<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Laker_fan:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry but the hype created around him, "the next Michael Jordan." He has a high PPG because he takes the most shots out the team. An example of this is last week where he scored 40 points against some team. He took 40% of the Cavs shots and scored 40% of the points for the team. Seriously, if you believe that James is going to be the next Michael Jordan you got to be crazy. Stats don't mean much. He may be extremly good offensively, but his defence is mediocre. Defence wins championships. Detroit and LA are an example of this, although LA were as good offensively.</div> So I guess being ranked 2nd in the league in steals is mediocre defense, eh? See how you compared Detroit and LA to LeBron's defense? Well I mean LeBron is only a player, Detroit and LA are teams, so you cannot compare them. LeBron recieves no defensive help whatsoever. LeBron is a good defensive PLAYER, the Cavs are not a good defensive TEAM. See the difference?
I love Iverson. I think his heart and desire makes him the most valuable player to any team. You cannot put a price on that. He is the most valuable player to his team and he is statistically putting up great numbers, but i do not think he can win the award without the sixers doing well. They would have to win all their remaining games, make the playoffs and make some noise to sway voting his way. By all means Allen Iverson is the MVP, but i doubt voters can look past the teams record and of course, past Shaq, Wade or Nash.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CUSA Fan:</div><div class="quote_post">So I guess being ranked 2nd in the league in steals is mediocre defense, eh? See how you compared Detroit and LA to LeBron's defense? Well I mean LeBron is only a player, Detroit and LA are teams, so you cannot compare them. LeBron recieves no defensive help whatsoever. LeBron is a good defensive PLAYER, the Cavs are not a good defensive TEAM. See the difference?</div> Ahhh! You lost that part of the argument as soon as you said that, steals do not equal good defense, Lebron's defensive effort is fairly lackadisical, he's definately not a good defender. Mediocre would be the right word for his defense, he's great at picking passing lanes with his long arms, and athleticism, but apart from that, he needs a lot of defensive work. Examples from recent games would be how many open shots he gave Peja, I don't know what he was thinking there, and the game agaisnt Tmac. Tmac is very good, but Lebron made it even easier for him to score in that game. His man to man defense needs a lot of work, right now he'd be like All-NBA Defensive 15th team .
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">His man to man defense needs a lot of work, right now he'd be like All-NBA Defensive 15th team .</div> Than I wonder where Marbury ranks...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Ahhh! You lost that part of the argument as soon as you said that, steals do not equal good defense, Lebron's defensive effort is fairly lackadisical, he's definately not a good defender. Mediocre would be the right word for his defense, he's great at picking passing lanes with his long arms, and athleticism, but apart from that, he needs a lot of defensive work. Examples from recent games would be how many open shots he gave Peja, I don't know what he was thinking there, and the game agaisnt Tmac. Tmac is very good, but Lebron made it even easier for him to score in that game. His man to man defense needs a lot of work, right now he'd be like All-NBA Defensive 15th team .</div> I agree with that, defense is not about how many steals you make, its about restricting the man you are on from scoring, assisting and basically having influence on the offense of the opposing team. I would rather a player who gets 0 steals per game but restricts the player he is marking from having an influence on the game than a player who gets 2 steals(like Lebron) and lets the player he is on get 30 points and 6 assists in the game. The only possible thing that keeps LeBron at a medicore defence is his rebounding numbers. If he was a poor rebounder, he would be below average in defence.
