How's everyone feel about Smokin' Joe Cronin now?

Word is there are some ill feelings between Ayton and Paul. That would be my only concern.

 

Good one. So Dame’s a big liar and Haynes is colluding to repair his image that he destroyed when he showed his true colors? After years and years and years of being one way, he just became this other guy?

Or it’s what happened. Sue fits EVERYTHING we know about Damian Lillard.

There’s this strange thing people do when things get like this where they make things polar. I don’t think this is a polar thing. It seems packed with nuances. Joe can have gotten good assets and fucked Miami and everything cool and still be a snake. It doesn’t have to be so black and white.

 

It's even more fundamental than that, IMO. Pro-Dame media, podcasters and YouTubers assassinated Cronin's character for two months before Haynes said Dame told the team he was willing to come back to Portland. They never gave specifics, they just said Cronin was doing Dame dirty, which, without any examples, is sketchy as heck.

Dame's approach didn't even have to give the Blazers maximum leverage, but it instead was very clearly an attempt to take away as much leverage from the team as it could, to the point that even the league stepped in.

And, here we are again, Dame's personal reporters after the fact putting out this new narrative three months later that's just another spin on what we've been reading for last three months. It just looks like another attempt to repair Dame's damaged rep, but I don't know how it does that by saying the people Dame employed did all the damage when Dame sat back and did nothing.

The timeline doesn't absolve Dame. Haynes used up all his credibility through the last three months and there's absolutely no reason I should believe him now. TBH, to throw this grenade on the way out the door to me is actually a confirmation that the Dame we saw over the last three months is the real one.

 

To be fair to Dame, I bet he really hates the Blazers' FO, yet still really loves the fans. That duality must be tough.

 

I think you need to consider the source.

I also think you should consider that Dame's reputation took a MASSIVE hit this summer. Not just locally, but nationally. He was known as the "loyalty guy" and then he demanded a trade to one team. That was a really bad look for him. So I'm sorry, but I'm not just going to accept a hit piece by one of his friends as gospel. I think both sides have been maneuvering to not be the bad guy, and I think this is Dame throwing one more haymaker before he leaves.

 

100% agree

 

Hmm if I had to guess this scenario seems more believable than what what Haynes wrote. I just don't believe that after all that happened Dame really wanted to come back to Portland long-term. Don't get me wrong I still am a huge Dame fan, but I think this very calculated article by Haynes/Dame was a poor decision. The goal was obviously to make Joe, and only Joe, look bad. Was it really that important for Dame to do so?

 

Here is my read on the situation (with a lot of speculation)

Dame thinks that the Blazers weren't actually trying to put a contender around him. I don't think that's true... at least not at first. Last summer Joe went out and got Jerami Grant and GP2. Those are not rebuilding moves. Those are moves to make Dame happy. Those were better moves than anything Neil did in the last four years. I wasn't a fan of GP2, but he clearly was a "win now" move. Unfortunately it didn't work and the team still sucked. It made sense to tank and try to acquire another asset. The odds were that we most likely would not have a great pick in this draft, but fortune shined on us and got us the 3rd pick.

Lots of credible sources have said that Joe did attempt to move the pick and build around Dame. Other people claim that Joe didn't really try and most of the offers he made were disingenuous. This is one of those points that will be nearly impossible to prove either way. Dame most likely hurt the value of the pick by saying, for all intents and purposes, that he'd demand a trade if they used the pick. This is the first example of Dame making Joe's job harder. If Joe was actually trying to move the pick, this had to hurt his leverage in negotiations.

I think the path diverges here. If I'm the Blazers, I'm looking at this young superstar replacement for my aging HOF point guard and I'm thinking it's time to move on. Joe isn't an idiot. He knows that he can't build a contender around Dame in a few years time. When he couldn't flip the pick, that was the death sentence for Dame in Portland and I think both sides knew it. This is the point where they should have come together amicably and just worked out a solution where everyone leaves happy. Unfortunately that's not what happened.

What we do know, through reports, is that Dame requested a trade to only one city, and his agent did everything in his power to make it more difficult for the Blazers to trade Dame. The Heat gave a lowball offer. The Blazers didn't want to deal with Miami. Possibly because they didn't think the Heat had anything they wanted. Possibly because they didn't like being bullied into only one destination. Possibly because they felt like Miami had tampered. Either way, the Blazers weren't motivated to get something done with the Heat.

There was a report that the Blazers filed a grievance against Dame and his agent. Haynes reported that the NBA had a meeting with both sides and lawyers were involved. To me, this indicates that there is A LOT more to this story. If Joe was THAT pissed at Dame, there is clearly more to this that we have not heard. Maybe we won't ever hear about it. The Blazers haven't been airing their dirty laundry like Dame has. I just wish people would recognize that there has been transgressions from both sides, everyone is pissed, and I don't think there's an innocent person in this ordeal.

I just want to move on and be excited about the new team.

 

Then why are you making it black and white? Go back and read your last 10 or so posts in this thread. You read this piece, that only offers one side of the story and immediately sided with Dame and began trashing Cronin.

Who is the one making this black and white?

 

At this point, I think we can quit bashing Dame.

he fucked up. Played his hand and got called out on it.

his legacy and what he stood for is now tarnished. The truth is always somewhere in the middle.

joe out the league on Notice. We aren’t going to get Fucked or held hostage. Honor your contract or we trade you where we want.

I love Dame, will pull for Bucks this year. Hope he retires a Blazer


But I also love Smokin Joe Cronin!


RIP CITY

 

How specious of you. There is overwhelming evidence that Joe Cronin is a petty fuck. I'm not sure that needs gradations. We all listened to him say one thing and do another for the entirety of his tenure with the Blazers. That is what it is.

Besides, you know that's not what I was referring to. I guess it was just an attempt at an awesome gotcha moment. Pretty cool stuff.

 

I think the issue here, fundamentally, is that players do not always make the best GMs.

Dame Lillard, as great a player as he is (and we all know that), is a pretty sub-par GM or GM assistant. He believed that keeping CJ as his running mate for many years is the way to go, he pushed for veteran acquisitions that brought us the joy of RoCo, he wanted GP2 and Grant - and despite the fact that these did not work, when the Blazers had rebuilt their assets after the NeO disaster - he believed that the FO's analysis of the best way forward to build a contender is wrong.

We have a long time of hearing what Dame thought would work for Portland and the influence he had on NeO first, and Cronin at the start of Cronin's tenure (Grant, GP2). We have seen that these moves were not great. It's a fact, it's in the past. there is no denying it. So, to me at least, this all comes to a (great) player that does not get that he is not a good GM. Simple as that.

We will all have the memories of Dame, both good and bad. Time to move on. This is the Scoot and Shae show now.

 

Oh I didn’t see ‘24-‘25 was non guaranteed.

 

All from Dame's camp.

Give me one spec of evidence that doesn't come from one of Dame's shills. Haynes, Shams, etc.

 

You are just proving my point here.

 

Can't get much more black and white than that..........