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PapaG

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The most important person in the grunge revolution, and basically in saving real rock music, was allegedly murdered by people associated with his wife.

[video=youtube;GHRA4jqeCaQ]

EDIT - because it pasted the wrong video. LOL

I was wondering about the Obama stuff. :)
 
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The most important person in the grunge revolution, and basically in saving real rock music, was allegedly murdered by people associated with his wife.

[video=youtube;GHRA4jqeCaQ]


I knew Obama was hip. I didn't know he used to live in Seattle.
 
Courtney Love is a bat shit crazy bitch so I wouldn't be surprised if she did have him killed. That chick is seriously off her rocker.... no pun intended.
 
Now, I can believe that Michelle Obama had a posse that took out Curt Cobain. And I can certainly believe that the people of the Côte d'Ivoire were complicit, as they are both French-sounding and probably muslim.

But that looks like a mother-fucking INCANDESCENT BULB in that lamp in the background! Where the FUCK are the fluorescents? UNBELIEVABLE.
 
Oh ronan, you were but a wee lad when grunge was popular, so I can't expect you to appreciate the gravity of this topic.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
We were all wee lads at some point in time. So glad I missed that era...
 
We were all wee lads at some point in time. So glad I missed that era...

You crazy fuckers over there were raised on the music of the Spice Girls and Robbie Williams, with some Paul Oakenfold raving thrown in for good measure..
 
You crazy fuckers over there were raised on the music of the Spice Girls and Robbie Williams, with some Paul Oakenfold raving thrown in for good measure..

Yeah, nevermind Radiohead, Oasis, The Prodigy, The Verve, Stereophonics, Chemical Brothers, or Fat Boy Slim...
 
Nirvana was great, but the Stone Roses were better. And let's not forget Teenage Fanclub, a group that Cobain at one point proclaimed the best band in the world. The UK did just fine musically. ;)
 
Nirvana was great, but the Stone Roses were better. And let's not forget Teenage Fanclub, a group that Cobain at one point proclaimed the best band in the world. The UK did just fine musically. ;)

Cobain's greatest influence, as he admitted to being a "rip-off" of, were the Pixies.

Spice Girls, Robbie Williams, and Simon Cowell. Thanks for nothing, UK.
 
Cobain's greatest influence, as he admitted to being a "rip-off" of, were the Pixies.

The Pixies were also a band he loved. As were Shonen Knife and Sonic Youth.

The point is, the UK indie/alternative scene was as strong, if not more so. Their mainstream was as bad as the US'.
 
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Cobain's greatest influence, as he admitted to being a "rip-off" of, were the Pixies.

Spice Girls, Robbie Williams, and Simon Cowell. Thanks for nothing, UK.

Sorry, what? I can't understand French.
 
The Pixies were also a band he loved. As were Shonen Knife and Sonic Youth.

The point is, the UK indie/alternative scene was as strong, if not more so. Their mainstream was as bad as the US'. Sugar Ray, Matchbox 20, the swing pop bands? Okay.

I'm not saying there aren't good UK bands, but in terms of worldwide impact on the direction of music, the US bands have always been the influence. The two major exceptions, IMO, are the Beatles, and they had to come to the US in order to grow from their I Wanna Hold Your Hand bubblegum days, and Black Sabbath, who took what the Beatles and Cream were doing, and made it heavy and dark.

Some people may argue Led Zeppelin, The Who, or even The Rolling Stones, but in terms of influence, they were basically just great rock and roll bands, and didn't do much in terms of leaving a last impact on evolution of music (unless playing really, really loud, like The Who, counts).
 
I'm not saying there aren't good UK bands, but in terms of worldwide impact on the direction of music, the US bands have always been the influence. The two major exceptions, IMO, are the Beatles, and they had to come to the US in order to grow from their I Wanna Hold Your Hand bubblegum days, and Black Sabbath, who took what the Beatles and Cream were doing, and made it heavy and dark.

That's way off. While the US started the rock/pop era, the Beatles, Rolling Stones and Who had massive worldwide influence in the 1960s. The only US band of the time that wasn't completely washed away by that tide, in terms of influence, was the Beach Boys. The British created and popularized heavy metal with Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath. The UK created glam rock in the '70s (Bowie, Roxie Music, T.Rex, etc). The UK punk scene (Clash, Sex Pistols, Buzzcocks, etc) was the seminal scene of the late-70s and turned into the new wave movement that dominated the early 1980s. That UK punk scene, while not the first instances of punk, is still what pretty much everyone thinks of when they think of punk roots. And punk is a massive part of rock/pop.

Grunge was certainly a major movement in the 1990s, but the UK had their own acid house scene at the same time that pushed dance beats into the pop mainstream.

The Beatles didn't have to come to the US to get beyond their early music style. The two were completely unrelated. The Beatles changed musically as they got older (and it's pretty arguable, IMO, whether they ever made a better song or a more impactful song than "She Loves You").

The US has a great pop history (and there are some forgotten bands, by the mainstream, that had massive influence on music, like Velvet Underground, Big Star and the Pixies), but I don't think it's remotely true that all the worldwide impact on musical direction came from the US.
 
