WOW who's the villian?

[magnifier661]

Ok. eliminate the tax then I guess. evil govt. fixing our roads and stuff.

U aren't too far from the truth. The state lottery is supposed to generate funds for the school system, but only 10% of the proceeds actually make it to the schools. In fact california has even dipped into the lottery fund to pay other budgets.

 

[RR7]

U aren't too far from the truth. The state lottery is supposed to generate funds for the school system, but only 10% of the proceeds actually make it to the schools. In fact california has even dipped into the lottery fund to pay other budgets.

if the lottery were connected to schooling as directly as gas is to transportation, I'd worry about that more.

 

[magnifier661]

And I'm not advocating to eliminate the tax but I want to know where this accountability is. Also, it puts a perspective on what these gas companies actually make. It's not much in terms of %.

 

[RR7]

And I'm not advocating to eliminate the tax but I want to know where this accountability is. Also, it puts a perspective on what these gas companies actually make. It's not much in terms of %.

but take the tax off of their, and their profit would be the same amount. So they're in an industry where the profit margin is small. Lot's of things are like that. They can cut their adveritising budgets, cut other expenses if they want more pure profit, I suppose.

 

[RR7]

And I'm not advocating to eliminate the tax but I want to know where this accountability is. Also, it puts a perspective on what these gas companies actually make. It's not much in terms of %.

I imagine the accountability is the same place with ALL things we're taxed on. Running through 45 different departments, with none talking to the other.

 

[magnifier661]

if the lottery were connected to schooling as directly as gas is to transportation, I'd worry about that more.

The worry because that's what the tax is supposed to go to transportation

 

[PapaG]

U aren't too far from the truth. The state lottery is supposed to generate funds for the school system, but only 10% of the proceeds actually make it to the schools. In fact california has even dipped into the lottery fund to pay other budgets.

In Oregon, almost 10% of all tax revenue goes to the PERS fund to pay out people's retirements. That figure is only going to go up as more people on the plan retire at a faster rate than people on the plan are dying.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

In Oregon, almost 10% of all tax revenue goes to the PERS fund to pay out people's retirements. That figure is only going to go up as more people on the plan retire at a faster rate than people on the plan are dying.

This is a big concern. How will the state pay for this in 10 years and many more people are on PERS? We've already seen income taxes raised and new and higher fees. What's next?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I really don't have a problem with the gas tax. A use tax is one of the more fair types of taxation that we have. Now I do have a problem with the gas tax being used for other things besides roads and infrastructure, in Portland for instance 25% of our local gas tax is being used for bicycle paths. But the gas tax? Sorry but the people and or businesses that use the roads the most should be the ones that pay for it.

And Mags you have to admit it's kind of funny that you're bringing this up when you just drove up here from LA and back in a rig that is getting 12-14 miles per gallon.

 

[RR7]

I really don't have a problem with the gas tax. A use tax is one of the more fair types of taxation that we have. Now I do have a problem with the gas tax being used for other things besides roads and infrastructure, in Portland for instance 25% of our local gas tax is being used for bicycle paths. But the gas tax? Sorry but the people and or businesses that use the roads the most should be the ones that pay for it.

And Mags you have to admit it's kind of funny that you're bringing this up when you just drove up here from LA and back in a rig that is getting 12-14 miles per gallon.

Just to play devil's advocate, improving and increasing bicycle transportation would theoretically make the roads nicer for drivers, since there'd be less traffic to deal with. Like paying a tax to not have to deal with some drivers. Though I do think there should be a means for charging bikers, in a sense, whether it be through bicycle registration or what, I don't know.

 

[magnifier661]

I really don't have a problem with the gas tax. A use tax is one of the more fair types of taxation that we have. Now I do have a problem with the gas tax being used for other things besides roads and infrastructure, in Portland for instance 25% of our local gas tax is being used for bicycle paths. But the gas tax? Sorry but the people and or businesses that use the roads the most should be the ones that pay for it.

And Mags you have to admit it's kind of funny that you're bringing this up when you just drove up here from LA and back in a rig that is getting 12-14 miles per gallon.

