What is Ant's value?

[TBpup]

IF....Portland takes Scoot Henderson at #3, it would seem someone natural to move Ant (Nurk...Little) to get the help that Dame desires. But what could we get and from whom?

Orlando likes him, but they have Draft picks, not veteran players.
Will the age old Toronto deal involving OG finally come to fruition?

His shooting will fit in anywhere and his athletic ability combined with his shooting is quite rare. If we get Scoot (and keep him) this seems the most likely next step.

 

[Hoopguru]

IF....Portland takes Scoot Henderson at #3, it would seem someone natural to move Ant (Nurk...Little) to get the help that Dame desires. But what could we get and from whom?

Orlando likes him, but they have Draft picks, not veteran players.
Will the age old Toronto deal involving OG finally come to fruition?

His shooting will fit in anywhere and his athletic ability combined with his shooting is quite rare. If we get Scoot (and keep him) this seems the most likely next step.

DeAndre Hunter I'd do....

 

[Ripcity4life77]

See like I said this is the problem is dealing the 3rd pick and Ant -- the combined value of both is worth a Top 15 to 20 ish type player and only a couple players even come close to that right now in Zion and Brown and you could argue those players for various reasons do not. This is such a hard situation the Blazers have themselves in and part of it is the fact Cronin made some bone headed deals leaving the Blazers with not as many trade assets and we can argue if all that falls on Cronin or did other influences factor in but either way this is why deals are much harder to do at the moment.

 

[blazerkor]

See like I said this is the problem is dealing the 3rd pick and Ant -- the combined value of both is worth a Top 15 to 20 ish type player and only a couple players even come close to that right now in Zion and Brown and you could argue those players for various reasons do not. This is such a hard situation the Blazers have themselves in and part of it is the fact Cronin made some bone headed deals leaving the Blazers with not as many trade assets and we can argue if all that falls on Cronin or did other influences factor in but either way this is why deals are much harder to do at the moment.

I don't think Ant and Scoot are a good package either so there would and hopefully will need to be a third team. I think Ant is probably worth a good but not great starting vet and salary filler (WCJ and Gary Harris) or a late lotto pick 11 and salary filler... if we're zooming in on one team.

 

[Natebishop3]

I am honestly completely clueless about his value. In the past young guard who can score like this would have been worth more.

 

[TBpup]

See like I said this is the problem is dealing the 3rd pick and Ant -- the combined value of both is worth a Top 15 to 20 ish type player and only a couple players even come close to that right now in Zion and Brown and you could argue those players for various reasons do not. This is such a hard situation the Blazers have themselves in and part of it is the fact Cronin made some bone headed deals leaving the Blazers with not as many trade assets and we can argue if all that falls on Cronin or did other influences factor in but either way this is why deals are much harder to do at the moment.

It had nothing to do with trading #3 AND Ant. This was more along the vein of if they take Scoot, Ant seems the odd man out and what can we get for him as a standalone or with another asset?

 

[Mediocre Man]

Ant for WCjr

 

[glazeduck]

DeAndre Hunter I'd do....

Eww.

 

[Ripcity4life77]

OK I see your point but this also assumes Dame does not want out that is the wild card atm we have no clue

 

[wizenheimer]

I am honestly completely clueless about his value. In the past young guard who can score like this would have been worth more.

I think the value of players like Ant is evolving...and it's not going up. Teams want versatility and they want that wing versatility (isn't that what we all desperately want for the Blazers?). They also want 3&D. Ant is not a wing and has not demonstrated any solid or consistent PG skills, so he has almost no versatility. He also has no D and isn't even elite at 3's.

and teams probably look at Ant and do not see a good starting level SG or starting level PG. They see a 6th-7th man. Unfortunately they also see a 6th-7th man on a 26M/year contract. And with the new tax rules and a very punitive new 2nd apron, a 26M/year backup who has no versatility and plays no D is a luxury most teams can't afford

now, I'm not saying all teams would see Ant that way, but I think a big majority would. And that will limit his value, IMO

 

[glazeduck]

Feels like it's Dame or Ant, one will go.

IF Dame goes, I think we should hang onto Ant and showcase him as a starting PG in the short term. I think his value has untapped ceiling and if we're trading Dame we're certainly not going to be in a rush to make the playoffs...

 

[Natebishop3]

I think the value of players like Ant is evolving...and it's not going up. Teams want versatility and they want that wing versatility (isn't that what we all desperately want for the Blazers?). They also want 3&D. Ant is not a wing and has not demonstrated any solid or consistent PG skills, so he has almost no versatility. He also has no D and isn't even elite at 3's.

and teams probably look at Ant and do not see a good starting level SG or starting level PG. They see a 6th-7th man. Unfortunately they also see a 6th-7th man on a 26M/year contract. And with the new tax rules and a very punitive new 2nd apron, a 26M/year backup who has no versatility and plays no D is a luxury most teams can't afford

now, I'm not saying all teams would see Ant that way, but I think a big majority would. And that will limit his value, IMO

Yeah. I posted it yesterday but he’s a pretty classic combo guard. He’s right there in the Jamal Crawford and Lou Williams mold. We just refuse, or he refuses to accept that he should be a bench player.

