Game Thread 2022-23 Game #24 - BLAZERS VS PACERS - DECEMBER 4, 2022 - SUNDAY - 6:00 PM (PDT) ROOT

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Danimal1979 said:
Haha. I'm not talking sh*t. Like I said, I'm pretty pessimistic. But Aldo makes me look like a positive person. I didn't think anyone had that ability. Too funny.
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Dude wow. You make me sound like a lunatic. I hold my team to a standard that’s excellence. I want a ring ok. I wouldn’t complain if we were a great team
 
SIeepwalker said:
Just watched Nurk drop 19/6/4 on 58% from the field and 66% from three, then I come to the game thread and the first thing I see is Nurk slander.

Make it make sense.
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Nurk didn't have a bad game by Nurk standards but a guy his size should not have his field goal percentage lowered by his paint attempts. A lot of fans just get sick of Nurk not finishing strong and that doesn't always mean dunking. He just needs to go up off of two feet and put the ball in the basket. He also had several instances where his lack of mobility on defense was a liability that lead to open shots that Indy hit.

I think Nurk is playing really well this season but the more I see him play in this system the more I'm convinced that he would be better defensively on another team. Offensively I have no fucking clue what keeps the guy from finishing strong and I'm not talking about a slashing one handed dunk but just planting his feet in the paint and going up strong with a layup or dunk instead of an underhanded flip shot or a weird hook when the guy has the size to get position and just finish strong.

All of that said, if there isn't value out there for Nurk, I'll be happy to have him. The guy is a great dude and he has a ton of talent and skills that contribute to wins. If we do keep Nurk I would love to see us pick up a mobile big that's over 6'9" for a lot of match ups.
 
Haakzilla said:
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BTW, I have honed in with my opinion of Payton interacting with other Blazers on the bench. They do not freeze him out, just most ignore him because he is a constant chatterbox and they are trying to either relax or focused on the game. Although it appears Grant likes to interact with him.
 
SIeepwalker said:
Just watched Nurk drop 19/6/4 on 58% from the field and 66% from three, then I come to the game thread and the first thing I see is Nurk slander.

Make it make sense.
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He's averaging 14.5/10/3 on 51% FG, 43% from 3, and 70% from the line with decent defensive metrics.

If people continually keep complaining about Nurkic, they need to check their expectations for a guy who is currently the 94th highest paid player in the league.
 
Nurk played 40 min the night before. For guy his size/body type he did really well last night. I agree: with Dame the team play looks sooo different. The first few offensive possessions looked weird actually.
 
what im most happy about is that we had balanced shooting in the starting line-up, as it should be, considering that everyone can score in their own ways

hopefully we keep playing like that and we have less games when dame & ant/grant have -/+ 20 shots per game

if someone gets hot, then thats other story, keep going to that someone until he stops making shots
 
illmatic99 said:
He's averaging 14.5/10/3 on 51% FG, 43% from 3, and 70% from the line with decent defensive metrics.

If people continually keep complaining about Nurkic, they need to check their expectations for a guy who is currently the 94th highest paid player in the league.
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That means he's paid like a 3rd or 4th option, which is about what he is on an average-to-good basis. So, from that perspective, I think some of the critique is warranted, just not on the above average nights. It's not like Nurk's on a Nassir contract where nothing is expected of him...so who cares if he's invisible.
 
handiman said:
That means he's paid like a 3rd or 4th option, which is about what he is on an average-to-good basis. So, from that perspective, I think some of the critique is warranted, just not on the above average nights. It's not like Nurk's on a Nassir contract where nothing is expected of him...so who cares if he's invisible.
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Here are salaries for starting centers this yr:

Gobert - 38
Davis - 38
KAT -34
Embiid - 34
Jokic - 33
Ayton - 31
Horford - 27
Vucevic - 22
Allen - 20
Capela - 18
Turner - 18
Adams - 18
Mitchell Robinson - 17
Nurkic - 15.6
Valanciunas - 14.7
Carter Jr. - 14
BroLo - 14

Nurk is neither overpaid nor underpaid. So I agree that his salary is commensurate with production. There are constantly posts on here complaining about his deal. Makes very little sense to me.

