Why not China?

[Rastapopoulos]

If I were the Chinese communist party, and I were truly intent on world domination, I would offer NBA players the salary they would be getting playing in the NBA to come over to China to play on one of the teams in the CBA. And if I were the players, I would accept, because as crazy Steph found out, there's oodles to be made in endorsements. (In fact, players like Ron Artest (sorry, MWP) and Shane Battier should definitely go anyway, because they have deals with Chinese shoe companies already.)

The grip the owners have is that they control access to the only league that pays massive salaries. But as we all know, the power of America is waning fast...

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Of course, it would be sort of obscene to have the players earning millions in a country where the average worker earns a tiny pittance, but maybe that would be a sobering lesson to them....

 

[Ed O]

The only reason those players matter is because of the NBA. If the entire league went over there, the NBA would restock with players and, after a few years, the Chinese league would dry up as the novelty went away and as good players got hurt and/or retired and were replaced by ... nothing.

Ed O.

 

[DeanMoriarty]

China and Paul Allen could start up a joint business by bringing the Blazers into the Chinese league next year.

This would give us a shot at contending for a championship. But the window is closing. Make it happen now, PA!

 

[Boob-No-More]

The only reason those players matter is because of the NBA. If the entire league went over there, the NBA would restock with players and, after a few years, the Chinese league would dry up as the novelty went away and as good players got hurt and/or retired and were replaced by ... nothing.

Ed O.

I don't think he meant this as a long term situation - just until a new CBA can be ironed out. It would weaken the owner's stance in that that players would all (other than unsigned free agents, which the Chinese teams could bid on) still be getting paid their usual salaries. Ironically, it could also work in the owners favor as it would grow the popularity of the NBA in China which would lead to increased sales of licensed merchandise, and possibly a lucrative TV deal in China as the fans may want to continue to want to follow their favorite players when they return to the states.

I doubt if it's realistic, but it does have some interesting implications if it did happen. Stern would probably love it. He's always trying to grow the NBA in other markets, and sending the whole damn league to China for a few months during the lockout would certainly help grow interest in the NBA in the world's largest market.

BNM

 

[Ed O]

I don't think he meant this as a long term situation - just until a new CBA can be ironed out. It would weaken the owner's stance in that that players would all (other than unsigned free agents, which the Chinese teams could bid on) still be getting paid their usual salaries. Ironically, it could also work in the owners favor as it would grow the popularity of the NBA in China which would lead to increased sales of licensed merchandise, and possibly a lucrative TV deal in China as the fans may want to continue to want to follow their favorite players when they return to the states.

I doubt if it's realistic, but it does have some interesting implications if it did happen. Stern would probably love it. He's always trying to grow the NBA in other markets, and sending the whole damn league to China for a few months during the lockout would certainly help grow interest in the NBA in the world's largest market.

I think that a lot of fans would be very turned off... some fans get upset when a player is willing to leave the team in their city for one in, say, LA. I can see a lot of NBA fans being outraged that the players would be willing to leave the country entirely in order to continue to get paid insanely high salaries.

As for the owners: it would shield them when they put replacement players in there. "The players LEFT," they could justifiably claim, "While it's unfortunate the last group of players decided to go overseas rather than work out their differences with the league, the NBA will do its best to reconnect with fans and allow new stars to emerge."

The new labor conditions for the NBA would be incredibly favorable to the owners, and (at least at first) some of those savings would be passed along to the fans.

After a year or three, between NBA drafts and stragglers coming back over from China, the NBA would be markedly different but still going forward, I think.

Ed O.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I guess this could be some nice payback for the Chinese always "taking our jyyobbbs"

 

[Boob-No-More]

I think that a lot of fans would be very turned off... some fans get upset when a player is willing to leave the team in their city for one in, say, LA. I can see a lot of NBA fans being outraged that the players would be willing to leave the country entirely in order to continue to get paid insanely high salaries.

And the players could blame the owners by saying, "THEY locked US out, WE didn't go on strike. If the owners hadn't locked us out, we'd be playing in the US right now".

As for the owners: it would shield them when they put replacement players in there. "The players LEFT," they could justifiably claim, "While it's unfortunate the last group of players decided to go overseas rather than work out their differences with the league, the NBA will do its best to reconnect with fans and allow new stars to emerge."

The quality of the product would be vastly inferior to what it is now - we're talking D-league, or worse. The entire NBA marketing program has been super star based for nearly 30 years. Without a single recognizable superstar, would fans even bother to come to the games? Season ticket sales and general ticket sales would drop off a cliff, as would merchandise sales. Who's going to buy the jersey of some guy they never even heard of? A couple years ago, the NBA tried using replacement refs during the preseason and it was a disaster. They quickly realized this and promptly worked out a new contract with the referees. Replacement players would be an even bigger disaster.

