Science What is a racist?

[MarAzul]

As an old white man, I have been told I can not know. Perhaps this is true but I might learn if someone knew! And could explain!

The dictionary is rather terse;
->
Noun:
A person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others.

Adjective:
Based on racial intolerance
or
Discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion

->
Lumping race and religion under the same term is ridiculous so let us leave religion for another time.

I don't even like the Noun description of "superior" or not. While differences can be superior or not, they can also be assets, or not. Teamed together, they even can be complementary, or not.
Saying it is only color is silly, it is simply illogical and non observant.

So when you fling the Racist term, can you define why? Or is this just a Political weapon to unsheathe, more often than not.

Then other say, you can not know, unless you experience racism. And then they say, old white men can not.

 

[riverman]

Noun:
A person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others.

Adjective:
Based on racial intolerance

This would be my understanding of it...but given that humans have common ancestors I think it's something that we all should get over...for instance the Hawaiian word Haole means empty of color or no soul....The Chinese phrase for anyone not Chinese has always been Guai Lo or barbarian ...yet both are accepted uses that most indigenous peoples don't think apply...I think any oppressed people's who've endured slavery or indentured servitude relate it to the European conquistadors that enslaved or basically grouped them into servitude or Hitlers ethnic cleansing bullshit in WWII....but literally this would apply to African slave owners and well as Irish indentured servants or Gauls enslaved by Romans ...etc....I think the whole term should be examined in context but our own American history has such a short span and modern day outcome that American slavery is seen differently from say...Roman slavery...it's a complex question...I taught a course in Taiwan medical college about topics of controversy and this one of the syllabus classes...the difference between race, culture and nationality....Native americans enslaved native americans...and on and on...to evolve as a human society of tolerant diversity I believe we should move on to better relations with all peoples...intellectually modern society spouts high ideals but emotionally we are not caught up to them would be my take. Ignorant behavior keeps these things from evolving...the book Guns Germs and Steel touches on some of this...in some ways racism is a distraction from classism or say the cast system in places like India where minority groups are actually called "untouchables"

 

[MarAzul]

emotionally we are not caught up to them would be my take.

Time to begin old white man! This shit is intolerable to observe.

 

[MarAzul]

.intellectually modern society spouts high ideals

This maybe bullshit too.

 

[riverman]

This maybe bullshit too.

It definitely is ...but it's an upper class attitude that seems to have prevailed throughout the world...The Mandarins in China look down on the Hakka people and many other Chinese ethnic groups..the difference would be that Chinese have 10,000 years of written history and American history or German history has fresher wounds from genocidal behavior.

 

[riverman]

I've been married twice interracially...which is in itself a rebellion against racism. I'd have to say that all of my many friends who are also interracially married are by no means prone to racist dialogue or behavior.

 

[MarAzul]

The Mandarins in China look down on the Hakka people and many other Chinese ethnic groups

They do the same in Japan, look down on the Ainu. In Britain the English looking down on the Irish is well known. Or it was.
So the this means for sure racism is not due to skin color. Ha! Well at least unless that is all the dumb ass can observe.

So it might be a class thing? Hard to believe, most of us or our progenitors got to this place in the bowels of a ship, not the upper class deck.

 

[riverman]

most of us or our progenitor got to this place in the bowels of a ship, not the upper class deck.

But the captain of that ship and his officers had the whips, chains and weapons in most cases...abuse of power leaves a bad taste in the folks below deck...

 

[MarAzul]

I've been married twice interracially...which is in itself a rebellion against racism.

Well I won't object to your choice. But the I would not or did not do the same because I like and expected to see my Green eye'd Blond haired Grand Children. I like that. I find no error.

 

[MarAzul]

But the captain of that ship and his officers had the whips, chains and weapons in most cases...abuse of power leaves a bad taste in the folks below deck...

