The Warriors beat Houston 110-99 two nights ago, Yao Ming scored 9 points on only 4 shots and Al Harrington started center and forced at least 10 steals of passes to Yao. I'll elaborate on this more, but are good running teams good defensive teams? The more you think about it, I'm convinced they have to be. You can't break without getting steals a lot or grabbing rebounds. It'd be near impossible to score 100 + points almost every night trying to run off inbound passes. Your guys' thoughts?
Well they could be, but I wouldn't say the ones right now are. The Warriors and Nuggets are easy to score on and so are the Suns at some points. I can't speak for every team, but I know that the Suns are better than most people get them credit for. They force a lot of turnovers and you're right, that leads to those team's fast pace. A lot of people also look at the opponents PPG, but you really can't do that when the team scores so much. None of the running teams currently are a top 10 defensive team, but I think the Suns at least do a pretty nice job and have some players that could really give your offense problems.
I think it really depends on a team-by-team basis. Denver and Golden State are teams that like to push the tempo, but both aren't really good defensive teams because they still have breakdowns defensively. They have their stretches during games, and thats where they are dangerous: they'll string a few stops together and make their opponents pay on the other end of the floor. Same with Phoenix, although I think at this point Phoenix is above the other two defensively.Now, with that being said, I don't like it when people assume that all offensive-oriented teams are incapable of playing defense. Sure, the give up a lot of points, but the number of possessions in each of their games are up when you compare them to teams that like to play a "grind-it-out" defensive game. Therefore obviously there will be more points scored by both teams.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Warriors beat Houston 110-99 two nights ago, Yao Ming scored 9 points on only 4 shots and Al Harrington started center and forced at least 10 steals of passes to Yao. I'll elaborate on this more, but are good running teams good defensive teams? The more you think about it, I'm convinced they have to be. You can't break without getting steals a lot or grabbing rebounds. It'd be near impossible to score 100 + points almost every night trying to run off inbound passes. Your guys' thoughts?</div>Are you trying to hint that the Warriors are a good defensive team? I sure hope not...
Most of them are far from good defensive squads. Look at the Wizards and Warriors, both run the floor to try to outscore the other team becuase they can't slow down the opposing squad in a normal half court game. The whole point of running is to outscore the oppononent and it ends up in few stops on the defensive end. The Wizards get turnovers becuase they usually go for steals rather than playing lock down perimeter/post defense on opponents. Rebouding is very important to a fast offense. Most fast break teams can cuase turnovers and get boards but have very weak team defense however the Suns do get stops on the defensive end. They are not neccesaraly the best defensive squad in the NBA which is why the run but the Suns can get stops if they need to.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BALLAHOLLIC? @ Apr 6 2007, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Are you trying to hint that the Warriors are a good defensive team? I sure hope not...</div>The more I think about it, I see the Warriors as a good individual lockdown team. We have Al or Jax front the big man, Jax or Baron try to get over the top passes. If it's a swingman, we just stick Jax on him and force the steals. BALLAHOLLIC, do you think the Warriors are a bad defensive team when we average the most steals and blocks per game in the league?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (playaofthegame @ Apr 6 2007, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If they're a good lock down team why aren't they gonna make the playoffs....?</div>At this point, I'd say the Murphleavy era and the games without Baron and J-Rich.
Good fastbreak teams are usually teams that have fast guards who like to play the passing lanes. This is fine against sloppy teams who are slow and turn the ball over a lot, but against a team like the Spurs, the gambling on defense will backfire big time. Most fast break teams play fast and up tempo to hopefully con the other team into doing so. This way, they can mask their bad halfcourt defense and play to their strengths offensively.
