<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'> It wont be pure because they CHEATED! Cant you remember last week? If you cheat on the 1st test of the new school year and the administration lets you keep your A, did you earn it? TAINT....and big ass TAINT stamped right accross their foreheads</p> </div></p> Yes you earned it because you'll do good on the other 100 tests out there that you'll have. This doesn't even make sense Beef, they "cheated" one game, got fined by the league, will be watched like hell and I'm 100% won't be able to do that cheating again. What bothers me is that you and the rest think that only the Pats have done this while every other team comes up as a saint now. So our season is tainted because of the first game and other teams seasons won't even though they'll probably cheat somehow in their games. (every team cheats, I'm sure you know that)</p> </p> And someone change the slogan on the top. </p> </p> </div> </p> </p> If someone could earn 100s on all the rest of the tests, they could have on first one and wouldnt have cheated. Thus, any future production will be in question, since obviously he didnt think the team was good enough without cheating to win, what is he doing now to win, since one of the ways he was cheating before has been found. Obviously anything belichek ever accomplishes for the rest of his life (not just in football) should be called into question and doubted based on his history of cheating.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'> It wont be pure because they CHEATED! Cant you remember last week? If you cheat on the 1st test of the new school year and the administration lets you keep your A, did you earn it? TAINT....and big ass TAINT stamped right accross their foreheads</p> </div></p> Yes you earned it because you'll do good on the other 100 tests out there that you'll have. This doesn't even make sense Beef, they "cheated" one game, got fined by the league, will be watched like hell and I'm 100% won't be able to do that cheating again. What bothers me is that you and the rest think that only the Pats have done this while every other team comes up as a saint now. So our season is tainted because of the first game and other teams seasons won't even though they'll probably cheat somehow in their games. (every team cheats, I'm sure you know that)</p> </div></p> Beef, I think you are missing something here. If you cheat and get caught on your first test, two things are guaranteed to happen to you. 1) You automatically flunk that test. 2) You are expelled from whatever university that you are attending.</p> What did the league do? The let them keep their victory of New York, and they didn't suspend Belicheat.</p> </p> The Patriots got off really easy despite the evidence against them. I think the Commisioner is unfairly trying to sweep the whole thing under the rug and pretend like it never happened. It would be bad for marketing and a poor example for youngsters to admit as much.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>You think this changes that they cheated? they can win every game for the rest of the year by 50 points and it wont remove the taint....once your integrity of the football team was compromised, the season was lost....nothing they accomplish this year will be pure....</div></p> Since Mike Shanahan and the Broncos have a reputation for the secret videotaping of other teams' practices, does this mean that their Super Bowl wins are tainted? (The Chargers went so far as to spend a fortune to make sure their practise facility couldn't be filmed from a nearby hill because Broncos employees were caught there with video equipment.)</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehmunro)</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>You think this changes that they cheated? they can win every game for the rest of the year by 50 points and it wont remove the taint....once your integrity of the football team was compromised, the season was lost....nothing they accomplish this year will be pure....</div></p> Since Mike Shanahan and the Broncos have a reputation for the secret videotaping of other teams' practices, does this mean that their Super Bowl wins are tainted? (The Chargers went so far as to spend a fortune to make sure their practise facility couldn't be filmed from a nearby hill because Broncos employees were caught there with video equipment.) </p> </div></p> Exactly. Thats what I've been trying to tell them. That every team cheats.I'm sure they know it, it's just that they hate the Patriots and never want to see them doing good. </p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehmunro)</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>You think this changes that they cheated? they can win every game for the rest of the year by 50 points and it wont remove the taint....once your integrity of the football team was compromised, the season was lost....nothing they accomplish this year will be pure....</div></p> Since Mike Shanahan and the Broncos have a reputation for the secret videotaping of other teams' practices, does this mean that their Super Bowl wins are tainted? (The Chargers went so far as to spend a fortune to make sure their practise facility couldn't be filmed from a nearby hill because Broncos employees were caught there with video equipment.) </p> </div></p> Exactly. Thats what I've been trying to tell them. That every team cheats.I'm sure they know it, it's just that they hate the Patriots and never want to see them doing good. </p> </p> </div></p> Keep coming up with new deflection tatics. The truth is that I hate the Bills more than the Patriots and you don't hear me calling them cheaters. I usually reserve the cheating label for teams and people that have been proven to be cheaters like Bill Belicheat last week.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>Keep coming up with new deflection tatics. The truth is that I hate the Bills more than the Patriots and you don't hear me calling them cheaters. I usually reserve the cheating label for teams and people that have been proven to be cheaters like Bill Belicheat last week.</div> We're still waiting for your moral indignation over Don Shula's use of the competition committee to cheat.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehmunro)</div><div class='quotemain'> We're still waiting for your moral indignation over Don Shula's use of the competition committee to cheat. </p> </div></p> </p> #1, please clarify that statement....#2, Ive never heard that about the Broncos, but if its true, it taints all that Shanahan has accomplished....</p> </p>
I have, either in this thread or the other. Don Shula had a long and storied history of using the Rules Committee to change the rules retroactively to either punish direct competitors or spitefully people that beat the Dolphins (such his attempt to strip the Packers of a third round choice after they beat him on blocked FG play that he didn't like because he didn't have a former NBA prospect on his roster). As people have claimed that "not playing fair" is tantamount to cheating, Shula's abuse of his position on the competition committee comprised cheating by this standard (and NFL coaches <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic;">did</span> complain about it, and got fined for doing so).
