Would you prefer it if Oden gave up on more plays?

[Deebag]

I know many people complain about Oden's foul trouble. But most of the time, it's because our guards get beat on the perimeter and drive to the basket, and Oden is forced to jump up and contest it. However, I've seen many big men simply give up on plays. When a drive looks like it can't be stopped, some centers and PF's will simply stand and watch. Oden never does this, he will never give up on a play. And because of that, he gets into foul trouble quite frequently. At the same time, he never gives up anything easy to the opponent.

And while we're on the subject, why does McMillan never allow Oden to foul out? Almost as if having a foul-out on the stat sheet will get him suspended or something. If he has 5 fouls, leave him out and tell him to not be scared of getting that 6th foul because at the very least, it'll be a few more moments with him on the court. This drives me nuts.

 

[Miksaid]

I can't comment on your first point but I agree with your second one. The only reason I could think of as to why Nate wouldn't let Oden just foul out is maybe he's afraid of the small chance that the opposing team catches up and forces the game into OT. He'd need to use Oden just in case.... I guess.

No idea.

You're practically limiting an already foul-prone player to only 5 fouls a game. Oden won't get any experience that way.

 

[MrJayremmie]

I think that he should learn which plays are ok to not contest because you have no chance. Not try to block everyone, because he needs to stay on the court. That will also come with time, imo.

 

[tlongII]

As long as we have Przybilla I see no problem with Oden going after everything. That's why we have 12 fouls to give at the center spot. Our defense has been vastly improved in just these last 3 games.

 

[MrJayremmie]

It really is incredible how much better we are with Greg. We are arguably playing our best bball of the year right now, and it coincided with Greg's return (starting Game 1).

 

[cdub503]

It really is incredible how much better we are with Greg. We are arguably playing our best bball of the year right now, and it coincided with Greg's return (starting Game 1).

I agree I love oden people are scared to drive in on him and he commands double teams the fact that he's able to pass out of the double teams a lot of the time let's us get easy points especially if we swing the ball well. People hate on him way too blindly because he's not putting up 20/10/5 which is pretty rediculous as he's just coming off an intense surgery that takes a few years to get full confidence back. I'm no doctor but him throwin up double doubles more than any other rookie after coming off surgery is quite ok with me.

At the topic I think he will learn when to swat and when not to with time hopefully by next year more hopefully by playoffs

 

[craigehlo]

It really is incredible how much better we are with Greg. We are arguably playing our best bball of the year right now, and it coincided with Greg's return (starting Game 1).

When he's in the game, the opponents almost never get 2nd chance points. I would rather he didn't contest every shot and just move out of the way when it's too late. Dwight Howard is very good at sensing when to let a guy get a shot off because the refs probably won't give him the call. Oden should watch his game tape.

 

[mook]

He's building a reputation for shot blocking and defense, and he's also learning for himself what will and won't be called against him. I'd rather he go after everything, rather than have him guess what will and won't be called.

Two or three years from now when he's established his reputation and he's learned how to judge those situations on instinct, I'd like him to be more careful. By then there will also be a drastic difference in performance between him and Przybilla, so we'll lose a lot more by having him in foul trouble.

For now, though, Oden should go after everything. That's what Przybilla always did, and in a few seasons he went from Foulzilla to The Thrilla.

 

[alex42083]

I don't know about giving up on plays as I think Joel does a pretty good job of contesting nearly every single play. The difference I see is Joel is able to avoid body contact down low and is meeting opposing players at the apex of their shot and is blocking it at the top. It's all about timing.
Greg, however, is getting guys down low, his timing is off and he's not moving his feet fast enough to get in the right position. That will only be fixed with time and experience.

But I agree that Nate should let Greg play it out when he gets five fouls. If Nate isn't going to put Greg back in the game anyway, might as well play him and see if he can avoid picking up a sixth foul.

And also, the idiot Jon Barry on the ABC pregame show this morning was at it again saying Greg was not going to be a factor at all for us in the playoffs.

 

[Paxil]

I can remember when Joel couldn't stay in the game because of fouls. He plays the same way now... they refs just adjusted. I say keep Oden the same.

What is sad to me is that one of the 'best' defensive plays is to now just stand there perfectly still in front of someone to get them to run into you. You've got to be kidding me. My 5 year old is an expert at that. I think they need just stop blowing the whistle every time two players bump. That one call they LOVE to blow the whistle on... yet they let stuff go like the stiff are to the face after half the shots.