Seriously man..every post you make is something about the warriors being biasedI am a bit of a homer at times but EVERY single post you mention the WarriorsThey have some solid players but they are not as good as you are hyping them up to be
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 6 2007, 05:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Good fastbreak teams are usually teams that have fast guards who like to play the passing lanes. This is fine against sloppy teams who are slow and turn the ball over a lot, but against a team like the Spurs, the gambling on defense will backfire big time. Most fast break teams play fast and up tempo to hopefully con the other team into doing so. This way, they can mask their bad halfcourt defense and play to their strengths offensively.</div>How about teams like the Rockets who are disciplined on offense. I think you are right, we have bad defense in the halfcourt, and I think that attributes to J-Rich and Al letting their men go by them and forcing Biedrins to give up the bucket to not foul.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (playaofthegame @ Apr 6 2007, 05:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Seriously man..every post you make is something about the warriors being biasedI am a bit of a homer at times but EVERY single post you mention the WarriorsThey have some solid players but they are not as good as you are hyping them up to be</div>I originally meant for this topic to be about all teams that run most of the time. I'm not a homer, I just think that the Warriors are more interesting than almost every team in the league. :winkglasses:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>BALLAHOLLIC, do you think the Warriors are a bad defensive team when we average the most steals and blocks per game in the league</div>Getting Steals and blocks doesn't make the Warriors a good defensive team, steals and blocks usually don't tell the whole story defensively. The Warriors give up more points per game than any other team in the entire league, on paper they are the worst defensive team in the NBA. You can't make any excuses for giving away 107 points each night.They give up more points than they score, that's horrible.
I think that points allowed shows a lot about the pace of the game, not so much how many points a team gives up. I think that FG allowed is probably a better overall stat for a team like the Warriors, but even that will baloon on us depending on how another team shoots the ball.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CABANGBANG @ Apr 6 2007, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How about teams like the Rockets who are disciplined on offense. I think you are right, we have bad defense in the halfcourt, and I think that attributes to J-Rich and Al letting their men go by them and forcing Biedrins to give up the bucket to not foul.</div>Rockets didn't have T-Mac that night, and are not disciplined. Rafer Alston, Luther Head, and John Lucas are all very erratic and careless. You barely held the Rockets, without Tracy McGrady, to under 100pts...not much of an accomplishment.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CABANGBANG @ Apr 6 2007, 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think that points allowed shows a lot about the pace of the game, not so much how many points a team gives up. I think that FG allowed is probably a better overall stat for a team like the Warriors, but even that will baloon on us depending on how another team shoots the ball.</div>It doesn't if you give up more points than you score. If you guys had a decent point differential I may be with you but, wow.
Golden State is a sh*tty defensive team, so if thats what your trying to say, then you are wrong.Teams that run up and down are able to do so because they dont play as hard of defense, and that is what style of play works better for them. The Suns could be a better defensive team, but they run so much and it works so well for them that they dont need to play that great of defense. The more I look at it, all of the really "up-tempo" teams who score a whole lot, and run a whole lot, arent very good defensive teams at all. Denver, Golden State, and Phoenix are all pretty bad defensive teams IMO.
Obviously they can be good defensive teams, that's out of the question. I think that its harder to play good defense when you're running up and down the court all game, but you can't just say a team is bad defensively based solely on the fact that they have an uptempo offense.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yankshater213 @ Apr 7 2007, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Obviously they can be good defensive teams, that's out of the question. I think that its harder to play good defense when you're running up and down the court all game, but you can't just say a team is bad defensively based solely on the fact that they have an uptempo offense.</div>The thing is that most teams use the up-tempo run the floor type offense becuase their offense is much better than their defense. However, there is a prefect example of a team that played defense as well as offense. Showtime, well renowned for their fast pace and dominant offense actually played great transition defense. So it is possible, but it is unlikely.
It is true that the Warriors do give up more points than they score. The Warriors score 105.6 points per a game, their oppenents score 107.3 points per a game. But still if you think about it how are the Warriors able to run the type of offense they do without some defense? They must have some defense if they run a fast offense. The Warriors average 9.0 steals per a game and 5.8 blocks per a game. Those are some pretty good stats on the defensive side.