How is changing rules in the competition committee or bringing other teams questionable tactics to light considered cheating? Thats quite possibly the dumbest point Ive ever heard....thats exactly how you are supposed to get changes made....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>How is changing rules in the competition committee or bringing other teams questionable tactics to light considered cheating? Thats quite possibly the dumbest point Ive ever heard....thats exactly how you are supposed to get changes made....</div> So, you're attempting to tell us that blocking a field goal by being a really good athlete is "cheating"? ummm...Isn't a <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic">sport</span> supposed to be about having the best athletes playing as well as they can? And attempting to penalise the competition for <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic">not</span>breaking the existing rules? That<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic">is</span>fair play? And then <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic">never</span>doing the same thing to his trick plays? (Like lining up 10 men on offense and having someone jump onto the field at the last moment, a practise that was outlawed the moment they wheeled his corpse out of the competition committee room.) I <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic">wasn't</span>the one that claimed "not playing fair" was cheating, that was a Dolphins' fan. I merely pointed out to him that he's never, and will never express moral indignation over the fact that Shula never "played fair". (Keep in mind that back in those days the head of the Competition Committee was also in charge of the officials, meaning that the referees were beholden to an active coach for the plum postseason assignments. Coincidentally the Dolphins were the least penalised team in the NFL during Shula's tenure over the committee. Go figure.)</p>
Your accusations are ridiculous and baseless....using the comp committee to change rules is WITHIN THE RULES! In fact, thats what the competition committe is there for....Video taping signals is AGAINST THE RULES! No one was ever penalized for something they did because a rule was changed retroactively as you state....btw, all rules are changed retroactively, becaue no rule could be changed before it was a rule, which destroys another of your accusations....you can question the argument of the DWO, in fact, I welcome you to do it....but dont question our integrity....the 3 members of this orginazation have been on the forums for many years....in that time, we've never been involved in a personal attacks scandal, we've never been overly critical of another football team, including the Patriots during their dynasty until its PROVEN they were cheating, and we always bring something factual to back up anything we are adament about....we always show up, win or lose, to take our beatings and we never taunt you when we win(GM Jigga could learn from this one)....if I have to be backed into a corner, I want BA and Dale next to me, at least I can be sure they won't break the rules as we fight our way out and they will act with class when we get out....so, continue to use the "Liberal Attack" defense, ie: attacking the advesary because you cant successful argue the point in question, and we will continue to drive along the high road and being able to look into mirrors without wincing....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>Your accusations are ridiculous and baseless....using the comp committee to change rules is WITHIN THE RULES!</div></p> Changing the rules<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic">retroactively</span>and attempting to penalise people for breaking rules that didn't exist (like jumping really really high to block a field goal) is not "playing fair". No matter how loudly you scream nor how much capslocked text that you use. The standard proposed by the Dolphins fan was that "not playing fair" constituted cheating. Not my claim. His. Except that by<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic">his</span>claim Don Shula was a cheater. Notice, you never see me climb high on my moral hobby horse to express phony outrage over cheating no matter who we're talking about, even the despicable Roger Clemens. I just find it hilariously ironic that a Dolphins fan is whining and moaning about other people "not playing fair" when the Dolphins only real competitive era came during the years that Shula ran the Competition Committee. Once the Dolphins lost that competitive advantage they've never got beyond being a second tier team (and more often worse). Once Don Shula was no longer the de facto head of officiating the Dolphins suddenly started committing penalties at the same rate as everyone else. </p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>No one was ever penalized for something they did because a rule was changed retroactively as you state....btw, all rules are changed retroactively, becaue no rule could be changed before it was a rule, which destroys another of your accusations.</div></p> This is wrong and flat out stupid. On a purely logical basis your statement makes zero sense. Every time a sport changes the rules, the sport undergoes a rule change. I have no idea what you're trying to say with that last part. As for the first part, Ron Meyer and the New England Patriots were absolutely penalised for violating a rule that didn't exist when the snowplow cleared the spot for the kicker. The Green Bay Packers were absolutely penalised for Gary Lewis using his 38" vertical leap to block a FGA from behind the line of scrimmage, <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic">even though it was perfectly legal when he did it</span>.There was no rule against it when it happened, the next morning Don Shula passed a rule that went into effect the week before the play happened. This was <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic">not</span>standard practise in any sport. Not even in football <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic">except</span>when someone beat the Dolphins in a key game. In those cases Shula absolutely abused his position on theCompetitionCommittee. His contemporaries even said as much (see Bud Grant's fine for making a joke about Shula's habits). There is, and can never be any way around this. Don Shula didn't play fair. More power to him. Every coach in every sport cuts every corner they can. If they don't they end up unemployed.</p> </p>
