James Harden's defense

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by illmatic99, Apr 18, 2014.

  1. BlazerCaravan

    BlazerCaravan Hug a Bigot... to Death

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    28,071
    Likes Received:
    10,384
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Harden's defense just kind of falls over... so to speak.
     
  2. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    33,125
    Likes Received:
    41,918
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No. Harden would get Dame in foul trouble with a quickness, and that would spell disaster for us.

    I think the play is Nic on Harden and Wes on Parsons. I think the Rockets would be smart to use those same match-ups on defense, as I don't think Nic can take advantage of Harden the way Wes can.
     
  3. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    28,270
    Likes Received:
    5,823
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Merchant Banker
    Location:
    Denver, CO & Lake Oswego, OR
    When you look at the advanced stats, Harden destroyed Nico.
     
  4. BigGameDamian

    BigGameDamian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2012
    Messages:
    30,850
    Likes Received:
    12,047
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Didn't you ever read this...It's a similar situation.

    Relationships between NBA players and referees were generally all over the board — love, hate, and everything in-between. Some players, even very good ones, were targeted by referees and the league because they were too talented for their own good. Raja Bell, formerly of the Phoenix Suns and now a member of the Charlotte Bobcats, was one of those players. A defensive specialist throughout his career, Bell had a reputation for being a "star stopper." His defensive skills were so razor sharp that he could shut down a superstar, or at least make him work for his points. Kobe Bryant was often frustrated by Bell's tenacity on defense. Let's face it, no one completely shuts down a player of Kobe's caliber, but Bell could frustrate Kobe, take him out of his game, and interrupt his rhythm.

    You would think that the NBA would love a guy who plays such great defense. Think again! Star stoppers hurt the promotion of marquee players. Fans don't pay high prices to see players like Raja Bell — they pay to see superstars like Kobe Bryant score 40 points. Basketball purists like to see good defense, but the NBA wants the big names to score big points.

    If a player of Kobe's stature collides with the likes of Raja Bell, the call will almost always go for Kobe and against Bell. As part of our ongoing training and game preparation, NBA referees regularly receive game-action video tape from the league office. Over the years, I have reviewed many recorded hours of video involving Raja Bell. The footage I analyzed usually illustrated fouls being called against Bell, rarely for him. The message was subtle but clear — call fouls against the star stopper because he's hurting the game.
    If Kobe Bryant had two fouls in the first or second quarter and went to the bench, one referee would tell the other two, "Kobe's got two fouls. Let's make sure that if we call a foul on him, it's an obvious foul, because otherwise he's gonna go back to the bench. If he is involved in a play where a foul is called, give the foul to another player."

    Similarly, when games got physically rough, we would huddle up and agree to tighten the game up. So we started calling fouls on guys who didn't really matter — "ticky-tack" or "touch" fouls where one player just touched another but didn't really impede his progress. Under regular circumstances these wouldn't be fouls, but after a skirmish we wanted to regain control. We would never call these types of fouls on superstars, just on the average players who didn't have star status. It was important to keep the stars on the floor.
     
  5. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    28,270
    Likes Received:
    5,823
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Merchant Banker
    Location:
    Denver, CO & Lake Oswego, OR
    And this is why the personal foul should be eliminated. Every foul should be a team foul. After seven or eight team fouls in a quarter, you get a three to make two. After ten fouls in a quarter you get an extra free throw (three or four FTs).

    In no other sport save for hockey are there personal fouls. And in hockey you can't foul out. You don't eject an offensive lineman for six holding penalties over the course of a game. It would stop the crap of trying to put great players on the bench and stop the superstar call. All players would be treated equally, because there would be no risk of them having to sit out.
     
    rasheedfan2005 likes this.
  6. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    10,729
    Likes Received:
    7,169
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's a pretty interesting idea. It'd be cool to give it a try for a season and see how the players and fans like it.
    An unintended consequence is that guys who can't shoot FTs wouldn't be able to play in close games. That happens to some extent now, but it'd be even worse with the proposed changes.
     
