<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (XSV @ Jun 18 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Celtic Fan @ Jun 18 2008, 10:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Jun 18 2008, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It doesn't change my perception of him, but I'm glad that it will change most people's. He's the best guard we've seen since MJ and lately I've felt that there's been this attempt to elevate him to that level. We're a bit removed from the days when Jordan dominated so its easy to get caught up in that comparison, but this series showed that Kobe is human and like every other superstar other than MJ, he needs his teammates to step up in order to be successful.</div> that's not even remotely true. Scottie Pippen is one of the 40 best players ever and the best Wing defender ever too IMO. His ability to be a great Robin to Jordan's Batman and could shut down any SG or SF. For his first 3 titles he had Horace Grant at PF, a very good defender, solider spot up shooter, great at getting open when Jordan was double teamed and a solid rebounder. For his second 3-peat toss in Rodman for Ho-Grant. They always had solid vet role players who knew their role, kinda like the Spurs. The one superstar who did more with less was Hakeem and his back to back titles while MJ was playing baseball. He had some solid clutch players like Sam Cassell and young Robert Horry, but there wasn't a true sidekick star helping him. </div> You are absolutely right. Clyde Drexler is one of the shittiest players I've ever seen play... </div> you're absolutely right, he did so much in 93/94 for the Rockets I'd forgot he was there for the 94-95 title.. whoops. Hakeem stilla averaged 33 ppg, 10 rbg, 4.5 apg on 53% shooting with 62 blks and 26 stls. Clyde did avg 20 ppg 7 rpg and 5 apg.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jun 18 2008, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why's he better than TMac?</div> Plays a better point forward.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Dream @ Jun 18 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lebron also hit the 30 point mark or better 3 or more times, Lebron also played Pierce "much" better, Lebron also had much less to work with and still almost beat this team by himself, he was able to "get off" against the C's unlike Kobe, he didn't allow his team to blow a 24 point lead at home, Lebron didn't allow (even with his crappy teammates) to be CRUSHED by damn near 40 points in an elimination game.....................the point is you have no argument against any of these points, because they're all facts, which is why you'll resort to "lol" in your next post.............there needs to be a serious "?" on whether or not kobe's the best player in the game after this series..........sorry........</div> 2 of 18, 10 turnovers in Game 1, in a "4" point loss (was closer before intentional fouls). Has Kobe EVER played that poorly in the playoffs? LeBron lost a close as hell game with a historically pathetic performance. Even basketball-reference recognizes this, as did all the writers when he was getting heat. What does having much less to work with have to do with individual numbers? Stars are supposed to get theirs at least, not historically choke as an individual for 4 straight games. Kobe has an ugly TEAM choke, LeBron has an almost unmatched playoff choke for an individual, so what are you getting all happy about? Kobe's had two great games in those series, while LeBron took off at the end of the series but choked much worse early on. Had LeBron just played "poorly" instead or all time bad, his team would have won game 1. Basketball reference gives Kobe the slight edge in overall production, with LeBron also playing more games. Their game scores rank Kobe's 81/Jordan-s 60+ 18 rebound game the best overall, and it clearly puts both Kobe's and LeBron's performance on the same level. LeBron didn't "take" anyone alone to a game 7, you've been hard on Kobe even when he clearly plays well, your argument is pointless. They both sucked.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Has Kobe EVER played that poorly in the playoffs?</div> Has Lebron EVER let a 24 point lead slip away on his homecourt.......................and you still have yet to mention anything about Lebron beasting on Kobe in their 2 matchups this year.........I guess you forgot about those....... <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>What does having much less to work with have to do with individual numbers? Stars are supposed to get theirs at least, not historically choke as an individual for 4 straight games. Kobe has an ugly TEAM choke, LeBron has an almost unmatched playoff choke for an individual, so what are you getting all happy about? Kobe's had two great games in those series, while LeBron took off at the end of the series but choked much worse early on. Had LeBron just played "poorly" instead or all time bad, his team would have won game 1.</div> and lebron had 3 great game....and in other games where he didn't shoot well he still did things to keep his team in it on both ends of the floor (Doc Rivers agrees)........look beyond the stats..................try it..........you'll like it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Hakeem stilla averaged 33 ppg, 10 rbg, 4.5 apg on 53% shooting with 62 blks and 26 stls.</div> *makes Jesus Christ say Jesus Christ*
