1st Debate! Trump vs Clinton

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barfo said:
This is what opposition to the war looks like. This is from October 2002, 3.5 months before Trump's wishy-washy statement about 'do it or don't do it, I don't know.'



Now, compare and contrast to:



Trump is a real anti-war hero, all right.

barfo
Click to expand...

Hilarious that you use proven liar and armchair warhawk Obama's tl:dr droning campaign trail speech where he hangs on the coattails of Real American heroes who died to preserve the freedoms he has constantly assailed. It's an insulting diatribe that accurately describes his 2 administrations, step by step. He did everything reverse of what he called on Bush to do.

You realize he lost 2 wars and started 3 more, that we know of?
 
e_blazer said:
I didn't know that Obama was running again.

Here's another quote on the subject:

Hillary's quote sounds considerably more pro-war than Trump's somewhat tepid response on Cavuto's show.
Click to expand...

No, Obama's not running again, but that's not relevant to my point.

There's no question that Hillary was for the war. She voted for it.

That's not the issue here. [It is a perfectly legitimate issue, it just doesn't happen to be the one we were discussing]

The issue we were discussing was whether Trump can legitimately claim to have been anti-war, when all he said was 'maybe, I dunno'.

barfo
 
Chris Craig said:
That was pretty bad...she should have fact checked his ass right there on the air
Click to expand...
She's neither honest, nor trustworthy. Why trust her spin on fact checking?

She had her time at the mic.
 
Trump's website on foreign policy and defeating ISIS. Seems very specific, and very sensible:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/foreign-policy-and-defeating-isis/

DONALD J. TRUMP’S VISION
  • Peace through strength will be at the center of our foreign policy. We will achieve a stable, peaceful world with less conflict and more common ground.
  • Advance America’s core national interests, promote regional stability, and produce an easing of tensions in the world. Work with Congress to fully repeal the defense sequester and submit a new budget to rebuild our depleted military.
  • Rebuild our military, enhance and improve intelligence and cyber capabilities.
  • End the current strategy of nation-building and regime change.
  • Ensure our security procedures and refugee policy takes into account the security of the American people.
Read Donald J. Trump’s Plan to Make America Safe and Respected Again, here.

  • Work with our Arab allies and friends in the Middle East so they can lead the fight against the Islamic State.
  • Pursue aggressive joint and coalition military operations to crush and destroy ISIS, international cooperation to cutoff their funding, expand intelligence sharing, and cyberwarfare to disrupt and disable their propaganda and recruiting.
  • Defeat the ideology of radical Islamic terrorism just as we won the Cold War.
  • Establish new screening procedures and enforce our immigration laws to keep terrorists out of the United States.
  • Suspend, on a temporary basis, immigration from some of the most dangerous and volatile regions of the world that have a history of exporting terrorism.
  • Establish a Commission on Radical Islam to identify and explain to the American public the core convictions and beliefs of Radical Islam, to identify the warning signs of radicalization, and to expose the networks in our society that support radicalization.
Read Donald J. Trump’s Detailed Plan to Defeat ISIS, here.

KEY ISSUES
  • ISIS is responsible for the deaths of more than 1,000 people outside of Iraq and Syria. [The New York Times, July 16, 2016]
  • In 2014, ISIS was operating in some seven nations. Today they are fully operational in 18 countries with aspiring branches in six more regions, for a total of 24 branches. [NBC News, Aug. 8, 2016]
  • Iran, the world’s largest state sponsor of terrorism, is now flush with $150 billion in cash released by the United States – plus another $400 million in ransom. [The Wall Street Journal, Aug. 3, 2016]
CONTRAST WITH HILLARY CLINTON
  • Before the Obama-Clinton Administration took over: Libya was stable, Syria was under control, Egypt was ruled by a secular president and an ally of the United States, Iraq was experiencing a reduction in violence, the group that would become what we now call ISIS was close to being extinguished, and Iran was being choked off by economic sanctions.
    • Fast-forward to today: Libya is in ruins, our ambassador and three other brave Americans are dead, ISIS has gained a new base of operations, Syria is in the midst of a disastrous civil war, ISIS controls large portions of territory, a refugee crisis now threatens Europe and the United States, terrorists have gained a foothold in the Sinai desert, Iraq is in chaos, and ISIS is on the loose. ISIS has spread across the Middle East, and into the West.
  • The Obama-Clinton election-driven timetable for withdrawal from Iraq led directly to the rise of ISIS. [Donald J. Trump Press Release, July 28, 2016]
  • Secretary Hillary Clinton’s forceful advocacy for the intervention in Libya to build a Democracy is regarded as President Obama’s worst mistake. In addition, under Secretary Clinton, regime change in Syria and the overthrowing of Mubarak in Egypt destabilized the world. [Donald J. Trump Press Release, July 28, 2016]
  • Hillary Clinton’s State Department admitted five refugees and one translator who were later charged with terrorism and related crimes. [Donald J. Trump Press Release, Aug. 15, 2016]
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I'm in favor of invading Canada, Trump and Clinton are not.
Click to expand...

