12 Year Old Boy with fake gun dies after shot by Ohio officer

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Uncle Ty said:
I never like to disturb people. Unless I feel the person is grossly trying to infringe on my rights, I would have no problem obliging. So I would never be the asshole (willingly), but I do support the asshole's rights to be an asshole.

So to answer your question: I would be the decent neighbor and stop shooting, but at the same time I expect you to respect my right to shoot if I choose to do so for whatever reason. I have no problem being considerate, but don't take advantage of it by taking my rights away.

I'll give you my real experience with this. I was at an airport and went to the smoking area to have a cigarette. This couple walked by and stopped right in front of me to check their luggage. The girl asked me to put my cigarette away. Wasn't that big of a deal to me so I obliged (thinking I'd just light up another one as soon as they leave). After checking their luggage, the couple decided to sit there (at the smoking area). Other people came to smoke and the couple asked, rather rudely, the same of them. One girl refused and pointed to the smoking area sign. The couple didn't seem to care and told her to go to another smoking area because they were there first.

Consideration needs to be from both parties. But the ones that insist on taking other people's rights away for their own comfort are the real assholes.
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I hear yah! Life has gotten easier since I quit smoking.
 
Uncle Ty said:
Do you think that the ordinance in your city should be re-written to prohibit the discharge of nerf guns and paint guns as well? How about water guns, too?
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My Grandsons do both in my back yard and no one knows. They can't even be seen doing it, unless you are in the inner area. A heavy growth of natural coast range vegetation surrounds the perimeter and I am going to leave it that way. So what do you think? Can't annoy anyone if they don't know, can't see, can't hear. They don't discharge weapons or shoot pellets or BBs. I have had no complaint. I am happy with the result.
 
MarAzul said:
My Grandsons do both in my back yard and no one knows. They can't even be seen doing it, unless you are in the inner area. A heavy growth of natural coast range vegetation surrounds the perimeter and I am going to leave it that way. So what do you think? Can't annoy anyone if they don't know, can't see, can't hear. They don't discharge weapons or shoot pellets or BBs. I have had no complaint. I am happy with the result.
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What I don't understand is how a BB gun would upset someone. They're virtually silent. I shot my BB gun in my back yard all the time. It was an old pump action.


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Natebishop3 said:
What I don't understand is how a BB gun would upset someone. They're virtually silent. I shot my BB gun in my back yard all the time. It was an old pump action.


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I lived in West Linn for a number of years, one of my next door neighbors was a guy name Chuck Dunning. He is gone now so I can tell his name. He was the son of Red Dunning, and early TV personality in Portland.

http://www.pdxhistory.com/html/kointv.html

He had two young boys, one about 6 and the other about nine. Chuck let the nine year old shoot a BB gun in the back yard. One day I heard the BB gun popping off and then pretty soon, my dog was going nuts, so I investigate. The dog was trying like hell to get over the fence into Lance's yard. I bring the dog in and try to calm him down but he was worked up.
A big dog he was too, a Great Pyrenees, he weight in at around 140 pounds so I sure didn't want him over in the neighbors yard all pissed off.

Just a few days later I hear the BB gun again, I stick my head out the back garage door just in time to see Lance shooting the dog with the BB gun. The dog goes nuts again and Lance runs in the house.

I go over an talk with Chuck. He assures me that his kids wouldn't shoot the dog, no way.
I think to myself, what a dick head, and I go check the dog out. He has a real thick coat of fur and it's difficult to find any thing but I do find one spot he bitches about with a bit of blood.
Lance's BB gun is a pump gun that shoots BBs and .177 pellets, a pretty powerful little gun.

So I take the dog to the vet and get him checked out. The vet knows how to do it much better than me and he pulls about a dozen BBs out of the dog. A couple in the right front shoulder have caused some infecton to start. The whole damn thing cost me about a $1000 bucks.

But I do have a handful of BBs and Mr Dunning had one pissed off neighbor.

I don't think Lance is an exception, probably pretty normal for a kid too young to take proper care of what is ok to shoot.
 