Oh I think you speak of a slave ship, mine came in the bowels of ship maybe 60 or 70 years later. No whip needed, completely by choice. Well correction, perhaps need, maybe even desire.

 

[riverman]

Well I won't object to your choice. But the I would not or did not do the same because I like and expected to see my Green eye'd Blond haired Grand Children. I like that. I find no error.

I have no problem with choices....my path led to a different choice that my father did not support until his deathbed....which I found sad but in the end I forgave him ….he wanted me to marry the green eyed irish girl who's family was prosperous that I took to prom in high school...I was attracted to dark haired women from the start. It was a point of contention for many, many years between us.

 

[riverman]

Oh I think you speak of a slave ship, mine came in the bowels of ship maybe 60 or 70 years later. No whip needed, completely by choice. Well correction, perhaps need, maybe even desire.

Even the Titanic had the lower birth folks in the cheap seats locked up until the rafts were filled with the first class passengers

 

[MarAzul]

.he wanted me to marry the green eyed irish girl

I was attracted to dark haired women from the start

Ha! I too like those dark hair lasses. Even avoided the green eyed girls.
Best that way. If I had married that green eyed, red haired girl, my grandsons would burn too easy. I need complementary solution not a dominate gene either way it was not possible or too overwhelming.

But hell this is known progeny selection not understanding of racist. How do we get to the point of slinging this sword daily.

 

[riverman]

How do we get to the point of slinging this sword daily.

We lead by example and live inclusive lives would be my answer

 

[MarAzul]

Even the Titanic had the lower birth folks in the cheap seats locked up until the rafts were filled with the first class passengers

Yes that is well known class distinction. But we hear little of that today, mostly racism.

 

[MarAzul]

live inclusive lives

That is asking much of people whom are of the introverted type. But then I think you skipped my point of slinging the racist sword daily. I see no end to this game or profit to be had.

 

[riverman]

That is asking much of people whom are of the introverted type. But then I think you skipped my point of slinging the racist sword daily. I see no end to this game or profit to be had.

We live in a time when we haven't evolved or resolved stereotypical behaviors...hopefully teaching the youth will eventually make these things go away..I don't expect to see it in my lifetime

 

[MarAzul]

I don't expect to see it in my lifetime

By god old white man, I don't think we should let this slide so friggin easy. Heal yourself, you have work to do.

Now we shall hear how little we know.

 

[Chris Craig]

As an old white man, I have been told I can not know.

White men can understand what it means, know its definition, and experience it. What you have been told ( I believe you are referring to people(s) on the forum telling you) is that you cannot understand it from the point of an oppressed people. I haven't experienced much racism first hand, and don't presume to understand the effects of it, had I to experience it at the levels peoples of other races, do and have.

I have probably suffered more at the hands of classicism. I have for the most part of my life been a blue collar worker. I have had people look down at me, treat me as if I were below them. Since, I went to college and became a teacher, I have experience a far greater wealth of respect.

The dictionary is rather terse;
->
Noun:
A person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others.

Adjective:
Based on racial intolerance
or
Discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion

->
Lumping race and religion under the same term is ridiculous so let us leave religion for another time.

Yes, the dictionary is short and to the point. A definition in a dictionary cannot encompass the experience, it cannot be delve into historical contexts.

It mentions religion because a lot of people suffer racism because of their religion. Some ignorant people liken races to certain religions and discriminate accordingly. I don't see how it is ridiculous to include it.

I don't even like the Noun description of "superior" or not. While differences can be superior or not, they can also be assets, or not. Teamed together, they even can be complementary, or not.
Saying it is only color is silly, it is simply illogical and non observant.

It is far more than color. Racists fear what is different. They fear change. They fear diversity. Racism is very illogical, it is ignorance at its worst.

So when you fling the Racist term, can you define why? Or is this just a Political weapon to unsheathe, more often than not.

Then other say, you can not know, unless you experience racism. And then they say, old white men can not.

