Why men shouldn't write advice columns

[Minstrel]

I didn't say which person was being unfaithful. In the case of a divorce, one or both of the parties involved are breaking a vow. That is being unfaithful.

Only if you're talking about a marriage structured that way, like a traditional Christian marriage, with the "for better or worse" vows. It's perfectly reasonable to marry without lifetime commitment promises. In which case, a divorce isn't breaking a vow or unfaithful.

 

[blazerboy30]

Only if you're talking about a marriage structured that way, like a traditional Christian marriage, with the "for better or worse" vows. It's perfectly reasonable to marry without lifetime commitment promises. In which case, a divorce isn't breaking a vow or unfaithful.

Whatever.

This entire thread is based on the typical assumption that the relationship was exclusive and commitments had been made to each other.

Not to mention the whole "death do us part" isn't just a "Christian marriage" thing.

 

[blazerboy30]

Just curious, would you prefer people wait longer to get married, to get to know the person better? Or is it just a matter of being more committed and put more effort into their marriages?

I personally think it is a combination of the two. I think our society has moved in a direction where people don't feel the need to take full responsibility for their actions and follow through on their commitments. It isn't just marriage. Our society has become a bunch of cowards who want to blame somebody else for all of their own problems.

 

[Eastoff]

I personally think it is a combination of the two. I think our society has moved in a direction where people don't feel the need to take full responsibility for their actions and follow through on their commitments. It isn't just marriage. Our society has become a bunch of cowards who want to blame somebody else for all of their own problems.

so you're saying you should accept that you're to blame for my problems?

 

[Natebishop3]

LoL. mutilated women? I take it, a women with breast implants is "mutilated".

Some say "mutilated", others say "enhanced."

 

[maxiep]

Just curious, would you prefer people wait longer to get married, to get to know the person better? Or is it just a matter of being more committed and put more effort into their marriages?

I waited a LOOOONG time to get married, both in terms of my age (late 30s) and how long I dated my wife-to-be (six years). I doubted my ability to stay faithful for the rest of my life to one woman, so I sowed as many wild oats as I could before I made a commitment. And after all that marriage is still a TON of work, but it's good work if you can get it.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I waited a LOOOONG time to get married, both in terms of my age (late 30s) and how long I dated my wife-to-be (six years). I doubted my ability to stay faithful for the rest of my life to one woman, so I sowed as many wild oats as I could before I made a commitment. And after all that marriage is still a TON of work, but it's good work if you can get it.

I, on the other hand, was 18 when I got married. However, I had known my bride-to-be for almost 6 years by that point, and she had been my best friend for 3 years before we began dating (for 2 more). But I also believe that even if a couple of teenagers get married after only 2 weeks, if they both have the attitude that marriage is permanent, that divorce is not an option, and that the goal of marriage is to make your spouse's life better (rather than expecting them to fulfill you), then I don't think age all that relevant.

 

[maxiep]

I, on the other hand, was 18 when I got married. However, I had known my bride-to-be for almost 6 years by that point, and she had been my best friend for 3 years before we began dating (for 2 more). But I also believe that even if a couple of teenagers get married after only 2 weeks, if they both have the attitude that marriage is permanent, that divorce is not an option, and that the goal of marriage is to make your spouse's life better (rather than expecting them to fulfill you), then I don't think age all that relevant.

Agreed 100%. I was merely talking about my own personal flaws. You're a much better person than I am. There is no way I would have been ready to make any kind of commitment, much less a life long one, at 18.

 

[Ed O]

I could see how someone might argue implants, airbrushing, and shaving ALL body hair is very artificial...

I think she meant getting a haircut and/or trimming one's nails.

Ed O.

 

[Minstrel]

Whatever.

This entire thread is based on the typical assumption that the relationship was exclusive and commitments had been made to each other.

I wasn't referring to open marriages. But you can be exclusive and make commitments without those commitments being lifetime commitments.

Not to mention the whole "death do us part" isn't just a "Christian marriage" thing.

It's from the Book of Common Prayer, which is a Christian thing. In any case, I used Christian marriage as an example of such marriages, not the only kind that calls for a lifetime vow.

 

[blazerboy30]

I wasn't referring to open marriages. But you can be exclusive and make commitments without those commitments being lifetime commitments.

And like I said, this entire thread is based on the assumption, that this relationship is our society's typical relationship in which commitments have been made. And our society's typical assumption (whether you agree with it or not) is that marriage is a lifetime commitment.

If you want to make an argument based on a corner case, go ahead and be my guest. It isn't interesting though.

 

[Minstrel]

And like I said, this entire thread is based on the assumption, that this relationship is our society's typical relationship in which commitments have been made. And our society's typical assumption (whether you agree with it or not) is that marriage is a lifetime commitment.

I don't agree with you, though, about what the "typical assumption" is. I think it's pretty obvious that these days people do not view marriage as a lifetime commitment. I think most people go into marriages realizing that it is not a lifetime commitment and that they'll divorce if it doesn't work out.

I don't think you're actually arguing the standard assumption...I think you're trying to play on the technicality of legacy words like "til death do us part," even if most people don't actually think that way these days.

 

[blazerboy30]

I don't agree with you, though, about what the "typical assumption" is. I think it's pretty obvious that these days people do not view marriage as a lifetime commitment. I think most people go into marriages realizing that it is not a lifetime commitment and that they'll divorce if it doesn't work out.

It doesn't matter what YOU agree with.