The new labor conditions for the NBA would be incredibly favorable to the owners, and (at least at first) some of those savings would be passed along to the fans.

Big deal. Lower ticket prices to see an inferior product and a bunch of players you've never heard of. Yeah, that's fine if you want to sell 3000 tickets a night in an arena that seats 20,000. The TV ratings would also suck. We're talking WNBA or D-league attendance and TV viewership levels. Seriously, after decades of marketing the superstar, why would any NBA fan attend or tune in to watch a bunch of no names?

After a year or three, between NBA drafts and stragglers coming back over from China, the NBA would be markedly different but still going forward, I think.

Yes, markedly worse.

BNM

 

[Ed O]

And the players could blame the owners by saying, "THEY locked US out, WE didn't go on strike. If the owners hadn't locked us out, we'd be playing in the US right now".

Yes, but they're in China. 15 hours ahead. Playing in another league. Who's going to listen to what they have to say?

The quality of the product would be vastly inferior to what it is now - we're talking D-league, or worse. The entire NBA marketing program has been super star based for nearly 30 years. Without a single recognizable superstar, would fans even bother to come to the games? Season ticket sales and general ticket sales would drop off a cliff, as would merchandise sales. Who's going to buy the jersey of some guy they never even heard of? A couple years ago, the NBA tried using replacement refs during the preseason and it was a disaster. They quickly realized this and promptly worked out a new contract with the referees. Replacement players would be an even bigger disaster.

I don't follow why the new NBA would be worse than the D-League. Some NBA players would stay, some international players would be lured, and the D-League could be raided to get the best players... I'm sure lots of those guys would be delighted to play in the League with significant salary upgrades.

In any case, the NBA sells (or at least CAN sell) competition. Not the best basketball players on the planet (although that is a product of selling competition and having the most money to spend).

Replacement refs were a failure because their jobs were simply too difficult: the players were the same and the expectations were the same, but the refs lack experience (and, probably, capability). They also were a failure because everyone knew the "real" refs were still around, waiting to get their jobs back.

A new batch of players wouldn't have that problem. They compete with one another and it would still be at a higher level than any league (other than China, which is on the other side of the planet, remember... who's going to watch an NBA game at 5:00 AM Pacific time?) and it would be exciting.

Further, if hundreds of NBA players had signed deals with China, and new labor rules were put in place in the NBA, the old NBA players aren't just waiting around to come back. The NBA would have to swallow hard and move forward.

Big deal. Lower ticket prices to see an inferior product and a bunch of players you've never heard of. Yeah, that's fine if you want to sell 3000 tickets a night in an arena that seats 20,000. The TV ratings would also suck. We're talking WNBA or D-league attendance and TV viewership levels. Seriously, after decades of marketing the superstar, why would any NBA fan attend or tune in to watch a bunch of no names?

I would. I'm a fan of the Portland Trail Blazers, not of any players, in particular. I know that I'm not representative, but I would expect fans to come around.

And the players would NOT be no names. They would be many college players that people know of.

Yes, markedly worse.

Worse from an skill perspective? Sure.

Worse from a competitive perspective? Maybe or maybe not.

Ed O.

 

[Draco]

Well the China league isn't established as the NBA, they don't have big endorsement deals, huge TV contracts or large corporate sponsorships. They have almost no revenue compared to the NBA. So who is going to foot this bill to pay similar salaries to NBA superstars? The Chinese government? I don't see how it’s in their interest to lose a billion dollars for a couple short years of NBA star exposure.

