Trib: Cavaliers coach sings praises of Bulls' Nikola Mirotic

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by transplant, Aug 3, 2014.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    He played against opponents' 2nd units a lot of the time.
     
  2. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Some of the time. He also played just about every fourth quarter minute in a tight game. I would expect even his pace adjusted numbers are artificially low.
     
  3. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    All of Q2 and late Q1 was mostly against 2nd stringers. Even the start of Q4.

    We saw Jimmy excel as a sub and when put the starting lineup his performance wasn't what we expected.

    Call it a hunch.
     
  4. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Well, can't argue with a hunch. :dunno:

    Did you guys see the interview of Kukoc at ESPN on how he thought Mirotic would make the transition. Most of it's the boilerplate platitudes you'd expect from this type of article. I thought this part was interesting though:

    First, Reinsdorf's public attacks on Cowley seem to have worked. The fans had initial concerns about Mirotic working out in Montenegro? Really? What fans? As I remember, Thibodeau was the one who made a weird face when Mirotic said that, but all of the beat reporters are ignoring the story out of fear of retribution.

    Secondly, I disagree about Kukoc's point about the players in Europe being more team-orientated. There's less specialization in Europe so there's greater spread in the distribution of touches. That isn't the same thing as teamwork. I think it's the opposite.
     
  5. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Sounds like the organization is upset with him for working with his personal (not a Bulls) coach in Montenegro.
     
  6. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

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    That's my hunch. :MARIS61:
     
  7. Bullsville

    Bullsville Intelligent Bulls Fan

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    What story?

    Mirotic said he was going to get his family, then go to Montenegro to work out with his personal coach. He then made it very, very clear that he knows he needs to be in Chicago early, and whatever coach wants, that's what he is going to do.

    I'll leave the "facial expression" interpretation to Dr Phil... but we all know that Rose works out in LA during the off-season, Noah goes to Europe, Taj is in Thailand, Gasol is in Spain... but hey, who am I to tell other people what to worry about, and what "hunches" they should have.

    Hunch away, I say...
     
  8. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Re: Trib: Cavaliers coach sings praises of Bulls' Nikola Miroti

    Do you trust KC Johnson's and Melissa Isaacson's hunches? They've both written about it. Seems like there's quite a bit of smoke behind this one.
     
  9. Bullsville

    Bullsville Intelligent Bulls Fan

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    Re: Trib: Cavaliers coach sings praises of Bulls' Nikola Miroti

    I'm confused...
     
  10. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

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    I think you're right that the lineups to finish games will be a more powerful statement than the lineups used to start them.

    I think our best reference for how this will play out is the 2011-2012 season when we had Taj/Noah/Asik/Boozer.

    Fairly egalitarian minute spread until the 7:00 mark in the fourth quarter, then Thibs went with whatever worked. I'm expecting something similar this year. Thibs will eventually settle into a rotation that doesn't change much until the end of the 4th, where it'll turn into survival of the fittest.

    I wouldn't be surprised at all if Taj is on the winning end of things.

    However, given the different skill sets of our bigs I don't think our 4th quarter lineup is going to be as etched in stone as it was last year. I think Thibs rolled with the Hinrich/DJ/Jimmy/Taj/Noah lineup because he had no other choice. He'll have more leeway to try and create matchup advantages this year and I think he'll take advantage of that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  11. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

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    My observation of Taj is that he does just as well against good players as bad ones. His numbers as a starter were always very good. I think it was clear that Thibs liked Taj as a player more than Boozer, he just started him because he didn't want to fuck with locker room chemistry. Boozer was a proud guy and it would've been bad for the team if he started sulking. (Which he did at the end of last year anyway).

    I think our series against the Wizards was so underwhelming that people overlook how good Taj was.

    He averaged 18/6/2 with 62% TS and a 26.5 PER against Gortat and Nene. And without another shot creator of any kind. And he wasn't really doing anything that he hasn't done in other games.
     
  12. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

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    Brilliant words, Transplant.

    This post inspired me to look a little deeper into potential lineups and how Pau was used with the Lakers.

    It's actually reversed my opinion about what the starting lineup should look like after thinking about it a little more.