MarAzul said:
I lived in West Linn for a number of years, one of my next door neighbors was a guy name Chuck Dunning. He is gone now so I can tell his name. He was the son of Red Dunning, and early TV personality in Portland.

http://www.pdxhistory.com/html/kointv.html

He had two young boys, one about 6 and the other about nine. Chuck let the nine year old shoot a BB gun in the back yard. One day I heard the BB gun popping off and then pretty soon, my dog was going nuts, so I investigate. The dog was trying like hell to get over the fence into Lance's yard. I bring the dog in and try to calm him down but he was worked up.
A big dog he was too, a Great Pyrenees, he weight in at around 140 pounds so I sure didn't want him over in the neighbors yard all pissed off.

Just a few days later I hear the BB gun again, I stick my head out the back garage door just in time to see Lance shooting the dog with the BB gun. The dog goes nuts again and Lance runs in the house.

I go over an talk with Chuck. He assures me that his kids wouldn't shoot the dog, no way.
I think to myself, what a dick head, and I go check the dog out. He has a real thick coat of fur and it's difficult to find any thing but I do find one spot he bitches about with a bit of blood.
Lance's BB gun is a pump gun that shoots BBs and .177 pellets, a pretty powerful little gun.

So I take the dog to the vet and get him checked out. The vet knows how to do it much better than me and he pulls about a dozen BBs out of the dog. A couple in the right front shoulder have caused some infecton to start. The whole damn thing cost me about a $1000 bucks.

But I do have a handful of BBs and Mr Dunning had one pissed off neighbor.

I don't think Lance is an exception, probably pretty normal for a kid too young to take proper care of what is ok to shoot.
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Are you kidding? Only a psychopath, even at that age, would think its okay to shoot a neighbors dog with a BB gun. You should have spoken with the police. The kid was exhibiting the signs of a serial killer. 9 years old is old enough to know the difference between right and wrong. That's the behavior of a young sociopath.


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MARIS61 said:
If you live under the terms of an HOA, The Constitution and The Bill of Rights really don't apply to you in your home as you've voluntarily waived them in writing.
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Exactly. I waived em willingly.
 
Shotgun made to look like a toy.

JzFGLcj.jpg


This is why police have to shoot first and ask questions later.
 
Cleveland police's fatal shooting of Tamir Rice ruled a homicide

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/12/justice/cleveland-tamir-rice/index.html

The death of Tamir Rice, a 12-year-old boy who was shot last month by a Cleveland police officer who authorities say mistook the child's air gun for a real firearm, has been ruled a homicide, the Cuyahoga County Medical Examiner's Office said Friday.

The November 22 shooting outside a Cleveland recreation center is under investigation, and Tamir's family has filed a lawsuit against two officers and the city over his death.

The homicide finding indicates that Tamir was killed by the police officer, rather than dying accidentally or by natural causes or by suicide. Medical examiners' homicide findings make no comment on whether the killing constitutes a crime.
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Time for the Feds to step in and clean house throughout the entire county legal system.
 
Did you read what the FBI dude said and see the other angles of the videos? It wasn't as cut and dry as some may think.
 
blue32 said:
Did you read what the FBI dude said and see the other angles of the videos? It wasn't as cut and dry as some may think.
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The first couple of posts are very interesting.

It shouldn't have been before a Grand Jury.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
The first couple of posts are very interesting.

It shouldn't have been before a Grand Jury.
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I wasn't debating the fucked up legal part of the situation that's for sure. We all know the system is corrupt.

What I'm saying, is that the extra angles of the video definitely lend credence to the fact that the suspect was messing around near his waist band as the cops rolled up. I don't remember if it was just the FBI analysis, or someone at the FBI went on record to say the police were within their limits, of their current training, to respond the way they did. We can also argue that their training is systemically flawed across America, but that's another discussion.
 
jlprk said:
Good article...and the comments are full of information, too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tamir-rice-timothy-mcginty_5681d451e4b014efe0d91562
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It is interesting that people are simply dismissing the fact that the kid was threatening/brandishing at people with a toy replica gun (that had its orange cap removed). It just blows my mind that people wouldn't think there wouldn't be grave consequences for that type of behavior and also the fact that his parents didn't instill common sense into him that would have helped prevent this.