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Has Lebron EVER let a 24 point lead slip away on his homecourt.......................and you still have yet to mention anything about Lebron beasting on Kobe in their 2 matchups this year.........I guess you forgot about those.......</div> Everything that LeBron did worse you're ignoring. It's no contest LeBron had the single worst individual performance. Hell when Pierce torched the hell out of him you don't give him much criticism. Lol Regular Season Games, and only 2 at that? Dream you're getting sad now. Kobe had better playoff numbers over all 4 rounds too, and you're all over LeBron now after saying an MVP should be like "Steve Nash", not about personal stats. Basketball-reference recognizes that LeBron had "comeback" games, but it is easy for anyone to see (even those that don't understand these "complex" ratings that had Kobe's 81/Jordan's 60-18 game #1) that the worst 4-game shooting performance in the history of the post-season, and a 10 turnover game in a close game, is not going to turn out well for your guy. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>What does having much less to work with have to do with individual numbers? Stars are supposed to get theirs at least, not historically choke as an individual for 4 straight games. Kobe has an ugly TEAM choke, LeBron has an almost unmatched playoff choke for an individual, so what are you getting all happy about? Kobe's had two great games in those series, while LeBron took off at the end of the series but choked much worse early on. Had LeBron just played "poorly" instead or all time bad, his team would have won game 1. and lebron had 3 great game....and in other games where he didn't shoot well he still did things to keep his team in it on both ends of the floor........look beyond the stats..................try it..........you'll like it.</div> If you think Kobe had an "awful" Game 2, I sure see why you think Bron was so much better. Though I have no idea how you arrived at this conclusion.
Personally, I wasn;t debating whether or not LeBron played poorly v the Spurs or at the Celtics, but I think somewhere in one of your posts you said something about team performances. How about taking the Celtics to 7 games? How about not losing on his home floor? You point at LeBron's 2-10 shooting and 10 turnovers, but he still had 9 boards and 9 assists. Kobe only beat either of these tallies once with 10 assists, and has a better supporting cast. I think LeBron played better against the Celtics, but that is mainly due to his style and his physical presence and domination. IMO Kobe can really struggle against big, physical teams since he doesn't have the physical stature of LeBron. I'm not trying to take anything away from Kobe's postseason performance, and he is probably a better overall player than LeBron, but you can't say he played better against the Celtics than LeBron.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chingy0007 @ Jun 18 2008, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Personally, I wasn;t debating whether or not LeBron played poorly v the Spurs or at the Celtics, but I think somewhere in one of your posts you said something about team performances. How about taking the Celtics to 7 games? How about not losing on his home floor? You point at LeBron's 2-10 shooting and 10 turnovers, but he still had 9 boards and 9 assists. Kobe only beat either of these tallies once with 10 assists, and has a better supporting cast. I think LeBron played better against the Celtics, but that is mainly due to his style and his physical presence and domination. IMO Kobe can really struggle against big, physical teams since he doesn't have the physical stature of LeBron. I'm not trying to take anything away from Kobe's postseason performance, and he is probably a better overall player than LeBron, but you can't say he played better against the Celtics than LeBron.</div> Listen to what you're saying, and to what Dream is saying. They are different things. Well go ahead and argue your team accomplishments, on an individual level LeBron was lower and higher on the bell curve. Not necessarily better.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chingy0007 @ Jun 18 2008, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Personally, I wasn;t debating whether or not LeBron played poorly v the Spurs or at the Celtics, but I think somewhere in one of your posts you said something about team performances. How about taking the Celtics to 7 games? How about not losing on his home floor? You point at LeBron's 2-10 shooting and 10 turnovers, but he still had 9 boards and 9 assists. Kobe only beat either of these tallies once with 10 assists, and has a better supporting cast. I think LeBron played better against the Celtics, but that is mainly due to his style and his physical presence and domination. IMO Kobe can really struggle against big, physical teams since he doesn't have the physical stature of LeBron. I'm not trying to take anything away from Kobe's postseason performance, and he is probably a better overall player than LeBron, but you can't say he played better against the Celtics than LeBron.</div> It was actually 2-18, which is like 11% lol. The Cavs only shot 30.7% in game 1.