Not true. In 1983, Trump said "I dunno, I guess I like maple syrup ok sometimes."

That's evidence that he was 100% behind invading Canada.

barfo
 
MARIS61 said:
You realize he lost 2 wars and started 3 more, that we know of?
Click to expand...

No, I don't realize that. Please tell me about them. Also per previous post, please tell me about Trump's use of H1B visas, and whether that makes him a POS traitor.

barfo
 
barfo said:
No, I don't realize that. Please tell me about them. Also per previous post, please tell me about Trump's use of H1B visas, and whether that makes him a POS traitor.

barfo
Click to expand...
H2B visas. They're legal. Who approved them?

Backfire much?
 
MARIS61 said:
Trump's website on foreign policy and defeating ISIS. Seems very specific, and very sensible:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/foreign-policy-and-defeating-isis/

DONALD J. TRUMP’S VISION
  • Peace through strength will be at the center of our foreign policy. We will achieve a stable, peaceful world with less conflict and more common ground.
  • Advance America’s core national interests, promote regional stability, and produce an easing of tensions in the world. Work with Congress to fully repeal the defense sequester and submit a new budget to rebuild our depleted military.
  • Rebuild our military, enhance and improve intelligence and cyber capabilities.
  • End the current strategy of nation-building and regime change.
  • Ensure our security procedures and refugee policy takes into account the security of the American people.
Read Donald J. Trump’s Plan to Make America Safe and Respected Again, here.

  • Work with our Arab allies and friends in the Middle East so they can lead the fight against the Islamic State.
  • Pursue aggressive joint and coalition military operations to crush and destroy ISIS, international cooperation to cutoff their funding, expand intelligence sharing, and cyberwarfare to disrupt and disable their propaganda and recruiting.
  • Defeat the ideology of radical Islamic terrorism just as we won the Cold War.
  • Establish new screening procedures and enforce our immigration laws to keep terrorists out of the United States.
  • Suspend, on a temporary basis, immigration from some of the most dangerous and volatile regions of the world that have a history of exporting terrorism.
  • Establish a Commission on Radical Islam to identify and explain to the American public the core convictions and beliefs of Radical Islam, to identify the warning signs of radicalization, and to expose the networks in our society that support radicalization.
Read Donald J. Trump’s Detailed Plan to Defeat ISIS, here.

KEY ISSUES
  • ISIS is responsible for the deaths of more than 1,000 people outside of Iraq and Syria. [The New York Times, July 16, 2016]
  • In 2014, ISIS was operating in some seven nations. Today they are fully operational in 18 countries with aspiring branches in six more regions, for a total of 24 branches. [NBC News, Aug. 8, 2016]
  • Iran, the world’s largest state sponsor of terrorism, is now flush with $150 billion in cash released by the United States – plus another $400 million in ransom. [The Wall Street Journal, Aug. 3, 2016]
CONTRAST WITH HILLARY CLINTON
  • Before the Obama-Clinton Administration took over: Libya was stable, Syria was under control, Egypt was ruled by a secular president and an ally of the United States, Iraq was experiencing a reduction in violence, the group that would become what we now call ISIS was close to being extinguished, and Iran was being choked off by economic sanctions.
    • Fast-forward to today: Libya is in ruins, our ambassador and three other brave Americans are dead, ISIS has gained a new base of operations, Syria is in the midst of a disastrous civil war, ISIS controls large portions of territory, a refugee crisis now threatens Europe and the United States, terrorists have gained a foothold in the Sinai desert, Iraq is in chaos, and ISIS is on the loose. ISIS has spread across the Middle East, and into the West.
  • The Obama-Clinton election-driven timetable for withdrawal from Iraq led directly to the rise of ISIS. [Donald J. Trump Press Release, July 28, 2016]
  • Secretary Hillary Clinton’s forceful advocacy for the intervention in Libya to build a Democracy is regarded as President Obama’s worst mistake. In addition, under Secretary Clinton, regime change in Syria and the overthrowing of Mubarak in Egypt destabilized the world. [Donald J. Trump Press Release, July 28, 2016]
  • Hillary Clinton’s State Department admitted five refugees and one translator who were later charged with terrorism and related crimes. [Donald J. Trump Press Release, Aug. 15, 2016]
Click to expand...
So what? Our fake unemployment is low, who cares what kind of clusterfuck the rest of the world is? Hell, our unemployment is so low we can import millions of Syrians right to Flint or Detroit and still need more.

