$1m for 21 pepper-sprayed UC-Davis Occupiers

[The_Lillard_King]

Fascinating point. That would make a great thread topic.

The legal system is not to shape society. Especially in areas of tort.

I disagree. Our courts shape society and what is and is not acceptable. In Oregon it's utilzed through punative damages which is more about punishing the conduct than compensating for the injuries.

Really it is facinating. Courts through their laws and rulings tell us what conduct is and is not allowed. Punishing people or companies for bad conduct should make other people and companies stop and think before acting. If it was just how much their actions were hurting people, then companies hurting people becomes a cost benefit analysis . . . and it should never be a cost benefit analysis when compnaies decide to do something unlawfully.

 

[Ed O]

If it was just how much their actions were hurting people, then companies hurting people becomes a cost benefit analysis . . . and it should never be a cost benefit analysis when compnaies decide to do something unlawfully.

Of course it should. And it still is. It's just the cost side of the analysis has been increased because of tort actions.

Ed O.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Of course it should. And it still is. It's just the cost side of the analysis has been increased because of tort actions.

Ed O.

Really, you think cost benefit anaylsis is proper by companies even if people are getting hurt? I don't think it should be thought of like that. I suppose companies aren't bound to any ethics, but they should be.

 

[Denny Crane]

Really, you think cost benefit anaylsis is proper by companies even if people are getting hurt? I don't think it should be thought of like that. I suppose companies aren't bound to any ethics, but they should be.

114 people died building the hoover dam. Should they have built it? Or do you think there was a cost benefit analysis made?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

114 people died building the hoover dam. Should they have built it? Or do you think there was a cost benefit analysis made?

I think every possible step should be taken to avoid deaths in that situation. Accidents happen and if you enter a high risk job, you should know the possible consequences and hopefully be compensated for the risk.

My turn: Ford discovers a brake defect on thier most popular vehicle. Financial analysis says it will cost three times as much to do a recall as it will to pay for the injuries and deaths that they have to settle in any lawsuits.

Should Ford not do a recall?

 

[Ed O]

I think every possible step should be taken to avoid deaths in that situation. Accidents happen and if you enter a high risk job, you should know the possible consequences and hopefully be compensated for the risk.

"Every possible step" means not building the dam.

My turn: Ford discovers a brake defect on thier most popular vehicle. Financial analysis says it will cost three times as much to do a recall as it will to pay for the injuries and deaths that they have to settle in any lawsuits.

Should Ford not do a recall?

I don't think that they should, no. The costs come from somewhere: retirement accounts of investors, taxes paid to government, research and development, etc., etc. I don't think that the company should change its analysis because of the possibility of death or injury.

Anyone who's injured or killed should be compensated accordingly, of course.

Ed O.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

"Every possible step" means not building the dam.



I don't think that they should, no. The costs come from somewhere: retirement accounts of investors, taxes paid to government, research and development, etc., etc. I don't think that the company should change its analysis because of the possibility of death or injury.

Anyone who's injured or killed should be compensated accordingly, of course.

Ed O.

OK every possible step to avoid death while getting the project done, better? If you want to avoid any deaths, you would not have police dept, fire dept, crab fishing

And I completely disagree (but respect) your position on the Ford situation. If the deaths could have been avoided, even if it cost the company more money, than they should be required to take those steps to avoid the deaths. That is what I would want in society, but understand if some people and big business don't think society should work like that.

 

[Denny Crane]

People get into accidents in their cars and die. Should the automakers stop making cars?

In fact, one of the funniest things is Ralph Nader became famous for his book, "unsafe at any speed" in which he went after Chevy for the Corvair's supposedly being unsafe. Lots of pomposity and so on. Turns out the corvair was no less safe than other similar cars/makes/models made the same years. And the really unsafe cars were the corvettes and z-28s. People go 150 MPH in those and go out with a real bang.

http://voices.yahoo.com/was-corvair-really-unsafe-any-speed-498093.html?cat=27

And now the question: Was the Corvair really unsafe at any speed?

The answer: The 1960-1963 Corvair models targeted by Nader were at least as safe as comparable car models sold in those years. This conclusion, ironically, came from a 1972 study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

People get into accidents in their cars and die. Should the automakers stop making cars?

In fact, one of the funniest things is Ralph Nader became famous for his book, "unsafe at any speed" in which he went after Chevy for the Corvair's supposedly being unsafe. Lots of pomposity and so on. Turns out the corvair was no less safe than other similar cars/makes/models made the same years. And the really unsafe cars were the corvettes and z-28s. People go 150 MPH in those and go out with a real bang.

http://voices.yahoo.com/was-corvair-really-unsafe-any-speed-498093.html?cat=27

And now the question: Was the Corvair really unsafe at any speed?

The answer: The 1960-1963 Corvair models targeted by Nader were at least as safe as comparable car models sold in those years. This conclusion, ironically, came from a 1972 study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

You know, I answered your question. You never answered mine. Can I assume you do not think Ford should recall the cars even if they know the defect could likely lead to fatal accidents because the recalls will cost more?

 

[Denny Crane]

You know, I answered your question. You never answered mine. Can I assume you do not think Ford should recall the cars even if they know the defect could likely lead to fatal accidents because the recalls will cost more?

I think ford should not keep it a secret that there's some safety issue with a vehicle they produce. Who pays for the fix (or not) is up for debate.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I think ford should not keep it a secret that there's some safety issue with a vehicle they produce. Who pays for the fix (or not) is up for debate.

Hey, look at that, we partially agree. At the very least they should not keep secret some safety issue, even if it means more cost to the company or whoever.

 

[PapaG]

If it was any lower do you think the police will hesitate to do it again? I don't 1 million sends a loud enough message to the police, IMO.

The police don't care. It's not coming out of their pockets or their union's pocket. It's a taxpayer-funded penalty that won't impact the PD a single bit, and will just come out of the UC general education fund.

May as well just hand out money ... oh wait, CA already does that.

 

[PapaG]

who's going to ask what happens to the 20 cops they need to fire to come up with that $1M?

It won't even touch the police union. It's going to come out of the general taxpayer fund. That's what is so hilarious about it.

 

[Nate Dogg]

My thought is, were the students really preventing classes to start because they were blocking the sidewalks? Why were they pepper sprayed to begin with since its private property?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

My thought is, were the students really preventing classes to start because they were blocking the sidewalks? Why were they pepper sprayed to begin with since its private property?

Because it's fun, silly.

 

[huevonkiller]

It won't even touch the police union. It's going to come out of the general taxpayer fund. That's what is so hilarious about it.

This is true so no matter what you do the police will remain incompetent, as long as the government forces us to pay them.

 

[Ed O]

This is true so no matter what you do the police will remain incompetent, as long as the government forces us to pay them.

"Incompetent" compared to what? I have a pretty crime-free life (meaning I rarely experience it), and I attribute that in large part to the presence of police.

Ed O.