Why you need tough players

[hasoos]

Eddie Johnson is right on the money here:

http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/2010/03/19/too-much-love/


1. I hate that the NBA has clamped down on celebrations. Celebrations made games more intense.

2. I hate what has gone on with fighting in the NBA. Guys like Bruce Bowen used to not be able to exists. If they did something dirty, they would get the shit kicked out of them. Now they have no fear, and can play their dirty little tricks without worry.

3. This is exactly why the group of guys we have now, won't get it done until we get some more nasty on the team. It is a mindset. It is something you can't turn on and off. You have to be ready to physically kick ass.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

I really agree with #2

If Varejao flopped like he did with Bill Lambier the next time down Bill would get his money's worth with an elbow to the neck.

 

[MickZagger]

I really agree with #2

If Varejao flopped like he did with Bill Lambier the next time down Bill would get his money's worth with an elbow to the neck.

Laimbeer was an elbow thrower and roughneck player, but he also was known to be a bit of a salesman and whiner on the court to refs as well.

I blame the tightened rules on the herds of European players like Divac and Sabonis that came over mastered the aspect of selling the call to the refs. Since then, its taken a mind of its own.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Eddie Johnson is right on the money here:

http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/2010/03/19/too-much-love/


1. I hate that the NBA has clamped down on celebrations. Celebrations made games more intense.

2. I hate what has gone on with fighting in the NBA. Guys like Bruce Bowen used to not be able to exists. If they did something dirty, they would get the shit kicked out of them. Now they have no fear, and can play their dirty little tricks without worry.

3. This is exactly why the group of guys we have now, won't get it done until we get some more nasty on the team. It is a mindset. It is something you can't turn on and off. You have to be ready to physically kick ass.

I tend to agree ... http://www.sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155548

 

[Minstrel]

I think virtually all of the players in the league are a hell of a lot "tougher" than the rest of us. I don't think there's much analytic benefit to equating a player's most effective style of play with being weak or lacking manhood. IMO, it's largely just pseudo-macho posturing on the part of some fans. I doubt Aldridge's lack of a low post game is due to him being weak and frightened and more to do with being less talented at playing in the post and more talented at the face-up/high-post game.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think virtually all of the players in the league are a hell of a lot "tougher" than the rest of us. I don't think there's much analytic benefit to equating a player's most effective style of play with being weak or lacking manhood. IMO, it's largely just pseudo-macho posturing on the part of some fans. I doubt Aldridge's lack of a low post game is due to him being weak and frightened and more to do with being less talented at playing in the post and more talented at the face-up/high-post game.

Perhaps, but maybe I'm biased because I wrestled for 10 years through grade school and high school and participated in Jiu-jitsu off and on throughout my adulthood, but there are people who seek contact and those who avoid it, and frequently it has a whole lot to do with innate toughness (and maybe being a little imbalanced?).

Lamarcus (who I kind of like) is very skilled in the areas you talk about and maybe not as skilled in the post, but he also has the kind of body language on the court that seems to suggest he doesn't like contact -- it's no great leap to then suggest that he's maybe a little deficient in the toughness department. On the other hand, I see guys like Cunningham, Roy, Bayless, Pendergraph and even Nic who seem to enjoy bumping into people (or at least don't retreat from it) and I start to think that maybe they are a little tougher.

 

[KingSpeed]

out of them. Now they have no fear, and can play their dirty little tricks without worry.

3. This is exactly why the group of guys we have now, won't get it done until we get some more nasty on the team. It is a mindset. It is something you can't turn on and off. You have to be ready to physically kick ass.

I disagree. Who was nasty on the 2009 Champion Lakers? Sasha Vujacic?

 

[Nikolokolus]

I disagree. Who was nasty on the 2009 Champion Lakers? Sasha Vujacic?

Kobe?

Really though, it's not about being a chest thumping tough guy, it's about being a cold-blooded tough guy -- people that don't blink when they get popped in the face, people that get mad/determined instead of shrinking. Maybe this Blazers team has a few of those guys, but I think the jury is still out.

