OT 2016 AD, United States 476 AD?

[TorturedBlazerFan]

476 AD the vandals invaded and deposed of Romes Emperor Romulus Augustulus. The Roman empire lingered but never again did a Roman Emperor reign from Italy and most historians see that as the year Rome fell, even though it still existed for years technically.

I have often wondered if historians will see the 2016 election, both the build up and fall out as the end, or “start of the end” of the United States.

If you do any studying Rome you will quickly find its similarities with the US currents position. Constant Wars and overspending, plus taxes that lined the pockets of the already wealthy while making the poor, poorer. Massive military spending to govern such a large land mass. Government corruption everywhere, did you know that at one point the Guards whose Jobs it was to protect the emperor at one point auctioned off the job to the highest bidder and killed the current emperor?

So I pose this as a question, do you guys believe in a decade or so itll be smoothed over and this will just be a rough patch for the United States or is this nation on its way to falling?

As someone who loves history I find the rise and falls of nations incredibly interesting.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

No.

Bailing out the banks and FED policies will be seen as the start of the end of the United States. Foolish monetary policy, combined with China building infrastructure all over the world to take over. China is already looking 100 years into the future, while the US is worried about what's happening tomorrow. I mean the wall is just the epitomy of stupidity. Just fucking build it, China wouldn't have blinked to build that shit. US is being too lame about it.

Trump is a small blip in the grand scheme of things.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

No.

Bailing out the banks and FED policies will be seen as the start of the end of the United States. Foolish monetary policy, combined with China building infrastructure all over the world to take over. China is already looking 100 years into the future, while the US is worried about what's happening tomorrow. I mean the wall is just the epitome of stupidity. Just fucking build it, China wouldn't have blinked to build that shit. US is being too lame about it.

Trump is a small blip in the grand scheme of things.

This wasn't about "Trump" per se, but in 2016 we had one of the most corrupt elections in the history of our nation, with Bernie and DNC, Trump and his fear mongering. The Chinese, the Russians, all the fall out that came from it, spreads far beyond Trump.
At this point, it's pretty obvious that even at the highest levels our "protectors" are not protecting us. FBI agents, CIA, Heck even police officers are all going down.
I hope that this is just a "rough patch" for us and that there are greener days ahead.

Just seems like the US is at a very interesting crossroad, and I don't believe we have the right leadership (right now) to steer us in the right direction, will we get the right people place is the question to me.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

This wasn't about "Trump" per se, but in 2016 we had one of the most corrupt elections in the history of our nation, with Bernie and DNC, Trump and his fear mongering. The Chinese, the Russians, all the fall out that came from it, spreads far beyond Trump.
At this point, it's pretty obvious that even at the highest levels our "protectors" are not protecting us. FBI agents, CIA, Heck even police officers are all going down.
I hope that this is just a "rough patch" for us and that there are greener days ahead.

Just seems like the US is at a very interesting crossroad, and I don't believe we have the right leadership (right now) to steer us in the right direction, will we get the right people place is the question to me.

Is it really that different from the Hanging Chads in the 2000 election? I don't think in the grand scheme, this "corrupt" election is going to matter that much.

The CIA and FBI have always been evil. From fabricating information to justify wars, assassinating world leaders, and influencing elections. This is nothing new.

Its better to look from the persepective that the United States IS the bad guy of the world.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Is it really that different from the Hanging Chads in the 2000 election? I don't think in the grand scheme, this "corrupt" election is going to matter that much.

The CIA and FBI have always been evil. From fabricating information to justify wars, assassinating world leaders, and influencing elections. This is nothing new.

Its better to look from the persepective that the United States IS the bad guy of the world.

Never once declared they were the good guy. Just as no one declares the Romans were. This isn't about evil vs good. This is about if the United States is falling as a nation, or if this will be smoothed over and make the nation stronger.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Never once declared they were the good guy. Just as no one declares the Romans were. This isn't about evil vs good. This is about if the United States is falling as a nation, or if this will be smoothed over and make the nation stronger.

The US has been failing for the past 20 years. We have become weak as a nation. The will of the people is weak. Too much internal strife to do anything. Too spoiled, too many stupid people in the US now. People arguing over bullshit all day. Lazy, entitled population. People will start becoming obsolete with more automation. Then what, a Universal Basic Income? That will end up all kinds of fucked.