 

[mikeg]

two of his fouls against the bucks were on plays that he had no chance of stopping, so yes, he should let some stuff go at the rim. i hope pryz is teaching him all the tricks of getting the ball, but not the body on blocks.

i also think the refs are picking on greg a bit. not sure why, but he's being held to a much tighter standard than pryz on inside contact. and that moving pick call yesterday was a joke.

 

[Draco]

No.

 

[oldmangrouch]

When Ewing first came into the league, people called him "the paratrooper". He left his feet to contest every shot....every fake.....every fart from the peanut vendor! He got credit for a ton of blocks and steals - but he also gave the other team easy baskets, goal-tends, and trips to the foul line.

Blocked shots and steals don't always = good defense. If Oden is just being over-anxious, he will figure that out. If he is hacking because he no longer has the mobility he had in college, that is a bigger problem.

 

[Samuel]

I think Nate is just trying to establish that going forward, if he picks up two fouls in the first quarter, gets his third in the second, fourth in the 3rd, etc., that he will have to come out of the game. Nate could probably get a little bit more run out of the big fella, but long term Oden will have a solid understanding of the stuff that you should bite on and the stuff that you should let pass.

 

[PapaG]

I know many people complain about Oden's foul trouble. But most of the time, it's because our guards get beat on the perimeter and drive to the basket, and Oden is forced to jump up and contest it. However, I've seen many big men simply give up on plays. When a drive looks like it can't be stopped, some centers and PF's will simply stand and watch. Oden never does this, he will never give up on a play. And because of that, he gets into foul trouble quite frequently. At the same time, he never gives up anything easy to the opponent.

And while we're on the subject, why does McMillan never allow Oden to foul out? Almost as if having a foul-out on the stat sheet will get him suspended or something. If he has 5 fouls, leave him out and tell him to not be scared of getting that 6th foul because at the very least, it'll be a few more moments with him on the court. This drives me nuts.

So the guards only get beat when Oden is in the game? I say that because Przy somehow manages to stay pretty much out of foul trouble.

 

[Minstrel]

We should also remember that Oden's instincts are connected with the athleticism he's had throughout his playing career, which he's still recovering. Some of those balls that he goes after that seem "no chance" may well turn out to be spectacular defensive plays once he's back to full explosiveness. Right now, he can't make all the plays his instincts have told him he can, so he's bound to collect more fouls.

I think it would be a big mistake to have him try to consciously limit his aggressiveness in response to a temporary physical condition. Better that he continues to play naturally even if it means some adverse effects, like fouls, until he's back to his pre-draft shape.

 

[Kaydow]

I don't think there's any question Greg needs to play smarter when he's in foul trouble early in the game. I'm talking about games where he picks up 2 early fouls in 2/3 minutes and it's still the 1st quarter. He's got to learn how to not get that 3rd foul. If forces Nate to go back to Joel too early (or even Frye! Uggg) By all means be aggressive, but adjust when you're getting whistled. Countless, countless times this year I see Greg picking up stupid fouls being overaggressive trying to block shots, over the top trying for an offensive rebound, reaching in, hip checking, or setting a moving screen when he's already in foul trouble. I'm trying not to bag on him these days, but I still haven't seen much improvement in this area. Truthfully, I don't care about his offense right now. I just want him to rebound and play defense and stay on the floor!! If we're going to make any kind of a run we need him to play more than 9-12 minutes.

I understand not giving up layups in the 4th quarter of a close game. In that case, you have to drop the hammer on somebody even if you have 5 fouls. Joel will conceed baskets all the time when he's trying to avoid picking up his 3rd foul in the first half, or his 4th foul in the 3rd quarter, or his 5th foul early in the 4th, etc.

That's all I'd like to see from Greg these days. I'm not even thinking about 20/10 from him right now (as another poster mentioned)

 

[Nikolokolus]

I'm much comfortable with 'over aggressive' Oden, than 'too passive' Oden.

Part of the problem Minstrel alluded to; his athleticism isn't quite what was, but the other part is that officials are calling him like he's a rookie, he's getting absolutely no benefit of the doubt and in some cases officials are making anticipatory calls (like the clean block on Gadzuric that was called a foul last night).

I think he'll get it under control as he learns what he can and can't get away with, and I think the refs will also learn how to call things after officiating enough times with him on the court.

 

[mgb]

I think the he could improve on the fouls he gets when he sets screens. To many times he throws a hip out instead of getting solid in the way of the defender. Rice was blaming it on the player he was setting the pick for, but either way if he's not in position just don't make the pick.