I do think the players could try to come up with some sort of league of their own, have it owned directly by the players. Maybe a short season similar to winter YMCA rec league basketball where you have 12 games over 4 weeks with a tournament at the end. If all the stars were on it you could get decent revenue from a TV deal. Have team captains; players are picked by the captains in a draft just like playground basketball. It wouldn’t be a complete replacement for the NBA, it would be a fun side project, a short season while the league is in limbo. If it’s successful it would help the players bargaining position and give them some income to tide them over until the lockout ends.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I think the union will pay right now for a huge error over the last decade. They're competing in just one country, but there's a global market out there. In theory, the union could announce next week that they are opening negotiations to send 200 players to Spain, Italy, France, Russia, Germany, Australia, Brazil, Greece -- maybe even England in advance of next summer's Olympics. But they will make no such announcement, as a group, because they are only in the business of dealing with one client, the NBA. But that doesn't mean players can't go overseas, and no one disputes NBA free agents (who will pay for being free agents now in their next, smaller deals) can head to play overseas right now if they want to. As for American players under contract, Larry Coon explains that if players want to play overseas, they need a letter from USA basketball saying it's OK. Coon: "In order to play professionally overseas, FIBA (the organizing body for international basketball) requires a Letter of Clearance from the player's national organizing body. In the case of players from the United States, that's USA Basketball. The Letter of Clearance certifies that the player is free to sign a contract -- i.e., he has no other contractual obligations that would get in the way. An NBA contract is such a contractual obligation. Lockout or not, it's still an existing contract. So on the surface, an NBA player who's under contract would not be allowed to sign in any FIBA league. NBA free agents, on the other hand, can sign wherever they'd like. But here's the rub -- we're getting into uncharted territory. FIBA has never found itself in this position before. FIBA could decide to alter or suspend its rule requiring a Letter of Clearance, or allow contracts to be signed so long as they contain language that says the contract becomes null and void immediately if the NBA lockout ends. More likely, FIBA simply would stick to its existing rule, essentially punting the problem to the national organizing bodies. These bodies (such as USA Basketball) could decide to issue a Letter of Clearance notwithstanding the NBA lockout. Or they could issue a Letter of Clearance with a specific notation about the lockout -- essentially punting the problem right back to FIBA. Finally, the NBA players could take FIBA and/or the national organizing bodies to court. The ability to block players in a lockout has never been tested through litigation, and once they're there, anything can happen."

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/30839/friday-lockout-bullets

 

[3RA1N1AC]

why cant the players just start their own league? keep ALL of the profits!

 

[3RA1N1AC]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/30839/friday-lockout-bullets

so your boss says you cant come to work and they arent going to pay you...but you cant get another job......seems like a court case would wipe that the fuck out

 

[Draco]

why cant the players just start their own league? keep ALL of the profits!

Well supposedly 22 of 30 teams are losing money; so if the players were also the owners most of the players would need to subtract the "profits" from their pay.

 

[Ed O]

why cant the players just start their own league? keep ALL of the profits!

Where are they going to play? Most of the decent venues in the US are either owned by NBA entities or have contracts with them (that presumably have some sort of exclusivity arrangement).

Ed O.

 

[Minstrel]

Worse from a competitive perspective? Maybe or maybe not.

I don't think people spend money to see just "competitive." Soccer games between five year olds are competitive, in that they're evenly matched. No one's interested (except those children's parents, of course). The same is true of basketball between ten year olds.

I think many fans want to see the game played at an extremely high level. If the current NBA players didn't exist, maybe the "next 200" would be viewed by the public as acceptably high level, since it would be the highest level available. But NBA fans are now used to what they've seen for years, plus the current players would still exist and, at the very very least, fans would still see clips and highlights of them from China. I think current D-League players and players who couldn't get drafted out of college would be extremely unsatisfying to most fans, because the quality of the game (as opposed to the competitiveness) would be much, much worse than the fans were used to.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Well supposedly 22 of 30 teams are losing money; so if the players were also the owners most of the players would need to subtract the "profits" from their pay.

well...they are losing money because of the salaries...so just stop paying rashard 20 million a year and break even?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

I don't think people spend money to see just "competitive." Soccer games between five year olds are competitive, in that they're evenly matched. No one's interested (except those children's parents, of course). The same is true of basketball between ten year olds.

I think many fans want to see the game played at an extremely high level. If the current NBA players didn't exist, maybe they "next 200" would be viewed by the public as acceptably high level, since it would be the highest level available. But NBA fans are now used to what they've seen for years, plus the current players would still exist and, at the very very least, they'd still see clips and highlights of them from China. I think current D-League players and players who couldn't get drafted out of college would be extremely unsatisfying to most fans, because the quality of the game (as opposed to the competitiveness) would be much, much worse than the fans were used to.

i think there are 100 players who can dunk like a young vc that would make them all forget about the "old" nba, the casual fan cares not for defense, they want to see dunks and a team in their general vicinity win it all

it wouldnt be immediate, but it would eventually happen

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Well supposedly 22 of 30 teams are losing money; so if the players were also the owners most of the players would need to subtract the "profits" from their pay.

http://deadspin.com/5816870/

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Where are they going to play? Most of the decent venues in the US are either owned by NBA entities or have contracts with them (that presumably have some sort of exclusivity arrangement).