When people were talking about the "Pussification of America", we are seeing it on display right now. On the path its on now, its going to be a total shithole in the future. Rich, poor and a small middle class.

We owe a lot of money, we'll never pay back.
Pay too much in entitlements.
China and other countries are manufacturing hubs. They don't care about unions and benefits and will take over the world.

The only way the US comes back is if it gets into a massive economic depression again and recovers. There is no "smoothing over" on the path we are on.

Summary: Thanos was right.

 

[barfo]

I don't think in the grand scheme, this "corrupt" election is going to matter that much.

2016 election was not "corrupt". If we are going to be historians, we need to get the lingo correct.

The 2016 election was "rigged". Just the beginning of a downward cycle:

2020 election "was stole"

2024 election "done been took"

2028 election "gone"

2032 election "ele-whut?"

2036 election "Urrrgh!"

barfo

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Personally, I believe America started down the unstoppable slope with the assassinations of the ‘60’s, coupled with the Vietnam War. Americans began to quit trusting the government and the bullshit it had been peddling almost from the beginning of independence. And rather than try to regain the public’s trust, the politicians/parasites who make up our “government” have since done their best to marginalize the cynics and to pander to the collective ignorance by gutting our educational systems and selling justice to the highest bidder. Why take the high road when the low road is easier and pays better? And too, a great deal of what @EL PRESIDENTE said also........

 

[barfo]

Personally, I believe America started down the unstoppable slope with the assassinations of the ‘60’s, coupled with the Vietnam War. Americans began to quit trusting the government and the bullshit it had been peddling almost from the beginning of independence. And rather than try to regain the public’s trust, the politicians/parasites who make up our “government” have since done their best to marginalize the cynics and to pander to the collective ignorance by gutting our educational systems and selling justice to the highest bidder. Why take the high road when the low road is easier and pays better? And too, a great deal of what @EL PRESIDENTE said also........

sounds to me like you think the country was fatally flawed from the start, not from the 60s.

Is there some organization that you think works better, or do you just think humans are hopeless?

barfo

 

[barfo]

The only way the US comes back is if it gets into a massive economic depression again and recovers. There is no "smoothing over" on the path we are on.

I think you should lead by example. Set fire to your house and car, and show us how you are better off after the fires.

barfo

 

[Hoopguru]

No.

Bailing out the banks and FED policies will be seen as the start of the end of the United States. Foolish monetary policy, combined with China building infrastructure all over the world to take over. China is already looking 100 years into the future, while the US is worried about what's happening tomorrow. I mean the wall is just the epitomy of stupidity. Just fucking build it, China wouldn't have blinked to build that shit. US is being too lame about it.

Trump is a small blip in the grand scheme of things.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. There are institutions and individuals that want to keep the status quo and privilege that the old order (both parties) has bestowed on them through lobbyist and political power. Basically, they want to govern and control everything even at the cost of division and anti growth in certain important areas.

 

[Hoopguru]

This wasn't about "Trump" per se, but in 2016 we had one of the most corrupt elections in the history of our nation, with Bernie and DNC, Trump and his fear mongering. The Chinese, the Russians, all the fall out that came from it, spreads far beyond Trump.
At this point, it's pretty obvious that even at the highest levels our "protectors" are not protecting us. FBI agents, CIA, Heck even police officers are all going down.
I hope that this is just a "rough patch" for us and that there are greener days ahead.

Just seems like the US is at a very interesting crossroad, and I don't believe we have the right leadership (right now) to steer us in the right direction, will we get the right people place is the question to me.[/QUOTE Identity politics has poisoned the pond. Its divide and conquer now with a win at all cost with no more debate or compromise. The political identity politics with the media/and social media looking for ratings or clicks through creating frenzy and hate is now the norm. Its sad because when you look at the fabric of our democracy its the ability to accept different ideas and respect each other views.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

sounds to me like you think the country was fatally flawed from the start, not from the 60s.

Is there some organization that you think works better, or do you just think humans are hopeless?

barfo

“Fatally flawed” are your words, not mine. But I will certainly agree that this country (like every country) is flawed and always has been. We just never wanted to own up to it until it became too obvious to ignore. When leaders who try to effect positive change are gunned down, and kids with no positions or connections are continually sent to die in rich white men’s wars that have no real purpose, even an idiot would have to admit that that is pretty fucked up. And that awareness came when our educational systems were far better than they are now and higher education was far more affordable than it is now. Hence the (what I believe to be) purposeful degradation of the American educational system. It’s tough to con people who have been taught to know better.......

