because they went 8-0 in bubble with Rubio. They started last season well and then fell off a cliff. They were 26-39 when the season got suspended. Since then, they’re 33-11. What the fuck?
 
We talked with some Suns fans on just that on both the pregame and postgame show yesterday
 
Right combination of players. Right coach. Right league.
 
Consistency, good coaching, Defense and ability to own the fourth quarter
 
They have the board covered mostly. Inside out, solid D, good rebounding, strong bench, explosive scorer and players coach. They got players that tough minded and not afraid to mix it up.
 
I doubt you can pin it all on just one factor. Cases like Phoenix are probably due to a perfect storm of events

but contrasting the Suns with the Blazers:

* I'd say the primary factor is roster construction, and yes, a significant part of that is CP3. Booker and Paul complement each other a hell of a lot more than Dame and CJ do. They don't step on each other's toes and they use the ball, and possessions differently. But it's CP3 that runs the offense now and for years he's been best in the league as 'coach-on-the-floor'

* the Suns also have the critical luxury of a group of 6'5-6'6 wings who are actually good two-way players. Crowder, Bridges, Johnson, & Nader all play good defense and all contribute at a fairly consistent level on offense. As a group, those 4 shoot 40% from three. Having four 3&D wings is a huge advantage. If Booker played better defense, the Suns would have the best wing rotation in the league. They might have it anyway

* unlike Portland, the Suns have a highly competent backup PG. Payne plays good defense, shoots three's at a 45% clip (sustainable?), and has a 3.7 assist/turnover ratio

* Phx. has a good modern big man rotation; Ayton, Kaminsky, and Saric all have their strengths and give the Suns different looks

* They have a GM with a plan and a coach that fits the roster

all that would imply that the Suns have joined the contenders and are much better than Portland. I don't think that's a fact yet. What the Suns are doing may not be sustainable, and they haven't had to deal with any significant injuries except to Saric. Last year, Miami was the Cinderella team with a bright future. This year they've struggled (although they've had a tough schedule and are 13-4 over the last 17 games).

in the Portland vs Phoenix matchup, the Suns have looked better, but the Blazers have the best player, and should be getting CJ & Nurk back soon. While I don't believe that will make Portland a great team, it will make the Blazers stronger, and in the last game, it was only a hot shooting 4thQ for the Suns that gave them the edge. But Phoenix does have one big advantage over Portland: a 6th rated defense vs a 29th rated defense. Offenses can run hot and cold, but a good defense is sustainable and shows up every game
 
not saying that if Portland offered, he would have accepted, but....

would the Blazers be better of with RoCo and Jae Crowder at forwards than with RoCo and Jones?
 
I think it's really an easy situation to analyze. The answer is experience. The group that returned is still very young and improving and took a huge leap forward between the suspension of games for COVID and right now. Then you have the experience of CP3.

So your poll lacked the only reasonable answer. It isn't just one player, it's not Monty Williams getting better from before the bubble until now. It's just time for the returning roster and adding a leader on both ends with a ton of it.
 
riverman said:
I think so
Click to expand...

that's my thinking. I mean, I do like Jones, and he may be as good defensively as Crowder, and as versatile. But Crowder is a lot more impactful on offense. He's not elite or even top-tier, but he is a two-way player, and Portland lacks those
 
blazerkor said:
I think it's really an easy situation to analyze. The answer is experience. The group that returned is still very young and improving and took a huge leap forward between the suspension of games for COVID and right now. Then you have the experience of CP3.

So your poll lacked the only reasonable answer. It isn't just one player, it's not Monty Williams getting better from before the bubble until now. It's just time for the returning roster and adding a leader on both ends with a ton of it.
Click to expand...

they also added the experience of Crowder, Nader, and Moore in the off-season
 
wizenheimer said:
not saying that if Portland offered, he would have accepted, but....

would the Blazers be better of with RoCo and Jae Crowder at forwards than with RoCo and Jones?
Click to expand...
I don't really know. I think the two are about equal on defense even if they go about a little differently. After a rocky start Jones has actually been more accurate from three than Crowder since the beginning of February but Crowder shoots a lot more. Crowder is a bigger part of their offense and he's also six years older so you know Stotts would make him a bigger part of ours. That being said, if we hold onto Jones past this season I think he's the more valuable commodity. So yeah we'd be a little better with Crowder but that's mostly just because of Stotts.
 
1. CP3
2. Booker is good and reaching his prime.
3. Health.
4. Balanced team that plays both ends well.
5. Middle of the pack strength of schedule played.
 
Couple things to note.

Every year CP3 is in the league, his teams seem to over perform in the regular season and choke in the playoffs (you could argue the same is true of Dame lead teams).

All things considered, it's weird to see such high praise for the Suns, yet Portland (while missing 40% of it's starting 5 and incorporating a new 40% of their starting 5 in addition to losing 40% of their starting unit) is a whole whopping 4 games behind them.