  7. BlazerCaravan

    BlazerCaravan Hug a Bigot... to Death

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    28,071
    Likes Received:
    10,384
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah what happens at 20 fouls for the quarter, because we're playing hack a Dwight?
     
  8. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    61,255
    Likes Received:
    21,282
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    actor
    Location:
    New York
    Harden and Howard get theirs and we let the other guys try to beat us too? How do we win doing that?? You're confusing strategies. Either we shut down Harden/Howard (meaning they don't get theirs) and let the other guys beat us OR we let Harden/Howard get theirs and shut down the other guys.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
  9. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    17,976
    Likes Received:
    11,825
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think it's meant as looking at it like, we know Harden's going to get 30. We know Dwight will get close to 30. So you count 60 there, and then put forth your best defensive effort to make sure the other guys, Jones, Beverely, Parsons, and Lin don't get 40 between them.
     
  10. rasheedfan2005

    rasheedfan2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    Messages:
    8,543
    Likes Received:
    4,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I never thought about that but I like your idea penalize the team for fouls so there is still a disadvantage to having foul prone guys but dont boot players. Repped if possible I think I got you recently though
     
  11. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    9,315
    Likes Received:
    3,004
    Trophy Points:
    113
    http://youtu.be/NIyiEc1741s

    This is a clip of Hardens defense in ONE game. Its not just some highlight real of his bad plays throughout the year which could make many defenders look bad. Its shockingly just one single game.

    Harden is beyond horrible. It's crazy how people are talking about him being a superstar player. Is he skilled offensively? Oh you betcha! But he is not a top player in this league in terms of overall effectiveness leading his team to wins. Thats not possible when he is so horrific on the other end of the court. Wes is going to eat him alive on one end of the court. Will it be enough to play him to a draw? Unlikely. But compare that matchup to Terrance Jones guarding Aldridge. Aldrige will score on Jones, but he isn't going to give most of it back on the other end. GO BLAZERS.
     
  12. Blazer4ever

    Blazer4ever Finding a Way BANNED

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,920
    Likes Received:
    726
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Agricolture
    Location:
    Israel
    Put Lillard on Harden, he can do it and everyone should be ready to double. The biggest advantage is Beverley and Parsons would have much harder time against Wes, Nico.
    It will surprise them and it could possibly frustrate them, it's worth a shot.
    Dame is not bad when given specific assignment 1-on-1, he should consider this a challenge. The only concern could be foul trouble but he would only be asked to stay with him on drives and get a hand in his face on 3s. Dame knows what it takes to interrupt a shooter, he's a shooter himself.
     
  13. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    30,229
    Likes Received:
    8,388
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired, while you work!
    I sure hope our coaches and players have seen this video.
     
  14. rasheedfan2005

    rasheedfan2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    Messages:
    8,543
    Likes Received:
    4,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That video is great. If wes posts up, cuts, and pump fakes he could average 30
     
  15. julius

    julius Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    43,244
    Likes Received:
    31,233
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    singer songwriter
    Location:
    Washington
    What does that have to do with anything?
     
  16. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    29,379
    Likes Received:
    27,202
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm not attacking you here, I'm just keeping it 100% honest. This is some of the silliest ish I've heard in this forum and here's why:

    What's going to happen when one of our best post players "busts up a chifferobe" on Harden and gets either a score or Harden in foul trouble?

    IMHO Stotts needs to exploit Harden in the post with Wesley Matthews. He needs to run 3-5 Wessy Post ups a quarter if you ask me...
     
  17. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    29,379
    Likes Received:
    27,202
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This as well as exploit his SORRY post Defense.
     
  18. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    29,379
    Likes Received:
    27,202
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I wholly disagree with this. Harden is a terrible defender all the way around.
     
  19. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    29,379
    Likes Received:
    27,202
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is just silly too. LA averages 25/15 vs Hou and would command a double team when Jones is on him. You've gotta dance with the one that brought you. But this doesn't mean you don't run 3-5 plays for Wes every quarter.
     
  20. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    29,379
    Likes Received:
    27,202
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sooooooo let's put our worst on the ball defender against their best perimeter player? I'm glad you're not coaching us..
     

Share This Page