 

[KingSpeed]

Kobe?

Really though, it's not about being a chest thumping tough guy, it's about being a cold-blooded tough guy -- people that don't blink when they get popped in the face, people that get mad/determined instead of shrinking. Maybe this Blazers team has a few of those guys, but I think the jury is still out.

Roy is cold blooded. So was Blake. Pendergraph is definitely a tough motherfucker. So was Joel.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Roy is cold blooded. So was Blake. Pendergraph is definitely a tough motherfucker. So was Joel.

Roy yes, Steve? 6'3" 175 lbs. dripping wet, Pendergraph? raw as hell and not in the rotation. This team needs regulars that give this team an edge.

 

[Further]

It reminds me of an interview in the world of Poker. Barry Greenstine (a poker legend) was being asked why people thought Phil Ivey (Amazing pro poker player worth hundreds of millions) was the best poker player in the world. Barry said that Phil does not care about the money he wins, he is completely fixated on the money he can make his opponent lose. The more pain he can cause, the greater the thrill. Phil is uber rich and does not need to win another $1,000,000 pot, so he gets his motivation from knowing how winning that pot will destroy his opponents (friends in many cases).

Poker, Golf, Basketball, it does not matter. You have to get your inspiration from somewhere to be a great player game after game after game. Winning becomes old as a source of inspiration. So tough players focus on destroying their opponents. That personalizes the situation and enables longer lasting inspiration.

 

[Nikolokolus]

It reminds me of an interview in the world of Poker. Barry Greenstine (a poker legend) was being asked why people thought Phil Ivey (Amazing pro poker player worth hundreds of millions) was the best poker player in the world. Barry said that Phil does not care about the money he wins, he is completely fixated on the money he can make his opponent lose. The more pain he can cause, the greater the thrill. Phil is uber rich and does not need to win another $1,000,000 pot, so he gets his motivation from knowing how winning that pot will destroy his opponents (friends in many cases).

Poker, Golf, Basketball, it does not matter. You have to get your inspiration from somewhere to be a great player game after game after game. Winning becomes old as a source of inspiration. So tough players focus on destroying their opponents. That personalizes the situation and enables longer lasting inspiration.

Exactly.

It's all subjective, but I still get the feeling from this Blazers team that most of them get motivation from wanting to be 'good' (good guys, good players, good teammates -- just good). I rarely see anybody with that look of 'I'm going to rip your heart out and show it to you.' I have no idea how to describe the difference, but it's like the difference between fine art nudes and porn; I know the difference when I see it.

EDIT: I should say, that when Bayless goes aggro to the hoop and when Batum has sought out Gasol and flashed his finger(s) at him to let him know he just dunked on him, those are the kinds of signs I'm looking for.

 

[Further]

Exactly.

It's all subjective, but I still get the feeling from this Blazers team that most of them get motivation from wanting to be 'good' (good guys, good players, good teammates -- just good). I rarely see anybody with that look of 'I'm going to rip your heart out and show it to you.' I have no idea how to describe the difference, but it's like the difference between fine art nudes and porn; I know the difference when I see it.

EDIT: I should say, that when Bayless goes aggro to the hoop and when Batum has sought out Gasol and flashed his finger(s) at him to let him know he just dunked on him, those are the kinds of signs I'm looking for.

That Batum move was the first thing I thought of regarding the Blazers. It's interesting, but I think Aldridge is a real nice guy, but when he does get worked up, he really turns aggro as well. Kind of the last person on the face of things that I would point out as being tough, but he has shown spurts, especially against dickheads or dirty players. Bayless, yes, although less this year than last year.

I think it's just a mentality that some players have and most of the Blazers don't (except Przybilla RIP). All throughout schooling, players are expected to shake their opponents hands at the end of the game and everyone says "good game". Although this might teach something that's good for producing quality citizens, it really does nothing to instill the hatred needed to produce the evil on-court bastards we wish we had more of.