All around, a tragic situation.
 
I just showed the video of this shooting to my nine year old Grandson. I was watching him and his younger brother playing with toy gun last night when it occurred you me to explain the
danger in playing with toy guns outside the safety of our compound. Any where else where people can see you might cause a problem.

He asked, why did they shoot him as soon as they drove up? I said, I don't know, except they probably didn't know the gun was a toy, and they were afraid of a guy with a real gun waving it about.

Then he said, Grandpa, why are you telling me this, I only play with guns here and in my house? Well, I feel like I need to show you what could happen if I didn't make sure you know the things that cause Cops to shoot people. Ok Grandpa.
 
MarAzul said:
I just showed the video of this shooting to my nine year old Grandson. I was watching him and his younger brother playing with toy gun last night when it occurred you me to explain the
danger in playing with toy guns outside the safety of our compound. Any where else where people can see you might cause a problem.

He asked, why did they shoot him as soon as they drove up? I said, I don't know, except they probably didn't know the gun was a toy, and they were afraid of a guy with a real gun waving it about.

Then he said, Grandpa, why are you telling me this, I only play with guns here and in my house? Well, I feel like I need to show you what could happen if I didn't make sure you know the things that cause Cops to shoot people. Ok Grandpa.
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Your Birds and the Bees conversation with them is going to be epic!

"Kids, this is Reverse Cowgirl. You should do it only on the compound."
 
SlyPokerDog said:
It shouldn't have been before a Grand Jury.
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I don't see why not. The system is what it is. If you want the police procedures and policies to change then you need to get the elected and appointed leaders to follow a new system which includes training officers on how you want it done. Grand Juries and Jury Trails are not the tools to affect the change needed.
 
If all officers were require to have Phd's, and do the job without guns, could cities hire enough to keep order?

What GPA would be the minimum cutoff for those continuing on to the Phd cop program?
 
oldmangrouch said:
The bitter irony: an adult with a real gun is protected by open carry laws - a child with a toy can be shot down with impunity.
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not really. the child's "toy" gun looked exactly like a real gun and he was brandishing/threatening people with it.

If I went about and did the same shit, cops would be on me in no time. If I reached in/towards my waistband like he did while they were there I'd be fucking dead.

There is no irony.
 
MarAzul said:
If all officers were require to have Phd's, and do the job without guns, could cities hire enough to keep order?

What GPA would be the minimum cutoff for those continuing on to the Phd cop program?
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Wow! Not one response from the whiners.
 
blue32 said:
not really. the child's "toy" gun looked exactly like a real gun and he was brandishing/threatening people with it.

If I went about and did the same shit, cops would be on me in no time. If I reached in/towards my waistband like he did while they were there I'd be fucking dead.

There is no irony.
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You got that right. One big difference though, no one would give a shit.
 
A man whose bid to become a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an intelligence test has lost an appeal in his federal lawsuit against the city.

The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York upheld a lower court’s decision that the city did not discriminate against Robert Jordan because the same standards were applied to everyone who took the test.

“This kind of puts an official face on discrimination in America against people of a certain class,” Jordan said today from his Waterford home. “I maintain you have no more control over your basic intelligence than your eye color or your gender or anything else.”

He said he does not plan to take any further legal action.

Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, took the exam in 1996 and scored 33 points, the equivalent of an IQ of 125. But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training.

Most Cops Just Above Normal The average score nationally for police officers is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104, or just a little above average.

Jordan alleged his rejection from the police force was discrimination. He sued the city, saying his civil rights were violated because he was denied equal protection under the law.

But the U.S. District Court found that New London had “shown a rational basis for the policy.” In a ruling dated Aug. 23, the 2nd Circuit agreed. The court said the policy might be unwise but was a rational way to reduce job turnover.