Why don't you get back to me with the percentage of marriages in our society that contain vows stating something like "lifetime" or "death do us part". You and I both know it will be the majority.

 

[Minstrel]

It doesn't matter what YOU agree with.

Why don't you get back to me with the percentage of marriages in our society that contain vows stating something like "lifetime" or "death do us part". You and I both know it will be the majority.

As I said, you're playing on a technicality...words that are merely (Christian, in this society) tradition, rather than what actual societal expectations are these days.

I thought you were interested in honest debate, not games-playing. Sorry to misunderstand you.

 

[blazerboy30]

As I said, you're playing on a technicality...words that are merely (Christian, in this society) tradition, rather than what actual societal expectations are these days.

I thought you were interested in honest debate, not games-playing. Sorry to misunderstand you.

No worries... you misunderstand often.

You want to turn my statement that the majority of weddings in our society contain vows related to "lifetime" into me "playing on a technicality". Clearly most people don't view the marriage ceremony and its significance as a technicality.

 

[Minstrel]

No worries... you misunderstand often.

If you feel that way, then I'm sorry that I incorrectly assume positive things about you too much.

Clearly most people don't view the marriage ceremony and its significance as a technicality.

Nice moving of the goal posts. You realized that it was silly to hang onto the technicality, that mouthing words based in tradition didn't mean that most of society sees marriage as a lifetime vow. So you moved on to a strawman about the "significance" of a marriage ceremony.

Marriage ceremonies are important to people. I think it's clear that it's no longer a societal expectation that marriages are lifetime pacts.

 

[blazerboy30]

Marriage ceremonies are important to people. I think it's clear that it's no longer a societal expectation that marriages are lifetime pacts.

Nice moving of the goal posts.

I said "lifetime"-ish vows are made during marriages, the majority of weddings. I never said that societal expectation is that marriages are for a lifetime. If you want to argue whether those people mean them at the time or if they are just "technicalities", go for it. I'll smile and nod.

Clearly there are a lot of quitters refusing to take responsibility for themselves and their commitments, and it has become commonplace for people to give up on their marriages. And like I said, those people are breaking vows that they made.

It is unfortunate that you seem to also fall into and condone that mindset.

 

[Minstrel]

If you want to argue whether those people mean them at the time or if they are just "technicalities", go for it. I'll smile and nod.

Excellent. Who said civil discourse is gone?

Clearly there are a lot of quitters refusing to take responsibility for themselves and their commitments, and it has become commonplace for people to give up on their marriages. And like I said, those people are breaking vows that they made.

It is unfortunate that you seem to also fall into and condone that mindset.

Quitting is the best. I, myself, am a nine-time divorcee and I highly recommend it.

On a side note, I love your newly-coined term "lifetime-ish." I need to use that more.

 

[ABM]

why don't you ask your wife?

I'm assuming her answer would be "yes".

Well, it appears she will be leaving me. In fact, one of her "citations" against me was that I had occasionally delved into internet porn. She called it my "cyber girlfriend".

So, there ya go.

 

[blazerboy30]

Excellent. Who said civil discourse is gone?



Quitting is the best. I, myself, am a nine-time divorcee and I highly recommend it.

On a side note, I love your newly-coined term "lifetime-ish." I need to use that more.

Apology accepted.

 

[Eastoff]

Well, it appears she will be leaving me. In fact, one of her "citations" against me was that I had occasionally delved into internet porn. She called it my "cyber girlfriend".

So, there ya go.

Whoa really? That is awful man!

 

[ABM]

Whoa really? That is awful man!

Yep, really.

I just found a nice, little basement apartment in Milwaukie close to work.

I'm "hopeful" that this will be just a separation. We shall see, we shall see.

Anyway, thanks.

 

[Minstrel]

Apology accepted.

I accept your apology too.

 

[Wheels]

Yep, really.

I just found a nice, little basement apartment in Milwaukie close to work.

I'm "hopeful" that this will be just a separation. We shall see, we shall see.

Anyway, thanks.

sorry to hear that ABM. Hope everything works out for you.

 

[Eastoff]

Yep, really.

I just found a nice, little basement apartment in Milwaukie close to work.

I'm "hopeful" that this will be just a separation. We shall see, we shall see.

Anyway, thanks.

Well worst case scenario, if it doesn't, I'm sure we can go cougar hunting. Or would that be normal hunting?

 

[ABM]

Well worst case scenario, if it doesn't, I'm sure we can go cougar hunting. Or would that be normal hunting?

I remember meeting you at the Wheels Happy Hour. I said to myself, "That westnob dude seems like a pretty nice guy. Probably would be a cool dude to down a couple of brews with."

Well?

 

[MickZagger]

Well, it appears she will be leaving me. In fact, one of her "citations" against me was that I had occasionally delved into internet porn. She called it my "cyber girlfriend".

So, there ya go.

Dang, thats messed up. Sorry to hear about that.

Internet porn must be a big no-no.

 

[Eastoff]

I remember meeting you at the Wheels Happy Hour. I said to myself, "That westnob dude seems like a pretty nice guy. Probably would be a cool dude to down a couple of brews with."

Well?

as long as you're gentle ;] But honestly, I don't like beer. Well drinks for me, i'm kind of a wuss like that. We should have a general bs meet up soon!

 

[ABM]

as long as you're gentle ;] But honestly, I don't like beer. Well drinks for me, i'm kind of a wuss like that. We should have a general bs meet up soon!

Cokes are just as well.

That said, a general meet up sounds great.