Fling is a poor choice of word. Called out is more accurate. Racism must be called out, as should any form of prejudice. A political weapon? Maybe when it is used to defranchize a group of people from voting. Not in this forum.

 

[Chris Craig]

We live in a time when we haven't evolved or resolved stereotypical behaviors...hopefully teaching the youth will eventually make these things go away..I don't expect to see it in my lifetime

It is good to see older folks who are open minded to an ever changing world. It is a shame that some are frought with those sterotypical behaviors you speak of, and have passed them on. Teaching youth to think for themselves, to think critically is key. I don't know that I will see these behaviors go away in my lifetime either. I know that I have seen change, I have seen things get better. Hopefully it keeps heading that way.

 

[MarAzul]

Racism must be called out

Perhaps. First the term must be understood and defined in commonly accepted language. Not confused with religion or class. Perhaps even color as we know of racism being practice on people of the same color as the target.

 

[Chris Craig]

Even the Titanic had the lower birth folks in the cheap seats locked up until the rafts were filled with the first class passengers

The titanic offers an evocative example of classism at its worst

 

[MarAzul]

I to experience it at the levels peoples of other races, do and have.

Tell us how you experienced racism like people of other races.

 

[Chris Craig]

I have no problem with choices....my path led to a different choice that my father did not support until his deathbed....which I found sad but in the end I forgave him ….he wanted me to marry the green eyed irish girl who's family was prosperous that I took to prom in high school...I was attracted to dark haired women from the start. It was a point of contention for many, many years between us.

I too did not follow suit with my fathers choices. He was a good man, but he was ignorant in certain measures. It hurts to admit he was racist. I feel that deep down he did not embrace such disregard, but parroted his own father's views. It is a sad truth, and I have learned greatly from it.

 

[MarAzul]

Perhaps. First the term must be understood and defined in commonly accepted language. Not confused with religion or class. Perhaps even color as we know of racism being practice on people of the same color as the target.

However, the observed racism by the Japanese against the Ainu may indeed be classicism even though they are of another race.
So how do you define the difference if there is a difference?

 

[Chris Craig]

Tell us how you experienced racism like people of other races.

You misquoted me. I never said I experienced racism at the levels people of other races have. Reread the sentence.

I have experienced racism on small levels, but nothing to the extent people of other races have

 

[Chris Craig]

However, the observed racism by the Japanese against the Ainu may indeed be classicism even though they are of another race.
So how do you define the difference if there is a difference?

Its both racism and classicism, two different things. It just happens to be one circumstance where both are in play.

 

[riverman]

I'd have to say living alone in Hawaii and a small village in Taiwan when I first moved there, I experienced alienation from the norm many times...not in a violent fashion but a more subtle form...in the village in Taiwan I first moved to I was the only westerner in the village except for a priest from New Zealand..I remember walking in the market and children running away from me in fear....seen babies cry when they were near me in fear having never seen anyone like me....had children tug at the hair on my arms and say.....monkey man in Chinese. Later I lived on the eastern coast and played music in a Taiwanese trio..we submitted a demo to the national battle of the bands and when we arrived for tryouts...I was not allowed to perform because of my appearance..I was replaced by a Malaysian guitarist who spoke less Chinese than me but looked the part...I dated a girl a few times who's grandfather chased me from her door with a cane shouting barbarian ghost....I have been a minority and it was eye opening to say the least

 

[MarAzul]

He was a good man,

but he was ignorant in certain measures.

It hurts to admit he was racist.

It is a sad truth, and I have learned greatly from it

It is my observation, these are your observations capped with your judgement.
But you use a word you can not define nor reliably define when it is correctly use.

I hope we can do better.

 

[Chris Craig]

Perhaps. First the term must be understood and defined in commonly accepted language. Not confused with religion or class. Perhaps even color as we know of racism being practice on people of the same color as the target.

I think the definition is clear. I don't see how its confused with religion and class. Internalized racism? Yeah it exists too.