As far as some other “organization” goes, I do happen to think the Scandinavian countries, Canada and New Zealand all seem to have their shit together much better than the present USA.

And yes, I DO think humans in general are pretty much hopeless........

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

“Fatally flawed” are your words, not mine. But I will certainly agree that this country (like every country) is flawed and always has been. We just never wanted to own up to it until it became too obvious to ignore. When leaders who try to effect positive change are gunned down, and kids with no positions or connections are continually sent to die in rich white men’s wars that have no real purpose, even an idiot would have to admit that that is pretty fucked up. And that awareness came when our educational systems were far better than they are now and higher education was far more affordable than it is now. Hence the (what I believe to be) purposeful degradation of the American educational system. It’s tough to con people who have been taught to know better.......

As far as some other “organization” goes, I do happen to think the Scandinavian countries, Canada and New Zealand all seem to have their shit together much better than the present USA.

And yes, I DO think humans in general are pretty much hopeless........

So, countries with 90%+ white populations have their shit together?

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

So, countries with 90%+ white populations have their shit together?

If those countries have better education systems, then yes.....but I don’t really believe (nor do I think you do either) that race really has anything to do with the type of “socialism” in those countries. Actual citizens of those countries reap the same benefits regardless of race. I think you’re tossing out a red herring that has no place in this topic......

 

[riverman]

So, countries with 90%+ white populations have their shit together?

Genghis Khan is family dude....we're probably cousins...that or the primordial muck one celled booger that crawled out of the ocean and started free enterprise

 

[riverman]

I think you’re tossing out a red herring that has no place in this topic......

It's el prez..he's just watching the world burn...

 

[Lanny]

Personally, I believe America started down the unstoppable slope with the assassinations of the ‘60’s, coupled with the Vietnam War. Americans began to quit trusting the government and the bullshit it had been peddling almost from the beginning of independence. And rather than try to regain the public’s trust, the politicians/parasites who make up our “government” have since done their best to marginalize the cynics and to pander to the collective ignorance by gutting our educational systems and selling justice to the highest bidder. Why take the high road when the low road is easier and pays better? And too, a great deal of what @EL PRESIDENTE said also........

Can someone please elucidate me on which people we supposedly assassinated?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Can someone please elucidate me on which people we supposedly assassinated?

I took that to be Kennedy, and there were assassination attempts on Reagan and Nixon in the 70's.

 

[Lanny]

I took that to be Kennedy, and there were assassination attempts on Reagan and Nixon in the 70's.

There is no evidence of those alleged assassination attempts. The Kennedy assassination has been explored in great depth with physics involved. The Reagan attempt was proven conclusively to be the work of a John Hinkley Jr.
I know of no attempt on Nixon's life.
I'd say you'd have to fall for a pretty far fetched cabal scheme to believe those assassination attempts and assassination were the work of anyone other than what they were.
If you want to look at government assassinations, I'd say look to Russia.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

this is from Wikipedia, now I know that isn't the best source ever but I just got to work and am working so I don't have a lot of time to research it.

Richard Nixon[edit]

• April 13, 1972: Arthur Bremer carried a firearm to an event intending to shoot Nixon, but was put off by strong security. A few weeks later, he instead shot and seriously injured the Governor of Alabama, George Wallace, who was paralyzed for the rest of his life until his death in 1998. Three other people were unintentionally wounded. Bremer served 35 years in prison for the shooting of Governor Wallace.[52]
• February 22, 1974: Samuel Byck planned to kill Nixon by crashing a commercial airliner into the White House.[53] He hijacked the planeon the ground by force after killing a police officer, and was told that it could not take off with the wheel blocks still in place. After he shot both pilots (one later died), an officer named Charles 'Butch' Troyer shot Byck through the plane's door window. He survived long enough to kill himself by shooting.

 

[trailblazer18]

I got my 10-year Chinese visa and future home there, just in case all this downfall talk is true and I need to dip out

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

There is no evidence of those alleged assassination attempts. The Kennedy assassination has been explored in great depth with physics involved. The Reagan attempt was proven conclusively to be the work of a John Hinkley Jr.
I know of no attempt on Nixon's life.
I'd say you'd have to fall for a pretty far fetched cabal scheme to believe those assassination attempts and assassination were the work of anyone other than what they were.
If you want to look at government assassinations, I'd say look to Russia.