Well I can afford gas and I'm not really bitching about that part of it. What I'm more concerned with is how the money is used. I keep bringing up the lottery because there is a HUGE amount of revenue generated by the State Lottery and only a small portion of it is being used for the school system. And then I watch as schools are down sizing and more costs are having to be paid by the parents of the children that are supposed to have a free education.

And another reason I brought it up was our conversation you, Kathryn, Joanna and myself had on our way to Mt. Hood. I was appalled that the local government is okay with using a large portion of the gas tax for something that doesn't pertain to vehicles needing gas. How about widening the roads? Maybe make public transportation free? I saw that bridge we passed under and saw a special tunnel just for bicycles and was "Is that for the train?!" You responded "I think it's for bicycles" LOL

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Just to play devil's advocate, improving and increasing bicycle transportation would theoretically make the roads nicer for drivers, since there'd be less traffic to deal with. Like paying a tax to not have to deal with some drivers. Though I do think there should be a means for charging bikers, in a sense, whether it be through bicycle registration or what, I don't know.

What I failed to mention is the $600 million dollars the water bureau is going to be spending on bike paths in Portland for the next 10 years.

Both the change to the local gas tax or the $600 million going to be spent by the water bureau on bike projects was ever presented to the voters.

I have no idea how to get bike riders to pay for the improvements that they want. But I would like a say in ideas (ie voting) that others come up with.

 

[magnifier661]

Just to play devil's advocate, improving and increasing bicycle transportation would theoretically make the roads nicer for drivers, since there'd be less traffic to deal with. Like paying a tax to not have to deal with some drivers. Though I do think there should be a means for charging bikers, in a sense, whether it be through bicycle registration or what, I don't know.

I drove through Portland. For every bicycle; there were 1,000 cars. I doubt that this puts a dent into traffic.

 

[magnifier661]

What I failed to mention is the $600 million dollars the water bureau is going to be spending on bike paths in Portland for the next 10 years.

Both the change to the local gas tax or the $600 million going to be spent by the water bureau on bike projects was ever presented to the voters.

I have no idea how to get bike riders to pay for the improvements that they want. But I would like a say in ideas (ie voting) that others come up with.

Or maybe "bike riders" pay a licensing fee for the privilege to ride their bikes in the great city of Portland? LOL

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Well I can afford gas and I'm not really bitching about that part of it. What I'm more concerned with is how the money is used. I keep bringing up the lottery because there is a HUGE amount of revenue generated by the State Lottery and only a small portion of it is being used for the school system. And then I watch as schools are down sizing and more costs are having to be paid by the parents of the children that are supposed to have a free education.

And another reason I brought it up was our conversation you, Kathryn, Joanna and myself had on our way to Mt. Hood. I was appalled that the local government is okay with using a large portion of the gas tax for something that doesn't pertain to vehicles needing gas. How about widening the roads? Maybe make public transportation free? I saw that bridge we passed under and saw a special tunnel just for bicycles and was "Is that for the train?!" You responded "I think it's for bicycles" LOL

We're going to have such great bicycle paths here in Portland that the next time you drive up here you'll have bikes strapped to your Jeep! We're going to be the Disneyland of bike paths!

 

[magnifier661]

We're going to have such great bicycle paths here in Portland that the next time you drive up here you'll have bikes strapped to your Jeep! We're going to be the Disneyland of bike paths!

Do I get to cut in front of cars and hit pedistrians too?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Or maybe "bike riders" pay a licensing fee for the privilege to ride their bikes in the great city of Portland? LOL

There are websites that tell bike riders here that if a car cuts you off how they can issue a citizen ticket by writing down the car's plate number and submitting a complaint to the cops. But if a bike rider blows through a stop sign or cuts me off I have no way of issuing them a citizen ticket. Even the city has admitting they catch bike riders all the time on red light cameras but they have no way to issue them tickets. I would welcome license plates on bikes.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Do I get to cut in front of cars and hit pedistrians too?

Only if you're in the Mr Toad's Wild Ride portion of the Disneyland bike path.