Are we certain he's not the 14th best center in the league?
 
illmatic99 said:
Here are salaries for starting centers this yr:

Gobert - 38
Davis - 38
KAT -34
Embiid - 34
Jokic - 33
Ayton - 31
Horford - 27
Vucevic - 22
Allen - 20
Capela - 18
Turner - 18
Adams - 18
Mitchell Robinson - 17
Nurkic - 15.6
Valanciunas - 14.7
Carter Jr. - 14
BroLo - 14

Nurk is neither overpaid nor underpaid.
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with Nurkic, the biggest factor is availability. In the previous 3 seasons he missed 127 games. Over his career he's averaged 51 games/year. 15.6M for a 75 game C with Nurkic's impact is probably fine. For a 50 game C, it's probably not
 
wizenheimer said:
with Nurkic, the biggest factor is availability. In the previous 3 seasons he missed 127 games. Over his career he's averaged 51 games/year. 15.6M for a 75 game C with Nurkic's impact is probably fine. For a 50 game C, it's probably not
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Lets not bring this up? Why on earth are you testing the injury gods talking about a Blazer Center and "Availability".
My God Man. Get ahold of yourself!
 
wizenheimer said:
with Nurkic, the biggest factor is availability. In the previous 3 seasons he missed 127 games. Over his career he's averaged 51 games/year. 15.6M for a 75 game C with Nurkic's impact is probably fine. For a 50 game C, it's probably not
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That's true of many centers, though. Here are a few I picked from the salary list (above Nurk), which I figured would have comparable availability the past three years:

Adams - 197 games played
Capela - 176
Davis - 138
Embiid - 170
BLopez - 151

That's ~15 games/year more than Nurk, not all that much more than a guy derided for availability.
 
speaking of time nurk missed due to injuries, its important to use context

2016/2017 (played 20 games after he got traded to portland, then suffered non-displaced leg fracture due to which he missed, if i remember correctly, 10-20 games and then the playoffs in which he actually played, but wasnt able to continue)
2017/2018 (played 79 games + entire playoffs)
2018/2019 (played 72 games then suffered compound leg fractures and missed 16 months, but it would have been a year of absence without covid outbreak and nba being shut down)
2019/2020 (played 8 games in the bubble + entire playoffs and i remember nurk was set to come back a day or two before the nba was shut down due to covid and i still regret we didnt get to see moda center go berserk for nurks comeback)
2020/2021 (played 37 games + entire playoffs, suffered wrist fracture after 10 games or so, due to which he missed three monts)
2021/2022 (played 56 games, then got shut down cause he was playing really good and was hurting the tank)

during his tenure in portland, nurk has had three fractures (two leg & one hand fracture) and these are not common injuries, its literally a bad luck that can happen to anyone
 
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handiman said:
That's true of many centers, though. Here are a few I picked from the salary list (above Nurk), which I figured would have comparable availability the past three years:

Adams - 197 games played
Capela - 176
Davis - 138
Embiid - 170
BLopez - 151

That's ~15 games/year more than Nurk, not all that much more than a guy derided for availability.
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ok then. Since we're doing games played over that 3 years, using your list:

Adams - 197 games played
Capela - 176
Davis - 138
Embiid - 170
BLopez - 151
Nurkic - 101

32 more games/year for Adams; 25 more for Capela; 12 more for AD; 23 for Embiid; 17 more for Lopez

39 more games/year for Jokic; 19 more for Ayton; 19 more for Horford; 33 more for Vucevic; 33 more for Jarret Allen; 34 more/year for Valuciunas; 21 more for Robinson; 19 more for Carter; 17 more for Myles Turner. Also, 40 more games/year for Ivica Zubac; 34 more for Poeltl; 28 more for Sabonis; 26 more for Dwight Powell; 35 more for Gobert; 30 more for Adebayo; 30 more for Mason Plumlee

again, those are all games-played/year numbers. I imagine there might have been a more injured big from 2019-2022....I just can't find one

to be fair to Nurkic, those last 3 seasons are by far his worst in terms of availability. From 2016-2019 he played in 216 games in 3 seasons. That's 72 games/year. But the 2 seasons prior to that he missed 70 games.