What kind of President doesn't want regime change and nation building all over the world? We have to give them aid in dollars to keep people using our currency don't ya know.
 
MARIS61 said:
Clinton's message in the rally today is she will make us all installers.
Click to expand...
Solar installers? I swear I read a few years ago that China has most of the resources needed for recent state of the art solar panels. I could be 100 percent wrong on that, but it seems like that was it. Just googled it, couldn't find any articles to support my memory but did see a few articles about how they have the most modern and efficient plants today.
 
barfo said:
Also per previous post, please tell me about Trump's use of H1B visas, and whether that makes him a POS traitor.

barfo
Click to expand...

So you are against immigration, even temporary, quasi-legal immigration? That makes you a Trump supporter all the way.
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
Solar installers? I swear I read a few years ago that China has most of the resources needed for recent state of the art solar panels. I could be 100 percent wrong on that, but it seems like that was it. Just googled it, couldn't find any articles to support my memory but did see a few articles about how they have the most modern and efficient plants today.
Click to expand...


The Chinese have come up with a new panel that makes electricity from both sunshine and rain. That seems pretty impressive.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.tele...er-from-rain-could-solve-britains-energy/amp/
 
e_blazer said:
The Chinese have come up with a new panel that makes electricity from both sunshine and rain. That seems pretty impressive.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.tele...er-from-rain-could-solve-britains-energy/amp/
Click to expand...

I’m not sure how serious to take this article?

It states solar panels will produce 10 to 25% LESS on cloudy days. That is false.

Maybe they meant solar panels will only produce 10 to 25% on cloudy days compared to sunny days? And 25% is really stretching the range on cloudy days. Most solar panels only produce 10-15% of the capacity on cloudy days.
 
Talking about energy...do you realize how much energy can be stored by cars, trucks, buses, trains, airplanes, etc...in deep cycle batteries..you buy gas to travel somewhere and that motor can charge a lot of storage cells...the entire body of any transportation device could be a solar panel as well as every roof top on the planet or road or parking lot....we're collecting all this intensified solar energy and not using it everyday......duh..we waste energy..(nerd flash from a Prius owner)
 
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The Chinese just turned the Great wall of China into the longest cement sidewalk on the planet
 
barfo said:
No, Obama's not running again, but that's not relevant to my point.

There's no question that Hillary was for the war. She voted for it.

That's not the issue here. [It is a perfectly legitimate issue, it just doesn't happen to be the one we were discussing]

The issue we were discussing was whether Trump can legitimately claim to have been anti-war, when all he said was 'maybe, I dunno'.

barfo
Click to expand...

In addition to that already being debunked with the Cavuto Jan 2003 interview before the war started, here is Trump shortly after the war started.

Esquire magazine interview August 2004

Here is the quote in full:

"Look at the war in Iraq and the mess that we're in. I would never have handled it that way. Does anybody really believe that Iraq is going to be a wonderful democracy where people are going to run down to the voting box and gently put in their ballot and the winner is happily going to step up to lead the country? C'mon.

Two minutes after we leave, there's going to be a revolution, and the meanest, toughest, smartest, most vicious guy will take over. And he'll have weapons of mass destruction, which Saddam didn't have.

"What was the purpose of this whole thing? Hundreds and hundreds of young people killed. And what about the people coming back with no arms and legs? Not to mention the other side. All those Iraqi kids who've been blown to
pieces. And it turns out that all of the reasons for the war were blatantly wrong. All this for nothing."
 
Denny Crane said:
H2B visas. They're legal. Who approved them?

Backfire much?
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem with people coming to the country on any sort of visa, myself, so I'm not sure what your point is here.

Maris expressed that someone hiring someone on an H1B was a "POS traitor", so I want him to acknowledge that Trump is a POS traitor.

barfo
 
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