Hold the phone, okay? Jeezus, please don’t put words in my mouth. I NEVER said (or implied) that “we” assassinated anyone for cryin’ out loud (though I certainly think the possibility exists that certain elements of the American government might have had a hand in one or all of them. But that’s just my opinion). My point was that 3 leaders (JFK, RFK and MLK Jr.) tried to lead this country in what can easily be described as a better direction and all were gunned down before they could accomplish their goals. How demoralizing is that for a country in general and a generation in particular? It seemed to me (as a participant) that we were finally finding our moral compass (for lack of a better term) only to be kicked in the nuts and scattered to the winds while our government went on with business as usual. And it’s been downhill ever since.

Again, just one man’s opinion..........

 

[Lanny]

this is from Wikipedia, now I know that isn't the best source ever but I just got to work and am working so I don't have a lot of time to research it.

Richard Nixon[edit]

• April 13, 1972: Arthur Bremer carried a firearm to an event intending to shoot Nixon, but was put off by strong security. A few weeks later, he instead shot and seriously injured the Governor of Alabama, George Wallace, who was paralyzed for the rest of his life until his death in 1998. Three other people were unintentionally wounded. Bremer served 35 years in prison for the shooting of Governor Wallace.[52]
• February 22, 1974: Samuel Byck planned to kill Nixon by crashing a commercial airliner into the White House.[53] He hijacked the planeon the ground by force after killing a police officer, and was told that it could not take off with the wheel blocks still in place. After he shot both pilots (one later died), an officer named Charles 'Butch' Troyer shot Byck through the plane's door window. He survived long enough to kill himself by shooting.

Wikipedia is very seldom mistaken. Anyone noting an error is free to challenge the error and when verified gets the error corrected. It works well.

Edit: Where does it say these people were directed by any unseen governmental forces?

 

[Lanny]

Hold the phone, okay? Jeezus, please don’t put words in my mouth. I NEVER said (or implied) that “we” assassinated anyone for cryin’ out loud (though I certainly think the possibility exists that certain elements of the American government might have had a hand in one or all of them. But that’s just my opinion). My point was that 3 leaders (JFK, RFK and MLK Jr.) tried to lead this country in what can easily be described as a better direction and all were gunned down before they could accomplish their goals. How demoralizing is that for a country in general and a generation in particular? It seemed to me (as a participant) that we were finally finding our moral compass (for lack of a better term) only to be kicked in the nuts and scattered to the winds while our government went on with business as usual. And it’s been downhill ever since.

Again, just one man’s opinion..........

Let me quote what you said "I believe America started down the unstoppable slope with the assassinations of the ‘60’s, . . ." I believe the word assassination is in there someplace. Those are words from your mouth, aren't they?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Wikipedia is very seldom mistaken. Anyone noting an error is free to challenge the error and when verified gets the error corrected. It works well.

Edit: Where does it say these people were directed by any unseen governmental forces?

I thought your comment was about if those guys had assasination attempts, I wasnt implying it was a government conspiracy.

 

[Chris Craig]

sounds to me like you think the country was fatally flawed from the start, not from the 60s.

Is there some organization that you think works better, or do you just think humans are hopeless?

barfo

People are the same everywhere

 

[Chris Craig]

There is no evidence of those alleged assassination attempts. The Kennedy assassination has been explored in great depth with physics involved. The Reagan attempt was proven conclusively to be the work of a John Hinkley Jr.
I know of no attempt on Nixon's life.
I'd say you'd have to fall for a pretty far fetched cabal scheme to believe those assassination attempts and assassination were the work of anyone other than what they were.
If you want to look at government assassinations, I'd say look to Russia.

Lanny, Kennedy was assasinated as part of a vast conspiracy, the House Select Committee on Assasinations conceded as much in 1979. Magic Bullet my ass. You look at the Zapruder film and you see all you need to see to know. There was more than one shooter.

 

[Chris Craig]

I took that to be Kennedy, and there were assassination attempts on Reagan and Nixon in the 70's.

You mean Ford instead of Nixon?

 

[Lanny]

Lanny, Kennedy was assasinated as part of a vast conspiracy, the House Select Committee on Assasinations conceded as much in 1979. Magic Bullet my ass. You look at the Zapruder film and you see all you need to see to know. There was more than one shooter.

So sad.