Anthony Davis is considered to be made of glass...an injury waiting to happen. He's averaged 6o games played a year. Nurkic has averaged 51. I hope Nurkic plays 75 games this year. But I sure wasn't stretching the point talking about availability having an impact of his value
 
I don't see the point of using Nurk's injury history to deem anything. Almost all of his issues have been acute and idiosyncratic in nature. It's not like his injuries have been chronic.

Did he miss time in the past because of serious injuries? yes; undoubtedly.

Does that mean he will continue to miss time because of another injury?I don't see the causation/correlation.
 
wizenheimer said:
with Nurkic, the biggest factor is availability. In the previous 3 seasons he missed 127 games. Over his career he's averaged 51 games/year. 15.6M for a 75 game C with Nurkic's impact is probably fine. For a 50 game C, it's probably not
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didn't we sit him last year to tank? are we really gonna say that he was actually hurt last year?
 
illmatic99 said:
didn't we sit him last year to tank? are we really gonna say that he was actually hurt last year?
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IIRC, sometime in February he landed funny and sprained his ankle and would be 're-evaluated' in 10 days. A couple of weeks later the team said he had plantar-faciitis (IIRC), which can be pretty debilitating. But, if you want, you can add 6 or 7 games a year to his total and deduct the same from the differentials. That does not change the picture much though

he missed 26 games last season; 3 were early, then the last 23 of the year
 
@wizenheimer

you need to realize that nurk missed 92 consecutive games after the leg compound fractures (10 regular season + 16 playoffs the same season he suffered injury + 66 regular season games following season), then he missed 32 consecutive games following season after the wrist fracture, thats why context matters and you make it look like nurk missed these 124 games with various injuries over the last three seasons that make him injury prone
 
Mr. Robot said:
@wizenheimer

you need to realize that nurk missed 92 consecutive games after the leg compound fractures (10 regular season + 16 playoffs the same season he suffered injury + 66 regular season games following season), then he missed 32 consecutive games following season after the wrist fracture, thats why context matters and you make it look like nurk missed these 124 games with various injuries over the last three seasons that make him injury prone
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yes...and I mentioned that by pointing to his 2016-19 stretch of good health when he averaged 72 games/year. 216 games played in a 3 year stretch is really good for a guy Nurk's size not named Wilt or Dwight Howard. Unfortunately the other 5 seasons he averaged 43 games played.

the very first time I said his new 4 year deal was too much I qualified it by saying if Nurkic could actually average 68-72 games a year the deal would be fine. I like a lot of things about Nurk's game especially his rebounding and defensive presence in the paint. He's not a great rim protector but he can challenge shots and make them more difficult. He sets some good screens too and actually has good court vision and makes some nice passes. he makes some sloppy passes too but he sure isn't alone on the Blazers in that. He's even developed a 3-pt shot

He's not good at all defending the perimeter. But what bothers me the most is his impatience at the rim and all the weak hopeless shots he throws up down there. And obviously what worries me is his health because if the Blazers are left with Eubanks and Butler at C...yikes!
 
wizenheimer said:
yes...and I mentioned that by pointing to his 2016-19 stretch of good health when he averaged 72 games/year. 216 games played in a 3 year stretch is really good for a guy Nurk's size not named Wilt or Dwight Howard. Unfortunately the other 5 seasons he averaged 43 games played.

the very first time I said his new 4 year deal was too much I qualified it by saying if Nurkic could actually average 68-72 games a year the deal would be fine. I like a lot of things about Nurk's game especially his rebounding and defensive presence in the paint. He's not a great rim protector but he can challenge shots and make them more difficult. He sets some good screens too and actually has good court vision and makes some nice passes. he makes some sloppy passes too but he sure isn't alone on the Blazers in that. He's even developed a 3-pt shot

He's not good at all defending the perimeter. But what bothers me the most is his impatience at the rim and all the weak hopeless shots he throws up down there. And obviously what worries me is his health because if the Blazers are left with Eubanks and Butler at C...yikes!
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Badji too. Plus, Winslow has been effective as center.
 
Man!
You guys just won't let up.
When Nurk goes down it will be all of you that will be at fault!
One simply does not tempt the injury god like this!
 
Fairly-Hard said:
Man!
You guys just won't let up.
When Nurk goes down it will be all of you that will be at fault!
One simply does not tempt the injury god like this!
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the temptation isn't us jabbering about it

it's the Blazers signing any guy over 6'8
 
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