If Shula did all this, how come you are the only human that knows about it? Are you confusing your early Madden experiences with real life? What penalty did the Patriots pay for the snow plow? What penalty did the Packers pay for whatever the hell you are talking about? Lets see some evidence, not just meanderings from the fantasy wonderland
BTW, Shula joined the Comp Committee in 1975, 3 seasons after the Perfect Season and 2 after the 2nd Dolphins Super Bowl....these are called facts....Dictionary.com defines a fact as: "Something known to exist or have happend" ....I will include the link to dictionary.com so you can read more about facts. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>If Shula did all this, how come you are the only human that knows about it? Are you confusing your early Madden experiences with real life? What penalty did the Patriots pay for the snow plow? What penalty did the Packers pay for whatever the hell you are talking about? Lets see some evidence, not just meanderings from the fantasy wonderland</div> My early Madden experience? My early Madden experience was watching him on the sidelines with the Raiders, and I have no idea what this has to do with the Dolphins. You've completely lost me there.</p> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; color: #000000; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="text-align: -webkit-left"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: #3a3d42; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px"><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'></span>BTW, Shula joined the Comp Committee in 1975, 3 seasons after the Perfect Season and 2 after the 2nd Dolphins Super Bowl</span></div></span></p> What does that have to do with Shula's "not playing fair"?</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehmunro)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>If Shula did all this, how come you are the only human that knows about it? Are you confusing your early Madden experiences with real life? What penalty did the Patriots pay for the snow plow? What penalty did the Packers pay for whatever the hell you are talking about? Lets see some evidence, not just meanderings from the fantasy wonderland</div> My early Madden experience? My early Madden experience was watching him on the sidelines with the Raiders, and I have no idea what this has to do with the Dolphins. You've completely lost me there.</p> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #000000; border-collapse: collapse; webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px"><span class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #3a3d42; border-collapse: separate; webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px"><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'></span>BTW, Shula joined the Comp Committee in 1975, 3 seasons after the Perfect Season and 2 after the 2nd Dolphins Super Bowl</span></div></span></p> What does that have to do with Shula's "not playing fair"?</p></div> Proves that he didnt cheat to win any super bowls by that method. Unless . . . he borrowed TARDIS from dr. who. The patriots however, cannot say the same. Tainted titleville = foxborough</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>Proves that he didnt cheat to win any super bowls by that method. Unless . . . he borrowed TARDIS from dr. who. The patriots however, cannot say the same. Tainted titleville = foxborough</div> I'm sorry, what evidence do you have that the Patriots cheated during any of their Super Bowl victories? And what does the first part have to with the fact that Shula never "played fair"? Hell, neither did Al Davis, he paid his players bonuses to injure opponents, and the sliding scale went up for the severity of the injuries. Was that "playing fair"? In Madden's days the Raiders strategy was to foul every single play to force the referees to swallow their whistles. Was that "playing fair"? (But it worked, the Raiders got away with a lot of shit in those days.)</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehmunro)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>Proves that he didnt cheat to win any super bowls by that method. Unless . . . he borrowed TARDIS from dr. who. The patriots however, cannot say the same. Tainted titleville = foxborough</div> I'm sorry, what evidence do you have that the Patriots cheated during any of their Super Bowl victories? And what does the first part have to with the fact that Shula never "played fair"? Hell, neither did Al Davis, he paid his players bonuses to injure opponents, and the sliding scale went up for the severity of the injuries. Was that "playing fair"? In Madden's days the Raiders strategy was to foul every single play to force the referees to swallow their whistles. Was that "playing fair"? (But it worked, the Raiders got away with a lot of shit in those days.)</p></div> Attacking davis and shula still to defend patriots? I LOVE BEING RIGHT</p>
Well, let's see, we have two competing claims here. Yours "Every single win that the Patriots have is the result of cheating!!! And only Bill Belichick has ever, or will ever cheat!!!!" Evidence presented for said claim? None. </p> Mine, "Cheating is as old as professional sports in America." Evidence for said claim? Well, there's the fact that Hartford Dark Blues began the art of sign stealing in 1876, the year the National League began. So, of the two claims yours is absurd on its face, and the other has evidentiary support. </p>