    The last time the Lakers won a championship their best lineup by far was Fisher/Kobe/Metta/Gasol/Bynum. That unit was the horse they rode to the championship.

    It's O-rating during the regular season was 111.4. In the playoffs it was 111.4.

    For comparison the Clippers led the league this year in O-rating at 109.4. The Spurs had an O-rating of 112.7 in the playoffs.

    I would be shocked if Rose/Jimmy/Someone/Gasol/Noah had as much success. This year's Derrick is probably not going to be as good as 09-10 Kobe and we don't have prime Gasol.

    But there are some useful structural similarities between that lineup and ours. It gives me more confidence that a Gasol/Noah combination can work, at least in theory.

    I'm inclined to think replacing Dunleavy with McDermott is a more sensible way to go. Dunleavy was brought here to be a bench player, so the contrast between him and Doug isn't going to be as big as Gasol/Mirotic.
     
  13. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    We'll see. I tend to think that Thibs like to roll with guys like Gibson, Noah, Asik since he like to win with defense first and doesn't want to have to worry about the key guys at the 4 and 5 letting him down.

    But, the league changes. Thibs defensive principles from the Celtics / early Bulls days have diffused across the league. It will be interesting to see, for me at least, if he'll adjust, or if he has the players that make it worth adjusting.
     
  14. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

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    I'd counter with an observation that I think you'd agree with: Over the years Thibs has proven critics wrong about his perceived weaknesses.

    He hasn't burnt guys out and the team's stars seem to have a very good relationship with him.
    He hasn't favored defensive guys over offensive guys.
    IMO he hasn't irrationally avoided playing rookies. Snell and Asik got about as much burn as they deserved. Jimmy didn't, but he was the 30th pick on a 62 win team....guys like that usually don't play much.

    And one other data point we shouldn't disregard: last year Thibs did go with the better offensive player down the stretch. Taj just happened to be better at defense too.

    If you do a comparison there's little evidence that Boozer was the better offensive player. Boozer's efficiency and advanced metrics were awful last year. The only advantage he had over Taj last year was his better passing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    .479 shooting isn't so great for a PF who plays inside as much as Taj does.

    FWIW.

    Boozer's FG% for his career is .523, for example. Taj's is .483.
     
  16. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

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    Gibson Boozer

    PER 16 14.4
    TS% 52.4% 48.9%
    ORTG 102 95
    ORTG-Diff +2 -5(Terrible!)
    % from Midrange 39.3% 39.2%

    Gibson was the better offensive player this year.
     
  17. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Yes he was. I wasn't disputing that. I was just pointing out that it's a turd vs. a lesser turd.

    That's why I think Gasol starts :)
     
  18. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    Agreed!

    I often think of KG / Perkins being similar on D to Gibson / Noah.

    But yah, last year especially, Gibson was better on all fronts. We heard through back channels (Van Gundy) how much losing Asik stung Thibs. That's the kind of guy he likes to win with, along with Noah and Gibson.

    People use the focus on defense as a negative against Thibs. I don't really see it that way as I think coaches have particular styles and strategies as to how they like to win. Core competencies for their squads.

    Thibs has his defensive scheme. Phil has the triangle. D'Antioni does his thing. Doc Rivers has a particular way to win. I don't see anything wrong with that, as long as it is still effective.

    I think Gibson could very well be the better player this year, if healthy, unless Mirotic really breaks out.

    Maybe Gasol has a huge 2nd wind in him or Mirotic breaks out. We'll see. Then Thibs will have some tough decisions to make. I'm sure he'd have rather had Melo at the 3 and not have t worry as much on who is going to close games at the 4. And you could have your best players on the court at the same time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
  19. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Thibs may be as great an offensive coach as a defensive one.

    Look at what he did for Noah on offense.

    Or how Taj has improved.

    Etc.
     
  20. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

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    I agree that, most of the time, if you have two teams with equal talent it's better to have the one with less depth. That's why Lebron always goes deep into the playoffs. I'm also guessing that's why we went after Melo first.

    I'm hoping the plan is to Duncanize Pau and keep him between 25-30 minutes per game throughout the regular season with occasional rest.
     

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