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That's way off. While the US started the rock/pop era, the Beatles, Rolling Stones and Who had massive worldwide influence in the 1960s. The only US band of the time that wasn't completely washed away by that tide, in terms of influence, was the Beach Boys. The British created and popularized heavy metal with Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath. The UK created glam rock in the '70s (Bowie, Roxie Music, T.Rex, etc). The UK punk scene (Clash, Sex Pistols, Buzzcocks, etc) was the seminal scene of the late-70s and turned into the new wave movement that dominated the early 1980s. That UK punk scene, while not the first instances of punk, is still what pretty much everyone thinks of when they think of punk roots. And punk is a massive part of rock/pop.

Grunge was certainly a major movement in the 1990s, but the UK had their own acid house scene at the same time that pushed dance beats into the pop mainstream.

The Beatles didn't have to come to the US to get beyond their early music style. The two were completely unrelated. The Beatles changed musically as they got older (and it's pretty arguable, IMO, whether they ever made a better song or a more impactful song than "She Loves You").

The US has a great pop history (and there are some forgotten bands, by the mainstream, that had massive influence on music, like Velvet Underground, Big Star and the Pixies), but I don't think it's remotely true that all the worldwide impact on musical direction came from the US.

Right. Swing, Jazz, Rock, Blues, Soul, etc. all started in London as well. It's interesting to see the perspective from an English person.

History didn't start with Led Zeppelin. LOL

As for glam rock, I don't really consider that ground-breaking; it was basically just an offshoot of an existing genre. I'd credit Portland's own The Kingsmen, for example, of being more influential to rock as a genre than David Bowie.
 
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Right. Swing, Jazz, Rock, Blues, Soul, etc. all started in London as well.

I never said everything came from the UK. But a strawman is generally a useful way to deflect being wrong about something. :)

It's interesting to see the perspective from an English person.

I'm American, actually. Born in the US and lived almost my entire life in the US. And I've lived zero part of my life in the UK, outside of a one week visit to England.

History didn't start with Led Zeppelin. LOL

LOL. How true.

As for glam rock, I don't really consider that ground-breaking; it was basically just an offshoot of an existing genre.

Everything in rock and pop can be called an "offshoot of an existing genre." That's not a very compelling argument. Glam had a lot of influence on metal that came after it in addition to the punk scene that flourished in the late '70s.
 
to be fair, alot of the beatles early songs were written by americans, but they killed it after they started writing their own stuff.
 
to be fair, alot of the beatles early songs were written by americans, but they killed it after they started writing their own stuff.

Do you mean their R&B covers? They did do a lot of those and I thought those were drags on their albums. They didn't bring anything new to them. But I think the early songs that they wrote were strong.
 
Do you mean their R&B covers? They did do a lot of those and I thought those were drags on their albums. They didn't bring anything new to them. But I think the early songs that they wrote were strong.

yeah im not a fan either, but songs like american writen songs comprised more than half of their early albums.

take for instance the "please please me" album, some great songs they wrote like "love me do" but about half of those songs are american.
 
Nirvana was great - and Nevermind is one of the greatest albums of all time imho - but the UK had their own version of "Grunge" before Seattle in offshoots of Alternative rock - groups like the Jesus and Mary Chain smelled like Nirvana before Nirvana made songs that allowed Weird Al to do "Smells like Nirvana".
 
Nirvana was great - and Nevermind is one of the greatest albums of all time imho - but the UK had their own version of "Grunge" before Seattle in offshoots of Alternative rock - groups like the Jesus and Mary Chain smelled like Nirvana before Nirvana made songs that allowed Weird Al to do "Smells like Nirvana".

Yeah, you might want to read the entire thread. We're already on influences.

I'll add my belief that Butch Vig took a band with two great musicians (Grohl and Cobain) and made them the biggest band in the world for a short time because of his production. Without Vig, Nirvana would be just another Pixies rip-off, and as someone who owns the entire Nirvana collection, including bootlegs and demos, it's not easy for me to say this. I enjoy the garage days of Nirvana, but after getting together with Vig, Grohl and Cobain reached heights they couldn't have before. Unlike his work with Smashing Pumpkins, where he took an average band with a decent songwriter and made them stars, Vig and Nirvana did change music on a larger scale.

Of course, I'm also a big Linkin Park fan, and think that they took what Nirvana was doing and made it different, but not necessarily better, so my judgement may called into question. :)
 
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Of course, I'm also a big Linkin Park fan, and think that they took what Nirvana was doing and made it different, but not necessarily better, so my judgement may called into question. :)

if you mean they took "music" and made it different, i agree
 
Nirvana was great - and Nevermind is one of the greatest albums of all time imho - but the UK had their own version of "Grunge" before Seattle in offshoots of Alternative rock - groups like the Jesus and Mary Chain smelled like Nirvana before Nirvana made songs that allowed Weird Al to do "Smells like Nirvana".

Absolutely. The Jesus & Mary Chain, Sonic Youth and Mudhoney never get the credit they deserve. Even Teenage Fanclub, who later became completely associated with power pop, started off as proto-grunge.

I'll second that Nevermind is one of the greatest albums of all-time. And I think Cobain's unplugged album is an underappreciated marvel.
 

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