 

[HansenYang]

and teams probably look at Ant and do not see a good starting level SG or starting level PG. They see a 6th-7th man. Unfortunately they also see a 6th-7th man on a 26M/year contract. And with the new tax rules and a very punitive new 2nd apron, a 26M/year backup who has no versatility and plays no D is a luxury most teams can't afford

This is all I have ever seen with Ant.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

Ant is a very good offensive player who can score from all three levels. He’s hard working continues to improve every year. He’s also not afraid of taking the big shot. I personally like what I saw when he ran point with Dame out although took step backwards last year at PG. he would be a huge asset if they used him as 6th man.

he wouldn’t be happy but if we traded Dame and kept Scoot I would love a rotation of Scoot, Sharpe and Ant.

 

[riverman]

Toronto seems like the most likely place to trade Ant ...I'd consider Ant, the 23rd pick plus Nas and Keon and some second rounders for Pascal...not sure their GM would though...he's a problem with Toronto deals.

 

[glazeduck]

I've asked this before, re. Ant, and didn't really get an answer...

Are there next-gen stat splits for him -- offensively or defensively -- as a true PG, when Dame is not in the lineup?

I think his floor is as a bench-microwave, but I think he's got the build and handle to potentially be a halfway decent defender against smaller guards and likewise, a serviceable starter at PG.

 

[Natebishop3]

I've asked this before, re. Ant, and didn't really get an answer...

Are there next-gen stat splits for him -- offensively or defensively -- as a true PG, when Dame is not in the lineup?

I think his floor is as a bench-microwave, but I think he's got the build and handle to potentially be a halfway decent defender against smaller guards and likewise, a serviceable starter at PG.

I pulled the stats months ago but I had to do it manually and it was a pain in the ass. Long story short, Simons plays significantly better as the primary ball handler without Dame.

 

[glazeduck]

I pulled the stats months ago but I had to do it manually and it was a pain in the ass. Long story short, Simons plays significantly better as the primary ball handler without Dame.

That definitely tracks what my eyeballs have seen over the past couple years.

I also wonder too how much his lack of defensive success has to do with having to guard bigger guards...

 

[Phatguysrule]

Ant is a good player. But if we can get a similar caliber player at a position of greater need we should do it.

 

[wizenheimer]

I pulled the stats months ago but I had to do it manually and it was a pain in the ass. Long story short, Simons plays significantly better as the primary ball handler without Dame.

so did CJ....it didn't mean anything. Actually, what it meant was that after a full season of CJ at PG, New Orleans was desperate to get Scoot

 

[Natebishop3]

so did CJ....it didn't mean anything. Actually, what it meant was that after a full season of CJ at PG, New Orleans was desperate to get Scoot

CJ was never that efficient. Simons doesn't play like CJ. Beyond being the same size, they're nothing alike.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I'd like to see Dame Ant Scoot Sharpe. Sharpe gets a few minutes at SF. Yeah I know I'm in the minority, but it would be so awesome having a great backup guard duo plus coverage when inevitably one of them has injuries.

Id be ok with an Ant trade if it's really good value coming back. I don't see the Blazers contending soon so I'd want to see younger players or picks in return, nobody close to or over 30.

Only way I'd consider Ant for someone around age 30 or older is if it's the second of two moves to bring in contending level help.

Also before I move Ant I'd want more of a commitment from Dame. I wouldn't want to move Ant and a few months later Dame is demanding a trade.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

CJ was never that efficient. Simons doesn't play like CJ. Beyond being the same size, they're nothing alike.

Posters just want to take all their frustrations of CJ out on Ant.

I wonder if we draft Scoot how long it is until some posters do the same with him.

 

[wizenheimer]

CJ was never that efficient. Simons doesn't play like CJ. Beyond being the same size, they're nothing alike.

