Trade Powell to Portland!

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by TBpup, Mar 25, 2021.

  1. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2014
    Messages:
    7,534
    Likes Received:
    11,193
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Saying this for years
    Oh, sorry, I thought this was the Afflalo thread.
     
  2. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    40,154
    Likes Received:
    24,332
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    Remember, these are PER 48 Stats.
    Player 1: Powell
    Player 2: Anfernee. I was amazed to find that over the last ten games Simons looks like a solid player, and (in a stunning turnaround) has gone from being regularly our WORST +/- guy to by far and away our best. Go figure.
     
    UKRAINEFAN and Tince like this.
  3. Titan

    Titan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    3,283
    Likes Received:
    3,243
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Surprised to see that too with Anfernee, especially when I see he gets yanked a lot when he is making shots.
     
  4. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    40,154
    Likes Received:
    24,332
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    Updated after yesterday's game:

    Over the last ten games, per 48 minutes stats:
    POWELL
    Points: 22.5
    Rebs: 4.1
    Assts: 3.2
    fg% 44
    3% 29.5
    -16 in 359 mins

    SIMONS
    Points: 22.7
    Rebs: 5.4
    Assts: 3.6
    fg% 47.6
    3% 48.3
    +42 in 133 mins
     
  5. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    91,995
    Likes Received:
    54,443
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Is Powell supposed to be a small forward?
     
  6. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Messages:
    21,121
    Likes Received:
    17,534
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He's not a SF in traditional since. He's them third guard in a 3 guard line up.
     
  7. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    22,719
    Likes Received:
    35,162
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I just don't think doing any kind of per/X-minutes stats are fair to the player who averages 36 minutes as a starter, out of position. And in Powell's case, not only a starter but a starter assigned to guard some of the opponents best players. In 13 minutes a game, Simons is protected on defense, Powell is exposed. And, offensively Powell is going against 1st unit players. Simons never faces that kind of resistance nor is he a high priority in any opposing scouting report

    and all of that's even more a factor when you reduce the sample size to just 10 games

    I agree Simons has been playing better lately, but the sample sizes you've used coincide to a time when Portland's record is 2-9. With that in mind, here's another stat: when Powell has been on the floor, Portland is +3.1 points/100-possessions; when Simons has been on the floor, Portland is -7.0 points/100-possessions. In other words, Powell is +3.1 in 36 minutes/game; Simons is -7.0 in 16 minutes/game
     
    UKRAINEFAN and tester551 like this.
  8. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    18,123
    Likes Received:
    12,097
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That doesn't really dispute what I said, which is, what would you expect him to say? That he was offering CJ? Of course not. Show me a GM who says he's offering his 2nd best player in trades but it wasn't enough to get the deal done.
     
  9. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    22,719
    Likes Received:
    35,162
    Trophy Points:
    113
    the 'report' was Olshey was offering the 3 picks and a choice of players not including Dame, CJ, and Nurkic. So then, according to that, Olshey wouldn't offer CJ for George. You seem to be saying Olshey did and later denied it...?
     
  10. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    18,123
    Likes Received:
    12,097
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm simply saying if he had, we likely wouldn't hear it. And he certainly wouldn't say that he had. Him not getting a deal done for any of those big names is fuel enough for detractors to make the same arguments over and over about him over valuing "his" guys anyways, and laughing at who he has as untouchable.
     
  11. Fogojam

    Fogojam Lurker

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Cant you use your own argument against this, that Powells +/- numbers are much better because he is playing with starters while Ant is playing with the bench. Granted, Powell catches the harder defensive assignments, but his points per possession also benefits from playing with starters more often.
     
  12. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    22,719
    Likes Received:
    35,162
    Trophy Points:
    113
    we have seen more than one report that sure seems to confirm that he holds players untouchable that should not be untouchable. It hasn't just come from Quick or Haynes IIRC
     
  13. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    18,123
    Likes Received:
    12,097
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You already pointed out how much of the sports news cycle works. Haynes writes it, then 45 other blogs write it. And it looks like it's all over the place, with dozens of sources.
    Either way, I don't really care enough to continue. I'm not a fan of Olshey anyways.
     
  14. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    22,719
    Likes Received:
    35,162
    Trophy Points:
    113
    sure

    but my point was that comparing a 36 minute a game starter to a 13 minute a game backup on a per48 basis, for just a 10 game sample, is a flawed gauge, for a variety of reasons. The gauge I used is flawed for the reasons you cited, but it shows a completely different picture than the per48 gauge

    it may or may not be worth noting that last season both Simons and Trent were in the 2nd unit and averaged 21 minutes a game. Blazers were -1.9 with Trent on the floor, and -11.8 with Simons on the floor.
     
  15. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    22,719
    Likes Received:
    35,162
    Trophy Points:
    113
    that's all fair

    and playing my own devil's advocate you could point out that the value I place on CJ at would not lend him a lot of leverage as an asset in a trade for a star. I think 2017 and the PG13 thing might have been a different situation though
     
    RR7 likes this.
  16. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    40,154
    Likes Received:
    24,332
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    "Flawed gauge" or not - Simons has been playing well with the minutes he's been given. He's about the only Blazers' player who's a positive in his minutes.

    I don't buy the "Powell is playing out of position" excuse. That just means Olshey was stupid for acquiring a redundant player. Plus he should have an advantage in quickness and ball-handling skills, so it should even out.
     
  17. AmirIcon

    AmirIcon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,465
    Likes Received:
    5,698
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Writer, Director, Actor
    Powell has been consistently one of our best players. I don't even know what the debate is.
     
  18. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    40,154
    Likes Received:
    24,332
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    upload_2021-4-28_12-53-56.png
    upload_2021-4-28_12-54-21.png
    Just sayin'
     
  19. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    26,226
    Likes Received:
    14,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    User Interface Designer
    Location:
    Hello darkness, my old friend
    If you really believe +/- numbers from single games, it's actually incredibly impressive than Powell recorded a +8 while missing all his shots and having 1 assist versus 1 turnover. If you feel +/- in such tiny sample records the player's own contributions, then Powell must have been bringing superstar defense and intangibles, because his raw stats were terrible and yet he was still solidly positive.
     
  20. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    40,154
    Likes Received:
    24,332
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    It's all relative - how terrible must he have been that he was playing alongside Covington, who had +33.

    The Afflalo vibes off Powell are getting stronger. Here's hoping we make the playoffs so we can see if "Playoff Powell" is a thing before he leaves us in free agency.
     

Share This Page