Ed O.

well, they could have a team in seattle! lol san jose, anahiem, kansas city, vegas, there are arenas everywhere, maybe not state of the art, but plenty good enough to get the job done, hell every big college arena would love the extra revenue im sure, hell manchester nh has a 10k seat arena

 

[Denny Crane]

I think the players have contracts, still, and are not legally able to sign overseas. The UFAs might be free to go. But what if they did go, and the owners and scab players agree to a new CBA? Why wouldn't those currently under contract be obligated by what they signed?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

More kids in this country play "soccer" than any other sport. Yet the MLS is still fairly small potatoes. And any really good American player goes overseas. In other words, despite a lot of interest in America in the sport and huge reserves of money, the MLS doesn't even approach European leagues. If the current NBA players really committed to China, why couldn't the same situation apply? (I see American kids wearing Chelsea and Man United and Barcelona shirts but I have never seen anyone wearing a MLS shirt.)

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I think the players have contracts, still, and are not legally able to sign overseas.

So you're saying: your boss locks you out and refuses to pay you, AND you're legally bound not to get another job? I don't think so!

The UFAs might be free to go. But what if they did go, and the owners and scab players agree to a new CBA? Why wouldn't those currently under contract be obligated by what they signed?

Because it's an agreement with the owners and the union, not the scab players.

 

[Minstrel]

I think the players have contracts, still, and are not legally able to sign overseas.

Assuming those contracts were being honored, that would make sense. I have a hard time believing that a court would agree that contracts have meaning for only one side, but the other side is free to ignore it.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

In order to play professionally overseas, FIBA (the organizing body for international basketball) requires a Letter of Clearance from the player's national organizing body. In the case of players from the United States, that's USA Basketball. The Letter of Clearance certifies that the player is free to sign a contract -- i.e., he has no other contractual obligations that would get in the way. An NBA contract is such a contractual obligation. Lockout or not, it's still an existing contract. So on the surface, an NBA player who's under contract would not be allowed to sign in any FIBA league.

 

[Ed O]

I don't think people spend money to see just "competitive." Soccer games between five year olds are competitive, in that they're evenly matched. No one's interested (except those children's parents, of course). The same is true of basketball between ten year olds.

That's because fans think (know) they're better than the competitors.

It's a problem for the WNBA: lots of (male) potential fans see women that are their size or smaller, and they THINK they could play with them (even if there's no chance in hell)... part of that is being used to seeing NBA players play, of course.

I think many fans want to see the game played at an extremely high level. If the current NBA players didn't exist, maybe the "next 200" would be viewed by the public as acceptably high level, since it would be the highest level available. But NBA fans are now used to what they've seen for years, plus the current players would still exist and, at the very very least, fans would still see clips and highlights of them from China. I think current D-League players and players who couldn't get drafted out of college would be extremely unsatisfying to most fans, because the quality of the game (as opposed to the competitiveness) would be much, much worse than the fans were used to.

I think that fans would adapt quickly. I doubt we'll ever find out.

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

In order to play professionally overseas, FIBA (the organizing body for international basketball) requires a Letter of Clearance from the player's national organizing body. In the case of players from the United States, that's USA Basketball. The Letter of Clearance certifies that the player is free to sign a contract -- i.e., he has no other contractual obligations that would get in the way. An NBA contract is such a contractual obligation. Lockout or not, it's still an existing contract. So on the surface, an NBA player who's under contract would not be allowed to sign in any FIBA league.

A Chinese government pro league could be outside of the reach of FIBA, presumably.

Ed O.

 

[Boob-No-More]

In order to play professionally overseas, FIBA (the organizing body for international basketball) requires a Letter of Clearance from the player's national organizing body. In the case of players from the United States, that's USA Basketball. The Letter of Clearance certifies that the player is free to sign a contract -- i.e., he has no other contractual obligations that would get in the way. An NBA contract is such a contractual obligation. Lockout or not, it's still an existing contract. So on the surface, an NBA player who's under contract would not be allowed to sign in any FIBA league.

Well, if the Chinese government decided to set up a rogue league for NBA players, why would they care about FIBA approval? I'm not saying they'd do it, but I don't see anything stopping them. It's not like they would be signing these players to contracts to play on the Chinese national team. It would be a separate league made up of just current NBA players.

Why would they do it? To expose their people to and create interest in the best basketball players in the world so they could improve the quality of their local athletes. The Chinese government spent millions to analyze the diving technique and form of Greg Louganis so their divers could copy and improve upon his technique. China now has the top divers in the word and regularly dominates at the Olympics and other international competitions. And, diving isn't even a big money sport. Getting the Chinese people exposed to and excited about basketball played at the highest level can only help improve the quality of Chinese basketball in the future.

BNM

 

[MARIS61]

Of course, it would be sort of obscene to have the players earning millions in a country where the average worker earns a tiny pittance, but maybe that would be a sobering lesson to them....

That's the current situation, so I see no lesson to be learned.

 

[Sug]

Of course, it would be sort of obscene to have the players earning millions in a country where the average worker earns a tiny pittance, but maybe that would be a sobering lesson to them....

Are we talking about the United States or China?