I agree they aren't the exact same type of players, but they sure are similar in several basic ways

the biggest difference, and it's why Ant has posted better efficiency, is 3pt attempt rate. Ant has a career mark of .542; CJ''s career mark is .366. CJ's habit was to over-dribble in order to get to mid-range shots. And when he got there he trashed his efficiency by pathologically avoiding contact. Ant doesn't over-dribble nearly as much even though, like CJ, he's allergic to contact. Ant's career FT rate is 16.2%; CJ's is 16.5%. They are both wimps

neither are PG's, but CJ is a bit better at some PG things than Ant. And they both suck at defense, but Ant sucks more

Ant is 24 so he does have some upside potential left. I just hope he reaches it on another team

 

[Natebishop3]

I agree they aren't the exact same type of players, but they sure are similar in several basic ways

the biggest difference, and it's why Ant has posted better efficiency, is 3pt attempt rate. Ant has a career mark of .542; CJ''s career mark is .366. CJ's habit was to over-dribble in order to get to mid-range shots. And when he got there he trashed his efficiency by pathologically avoiding contact. Ant doesn't over-dribble nearly as much even though, like CJ, he's allergic to contact. Ant's career FT rate is 16.2%; CJ's is 16.5%. They are both wimps

neither are PG's, but CJ is a bit better at some PG things than Ant. And they both suck at defense, but Ant sucks more

Ant is 24 so he does have some upside potential left. I just hope he reaches it on another team

CJ was one of the most frustrating players I think I have ever watched on this team. He was terrible at running a fast break. I always joked that his first, second, third, and four option on offense was CJ.

MeJ gonna MeJ.

I don’t think Simons is that bad, but I agree that they both suck at defense and neither is a point guard.

 

[glazeduck]

I agree they aren't the exact same type of players, but they sure are similar in several basic ways

the biggest difference, and it's why Ant has posted better efficiency, is 3pt attempt rate. Ant has a career mark of .542; CJ''s career mark is .366. CJ's habit was to over-dribble in order to get to mid-range shots. And when he got there he trashed his efficiency by pathologically avoiding contact. Ant doesn't over-dribble nearly as much even though, like CJ, he's allergic to contact. Ant's career FT rate is 16.2%; CJ's is 16.5%. They are both wimps

neither are PG's, but CJ is a bit better at some PG things than Ant. And they both suck at defense, but Ant sucks more

Ant is 24 so he does have some upside potential left. I just hope he reaches it on another team

This is all fair, I think the question from me is -- if we're trading Dame, and there's statistical evidence to suggest that Ant may perform better as a lead guard, as opposed to an off-ball guard, would it be smarter to let him showcase that before taking 60 cents on the dollar for him. I would suggest that it probably is...

 

[Phatguysrule]

I'd like to see Dame Ant Scoot Sharpe. Sharpe gets a few minutes at SF. Yeah I know I'm in the minority, but it would be so awesome having a great backup guard duo plus coverage when inevitably one of them has injuries.

Id be ok with an Ant trade if it's really good value coming back. I don't see the Blazers contending soon so I'd want to see younger players or picks in return, nobody close to or over 30.

Only way I'd consider Ant for someone around age 30 or older is if it's the second of two moves to bring in contending level help.

Also before I move Ant I'd want more of a commitment from Dame. I wouldn't want to move Ant and a few months later Dame is demanding a trade.

I don't think more commitment from Dame is possible or reasonable. He's as committed as any player in the league, and far more so than most.

 

[wizenheimer]

This is all fair, I think the question from me is -- if we're trading Dame, and there's statistical evidence to suggest that Ant may perform better as a lead guard, as opposed to an off-ball guard, would it be smarter to let him showcase that before taking 60 cents on the dollar for him. I would suggest that it probably is...

ok...that's all well...but not good in my view

if Portland is trading Dame, they should just say fuck it and go for high lottery picks for a few years. The best asset(s) the Blazers would get from a Dame trade are those high lottery picks for being a shitty team. The Blazers should trade Nurkic and trade Grant. Maybe Thybulle too although that wouldn't really matter

and they should dump Ant. No team is going to be fooled by Ant putting up bigger stats on a bad team. He's been in the NBA for 5 years. He's played in 290 games and started in a hundred. He's known, and jacking up his PPG from 21 to 24 as he channels MeJ isn't going to enhance his value. But what it could do is give Portland 3 or 4 more wins and that could drop them from a 3rd pick to a 9th pick

sorry, but there's no payoff in my view by keeping Ant around post-Dame

 

[TBpup]

I just can't see them keeping all 4 in the backcourt if the Blazers draft Scoot. Unless Dame suddenly asks out, it has to be Ant that is going. Majiri continues to be unrealistic about what he wants for PS or OG. Orlando still seems like the most natural fit for one of those Lottery picks.

Just what could Portland do with that to get a vet?

 

[Natebishop3]

I just can't see them keeping all 4 in the backcourt if the Blazers draft Scoot. Unless Dame suddenly asks out, it has to be Ant that is going. Majiri continues to be unrealistic about what he wants for PS or OG. Orlando still seems like the most natural fit for one of those Lottery picks.

Just what could Portland do with that to get a vet?

I just have this feeling..... that it's going to be Ayton. Or maybe KAT.

The Suns desperately need more depth and getting Simons/Nurk would help with that. Not saying I want it... just saying that it feels like the kind of move that Joe would make.