Jordan has worked as a prison guard since he took the test.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836
 
blue32 said:
not really. the child's "toy" gun looked exactly like a real gun and he was brandishing/threatening people with it.

If I went about and did the same shit, cops would be on me in no time. If I reached in/towards my waistband like he did while they were there I'd be fucking dead.

There is no irony.
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So, the FACT that he was a kid and no actual threat to anybody doesn't enter into it? The cop was WRONG...period. He used lethal force in response to a nonexistent threat. This isn't about race or politics - this is about basic fricking humanity!
 
oldmangrouch said:
So, the FACT that he was a kid and no actual threat to anybody doesn't enter into it? The cop was WRONG...period. He used lethal force in response to a nonexistent threat. This isn't about race or politics - this is about basic fricking humanity!
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The DA said the kid wore size 36 pants. Cops are trained to differentiate kids from adults by the size of their pants. He also had a big bulge in his pants. Cops are trained to differentiate kids from adults by penis size. The kid had big pants and a big penis, now maybe you will understand why he got shot.
 
oldmangrouch said:
So, the FACT that he was a kid and no actual threat to anybody doesn't enter into it? The cop was WRONG...period. He used lethal force in response to a nonexistent threat. This isn't about race or politics - this is about basic fricking humanity!
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The threat was very real with the evidence they had at the time.

- The suspect was brandishing a gun and threatening people. NOBODY KNEW the gun was fake because the freaking orange tip was removed (Smart parents there..).
- The suspect was far bigger than your normal 12 year old kid, and honestly with kids now-a-days being the size of adults when they're in their teen years, trying to differentiate that on a 'gun' call is meaningless.
- The suspect reached towards his waistband as soon as the police rolled up. That generally means they are going for something.

Kid defense is moot, because quite often KIDS commit violent crimes. When kids have guns all bets are fucking off in my book, specially ones that have no regard for the law or morals, like waiving or brandishing a gun at people in a park.

Now, in defense of the suspect, the police should have parked many yards away and used extreme caution when confronting the suspect. There was no freaking reason why those two numb skulls had to roll up on the suspect within 10 feet like Starsky and Hutch. For that reason alone I'd punish them. Do I think its a murder charge no. Do I think they should face some other lesser charge, maybe. Do I think they should be removed from the Police force, yes. Do I think that there needs to be some more reform in all of the Police forces across America in regards to using guns, yes. But there is no way in hell I am placing all of this blame on the Police officers.
 
Uncle Ty said:
That's according to a caller. The two cops certainly didn't see Rice brandishing a gun and threatening people. Video didn't show Rice threatening anyone either.

Couldn't the two cops have assessed the situation first and not completely relied on the information relayed to them via a caller before they went in gun blazing?

What if the caller had lied? What if the caller was wrong about Rice threatening people (as the caller was wrong about the gun)? Are cops simply mindless weapons or are they capable of assessing a situation before they react? These two cops certainly didn't take any time (unless two seconds suffice) to assess the situation before they resort to deadly force.


Wouldn't have mattered one bit if the orange tip hadn't been removed. The pellet gun was tucked in Rice's pant and Rice was shot before he had the chance to pull the gun out. This argument that the cop that shot Rice couldn't discern Rice's pellet gun from a real gun because Rice's pellet gun looked real is utter bullshit. They didn't even have the time to look to evaluate whether the gun is real or not. They saw what looked to be the butt of a gun and then Rice is shot.

And about blaming Rice's parents: reports stated that Rice obtained the pellet gun from a friend who had removed the orange tip.
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* The orange tip matters because the caller would have seen that, and not called the police at all. Shooting averted.
* I blame the parents for not telling (or instilling values into) their children, who live in an urban environment, to not play around with toy guns that have had their orange tips removed. ESPECIALLY in public places. (When I was a kid, we NEVER played around with fake guns in the public; if we did any Airsoft-like (so guns looked real) stuff, it was always in the forest away from people)
 
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