Take the 2nd and 3rd best players off the Suns for the last 2 months and let's see just how good they'd be. I really doubt they'd only be 21-15 right now.
 
Mostly, I'd say, it's CP3 and actually playing defense. The Blazers playing defense would make a WORLD of difference for their record and probability of making it past the 1st round (let alone 2nd round).
 
e_blazer said:
1. CP3
2. Booker is good and reaching his prime.
3. Health.
4. Balanced team that plays both ends well.
5. Middle of the pack strength of schedule played.
Click to expand...

just for fun, SOS rankings. First from BBREF:

upload_2021-3-13_10-45-0.png

also from BBREF, SRS rankings (Simple Rating System; a team rating that takes into account average point differential and strength of schedule. The rating is denominated in points above/below average, where zero is average):


upload_2021-3-13_10-47-1.png

and remaining SOS from Tankathon:

upload_2021-3-13_10-53-4.png
upload_2021-3-13_10-54-5.png

what's a little scary about that for the Blazers is that after, they play the next 6 games against 3 teams with a combined winning percentage of .387, their SOS for the remaining 30 games will jump up toward the top of that list. Critical that the Blazers build a cushion over the next 6 games. That's especially true considering that Utah, Denver, and Dallas have 3 of the 4 easiest schedules and Golden State isn't far behind
 
I'm not sure bubble records from last year should be used to draw any conclusions. You had some players coming back in better shape than others, some players opting out, some teams with nothing to play for, while othe teams (Portland and Phoenix) were giving max effort.

The Suns have had 7 lottery picks in 6 years, traded for a HOF PG, and made some nice signings this off-season.

In comparison, we've had 1 lotterly pick in 6 years (and it doesn't appear to be a good one), our biggest trade acquisition on the roster is Covington (no CP3), and we also made a nice (singlar) signing.
 
wizenheimer said:
just for fun, SOS rankings. First from BBREF:

View attachment 37505

also from BBREF, SRS rankings (Simple Rating System; a team rating that takes into account average point differential and strength of schedule. The rating is denominated in points above/below average, where zero is average):


View attachment 37506

and remaining SOS from Tankathon:

View attachment 37507
View attachment 37508

what's a little scary about that for the Blazers is that after, they play the next 6 games against 3 teams with a combined winning percentage of .387, their SOS for the remaining 30 games will jump up toward the top of that list. Critical that the Blazers build a cushion over the next 6 games. That's especially true considering that Utah, Denver, and Dallas have 3 of the 4 easiest schedules and Golden State isn't far behind
Click to expand...
Does SOS take into account of the SOS of the opponents that make up the SOS? For that matter, the SOS of the opponents that make up the SOS of the opponents that make up the SOS? It’s a very flawed stat rarely means anything. Remember when the Pelicans had the “easiest schedule” in the bubble? How’d that work out?
 
KSF-ERIC said:
Does SOS take into account of the SOS of the opponents that make up the SOS? For that matter, the SOS of the opponents that make up the SOS of the opponents that make up the SOS? It’s a very flawed stat rarely means anything. Remember when the Pelicans had the “easiest schedule” in the bubble? How’d that work out?
Click to expand...

I didn't manufacture those websites or those rankings. I just posted them. Argue with the websites, not me (isn't that how deflections work around here?)

the SRS I posted above is a little more developed than raw SOS.

This site does some adjusting to SOS:

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other

this site uses a composite of power rankings to rate played and remaining SOS:

http://powerrankingsguru.com/nba/strength-of-schedule.php

no matter how you slice and dice it, or how much sunshine you want to infuse, the Blazers have had a relatively easy SOS to this point, and will have about the hardest SOS over the last 30 games. The other side of that is several of the teams they are jockeying with for playoff seeding will have easier schedules

Portland is as capable of many of those teams of getting hot and going on a win streak. But when they have done that over the last 6 seasons, it's always come in an easier stretch of games
 
wizenheimer said:
I didn't manufacture those websites or those rankings. I just posted them. Argue with the websites, not me (isn't that how deflections work around here?)

the SRS I posted above is a little more developed than raw SOS.

This site does some adjusting to SOS:

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other

this site uses a composite of power rankings to rate played and remaining SOS:

http://powerrankingsguru.com/nba/strength-of-schedule.php

no matter how you slice and dice it, or how much sunshine you want to infuse, the Blazers have had a relatively easy SOS to this point, and will have about the hardest SOS over the last 30 games. The other side of that is several of the teams they are jockeying with for playoff seeding will have easier schedules

Portland is as capable of many of those teams of getting hot and going on a win streak. But when they have done that over the last 6 seasons, it's always come in an easier stretch of games
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, my point in listing the Suns’ SOS as middle of the pack wasn’t to try to say anything about the Blazers and their SOS. I was just listing, in order of impact, my thoughts as to why the Suns’ record is so much improved.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top