 

[RR7]

There are websites that tell bike riders here that if a car cuts you off how they can issue a citizen ticket by writing down the car's plate number and submitting a complaint to the cops. But if a bike rider blows through a stop sign or cuts me off I have no way of issuing them a citizen ticket. Even the city has admitting they catch bike riders all the time on red light cameras but they have no way to issue them tickets. I would welcome license plates on bikes.

just hit 'em.
I ride my bike a lot. I hate riders like that who drive like idiots, giving the majority of us a bad name. It's frustrating to see. Generally, it's without a helmet, also.

 

[RR7]

and I'd happily put a plate on my bike, and pay fees, to "pay my share" in a sense. I'm sure tons of bikers would be opposed, but, lots of people don't like stuff.

 

[barfo]

There are websites that tell bike riders here that if a car cuts you off how they can issue a citizen ticket by writing down the car's plate number and submitting a complaint to the cops. But if a bike rider blows through a stop sign or cuts me off I have no way of issuing them a citizen ticket. Even the city has admitting they catch bike riders all the time on red light cameras but they have no way to issue them tickets. I would welcome license plates on bikes.

No need for that. Implant RFID chips in every citizen and just read the chip. You can not only take care of stop signs, but you can also track movement and thus charge them by the mile.

barfo

 

[jlprk]

Don't forget that the oil and gas companies have to put money back into their business. Exploration, maintenance, new permits, distribution, R &D, etc. etc.

You don't know what "profit" means, do you. Not only has that stuff been subtracted in the profit calculation, the companies get it back a second time as huge tax breaks for those activities. Of course, they get it back a third time in future profits from new mines and inventions which those activities discover--which is why oil companies do those activities in the first place.

 

[barfo]

Do I get to cut in front of cars and hit pedistrians too?

Like you don't already. Sheesh.

barfo

 

[jlprk]

Other than collecting the taxes, what investment does government put into this industry? Some tax credits? What government does with that money after it is collected is irrelevant to this discussion. They have no "skin in the game", to borrow a phrase from a current politician.

You don't know that government keeps the whole transportation system moving, free to oil companies? Do the companies own freeways, pay police to patrol them, etc.?

Dum-dum as usual.

 

[Denny Crane]

You don't know what "profit" means, do you. Not only has that stuff been subtracted in the profit calculation, the companies get it back a second time as huge tax breaks for those activities. Of course, they get it back a third time in future profits from new mines and inventions which those activities discover--which is why oil companies do those activities in the first place.

A lot of stuff is not subtracted from the profit calculation. Those are profit invested, which become balance sheet items. The land they buy and own and drill on is assets, so is any new equipment they buy, office buildings they build, etc.

Of the things PapaG listed, Exploration is likely a capitalized (balance sheet) expense, as are new permits. Maintenance, distribution, R&D would show up on the P&L and thus affect profit.

 

[magnifier661]

You don't know what "profit" means, do you. Not only has that stuff been subtracted in the profit calculation, the companies get it back a second time as huge tax breaks for those activities. Of course, they get it back a third time in future profits from new mines and inventions which those activities discover--which is why oil companies do those activities in the first place.

So is it wrong for you to get a tax break on IRAs or Pensions? How about the mortgage of your home? Both of those investments give you tax breaks and possible future profits. But hey we're the little guys and it's a drop in the bucket to even complain about right?

If we choose not to invest out profits (salary) for a house or investments, we can keep that profit. But if we invest in housing or IRAs we are considered good citizens. But if the oil companies do it, we label them scoundrels that just want more money. Lol

 

[magnifier661]

Like you don't already. Sheesh.

barfo

Shhhhhhhhhh!

 

[PapaG]

You don't know what "profit" means, do you. Not only has that stuff been subtracted in the profit calculation, the companies get it back a second time as huge tax breaks for those activities. Of course, they get it back a third time in future profits from new mines and inventions which those activities discover--which is why oil companies do those activities in the first place.

Wrong. The tax credits don't completely offset R and D, and they are tax credits, not free money. Plus, the government already makes more money off of this industry than it does any other industry known to the USA. I suppose you just want to nationalize it and get it over with? Of course, our idiotic President would then close off production and move us to his fantasy land of algae and unicorns.

What's it like to be 60+ and so ignorant? Really, I do wonder this. I mean, you're just so consistently, and hilariously, wrong. The states' rights vs. US constitution stuff was just a joke, right?