If you go by the numbers Allen Iverson isn't even close, its Kevin Garnett. No offense but you guys need to rethink what defines a great player if you think AI is great. A great player is the one that makes his team better and not one who needs to dominate the ball on every possesion his team gets and throw up horrible shots. "I think a lot of times people get excited about trades where a guy that's traded averages 20 or 22 points a game on a team that hasn't had any success. Most of the times those are real failures for you. ... Numbers lie a lot. Wins and losses don't lie." - Jerry West
How can you say AI doesn't make the players around him better? I guarantee that if you put Kevin Garnett into the same group of Sixers that Iverson plays with they would be the exact same players they are now and not any better then what they are now. I mean seriously you can't fake eight assists per game, if your dropping dimes like that you're getting someone buckets and that can make a player better. Also as of recently AI doesn't dominate the ball every possession, Chris Webber is running the offense some as so is Allen. Iverson has dominated the ball in the past but that?s not because he wanted to it's because he had to. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So I guess being ranked 2nd in the league in steals is mediocre defense, eh?</div> First off Allen Iverson is ranked 2nd in the leauge in steals so I guess that's not mediocre defense then.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Silky Smooth:</div><div class="quote_post">How can you say AI doesn't make the players around him better? I guarantee that if you put Kevin Garnett into the same group of Sixers that Iverson plays with they would be the exact same players they are now and not any better then what they are now. I mean seriously you can't fake eight assists per game, if your dropping dimes like that you're getting someone buckets and that can make a player better. Also as of recently AI doesn't dominate the ball every possession, Chris Webber is running the offense some as so is Allen. Iverson has dominated the ball in the past but that?s not because he wanted to it's because he had to. First off Allen Iverson is ranked 2nd in the leauge in steals so I guess that's not mediocre defense then.</div> Not saying Iverson is selfish or not, I'm just saying anyone assists desn't really mean anything. Marbury averages something like over 8 assists per game throughout his career, and many people consider him selfish. Kidd averages less assists per game than Marbury and obviously we know who is the better floor general. You can't just tell something by looking at the stat sheet. Same thing with the steals, look at og15's post about it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Not saying Iverson is selfish or not, I'm just saying anyone assists desn't really mean anything. Marbury averages something like over 8 assists per game throughout his career, and many people consider him selfish. Kidd averages less assists per game than Marbury and obviously we know who is the better floor general. You can't just tell something by looking at the stat sheet</div> The only reason Kidd isn't seen as selfish is because he is a pass first PG. Marbury and AI are not really selfish they are just shoot first players. But the eight assists are a stat that actually proves these players are setting up others as well and making them better. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Same thing with the steals, look at og15's post about it.</div> That's the point im trying to make to CUSA Fan, just because Allen Iverson is second in steals doesn't mean he is a good defender like he claims of LeBron James.
IF the MVP was about numbers, LeBron would probably win. But it's not, so he isn't. And for the laker fan who's hatred of LeBron is so clearly on display, give it a rest. You're still faulting LeBron for taking over the New Orleans game and scoring 44 points because he took a lot of shots. THATS WHAT YOURE SUPPOSED TO DO!!!!! LeBron would probably apologize for taking too many shots to lead his team back from a 14 point 4th quarter deficit to win the game, but he cares about more than stats. If you want stats without wins, watch your boy kobe. But don't compare him to LeBron.
naw <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I agree with that, defense is not about how many steals you make, its about restricting the man you are on from scoring, assisting and basically having influence on the offense of the opposing team. I would rather a player who gets 0 steals per game but restricts the player he is marking from having an influence on the game than a player who gets 2 steals(like Lebron) and lets the player he is on get 30 points and 6 assists in the game. The only possible thing that keeps LeBron at a medicore defence is his rebounding numbers. If he was a poor rebounder, he would be below average in defence.</div> no doubt that steals arent an idicater but he is by no means a average defender. He is critisized because his defense is no where near his offense but it is still easily above average. Remember defense includes defensive rebounds which he grabs 5.5 a game which is very good for a SF / SG. But none of the guys he is compared to where great defenders early. MJ, Kobe, Magic, TMac were all critisized early in their careers for lack of effort on defense. LeBron never lets the guy he is guarding have exceptional games. For example Kobe is averagin 14 ppg this year against Cleveland. He is by no mean all-NBA-defensive team but he is no slouch either
^ Kobe has been injured agaisnt the Cavaliers this year, his average of 14 PPG means nothing lol. Also Ira Newble is the one that guards Kobe when they play the Lakers.
Kobe got injured against the Cavs and was out up until a week or two before the All Star break. I don't think that MJ and Kobe were critisised for their lack of defence. Infact in the first few years of Kobe's career, he was a bench player and sixth man. He couldn't have been bad in defence if he was sixth man of the year. Infact, as far as I'm aware, he was the youngest player to be in the All defensive team for the 1999-2000 season.
No he's right, Kobe's defense wasn't that good early on, it was okay. MJ was a good defender, but he wasn't recognized as much for his defense, and wasn't a great defender early on. Tmac was actually a good defender when he came in, he became a worse defender when he went to Orlando, not a better one. Magic was never known for his defense, considering he was 6'9, and guarding PG's, their wasn't too much he could do in terms of stopping them. Magic also wasn't the greatest athlete, he was no 40 inch jumper of super speed and quickness guy, so he was never a great defender.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Silky Smooth:</div><div class="quote_post">The only reason Kidd isn't seen as selfish is because he is a pass first PG. Marbury and AI are not really selfish they are just shoot first players. But the eight assists are a stat that actually proves these players are setting up others as well and making them better.</div> Assists don't say anything much. In New Jersey, Marbury was seen as the most selfish point guard in the league and even one of his teammates said so. It could have been more, I just remember one. In New Jersey, he averaged 7.6, and 8.1 assists per game. Marbury wasn't making anyone better, he was just making himself better even though he managed to be amongst the leaders in assists. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That's the point im trying to make to CUSA Fan, just because Allen Iverson is second in steals doesn't mean he is a good defender like he claims of LeBron James.</div> Oh, I see.
