Game Thread 2023-24 GAME #53 - BLAZERS VS WOLVES - FEBRUARY 13, 2024 - TUESDAY - 7:00 PM PST - ROOT

[Tince]

 

[wizenheimer]

As anticipated, I watch all of his made field goals and I would assign Simons responsibility for 3.33 of Edwards' 16 made field goals. Meaning 79% of Edwards field goals were scored on 7 different Blazer defenders outside of Simons.

I know you're an Ant fan, and I don't know how the Ant vs Ant debate started, and don't really care, but the Simons played terrible defense tonight, as he has done for most games this season and in his career

 

[B-Roy]

sure but he's been better this season than the sieve he was this game.

Lots of half efforts where he gets switched and then just gives up. Wasn't doing that earlier this season.

The effort is always there with Scoot and Brogdon. Even outmatched, effort will get stops. But Ant has just been giving up on defense a bit too much for my liking.

 

[Tince]

I know you're an Ant fan, and I don't know how the Ant vs Ant debate started, and don't really care, but the Blazer's Ant played terrible defense tonight, as he has done for most games this season and in his career

I'm a fan of everyone on the team. Ant's defense was not good tonight. That can also be said about a majority of the players who got minutes. This team has been poor defensively when Ant has sat out games as well. Anyone who implied Simons was the reason for Edwards going off tonight, in this game thread, is not being objective. Just because Ant has been a poor defender for his career, doesn't mean we should now over-exaggerate the responsibility he has for an opposing player having a good night.

I'm someone who really wants Scoot to be the man for this franchise down the road, but it appears to me that some people want Scoot to succeed so badly that they are attempting to discredit Simons as a way to artificially prop up Scoot and/or justify why he should have an even higher usage rate.

I don't think my breakdown, with video evidence, should bother anyone who wants to be objective about the team and their players. The results were the results, I'm indifferent to who it favors, I just want the narratives to be supported by the facts.

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm a fan of everyone on the team. Ant's defense was not good tonight. That can also be said about a majority of the players who got minutes. This team has been poor defensively when Ant has sat out games as well. Anyone who implied Simons was the reason for Edwards going off tonight, in this game thread, is not being objective. Just because Ant has been a poor defender for his career, doesn't mean we should now over-exaggerate the responsibility he has for an opposing player having a good night.

I'm someone who really wants Scoot to be the man for this franchise down the road, but it appears to me that some people want Scoot to succeed so badly that they are attempting to discredit Simons as a way to artificially prop up Scoot and/or justify why he should have an even higher usage rate.

I don't think my breakdown, with video evidence, should bother anyone who wants to be objective about the team and their players.

as I said, I don't know how the Ant vs Ant argument started and don't really care; it's a weird tangent

it's pretty clear, at least it's clear to me, that Ant is the worst defender in the rotation. That matches the eye test and it certainly matches the stats

 

[Tince]

as I said, I don't know how the Ant vs Ant argument started and don't really care; it's a weird tangent

it's pretty clear, at least it's clear to me, that Ant is the worst defender in the rotation. That matches the eye test and it certainly matches the stats

Well, you responded to a post about it, so you're kinda in it now!

I have no objections to anyone who says Ant is a minus defender. I haven't looked into the claim the Ant is the worst defender in the rotation, but if that is the case, I'm fully ok with that being the result. I would be a little surprised if Ant was the worst defender by a wide margin, given we appear to have a bunch of not so great defenders.

 

[OneSport3]

I know you're an Ant fan, and I don't know how the Ant vs Ant debate started, and don't really care, but the Simons played terrible defense tonight, as he has done for most games this season and in his career

Funny that you decided to interject when you admitted you didn’t know how the debate started (and didn’t care), when how the debate started is pertinent to this conversation.

The debate started when a poster said that Minnesota was constantly hunting Ant to switch on Edwards to exploit the matchup and that Ant was getting cooked. That was simply not the case. Ant switched onto Edwards twice in the 1st half and Edwards scored 2 points on one of those switches.

No one was arguing that Ant was a good defender.

 

[Tince]

Funny that you decided to interject when you admitted you didn’t know how the debate started (and didn’t care), when how the debate started is pertinent to this conversation.

The debate started when a poster said that Minnesota was constantly hunting Ant to switch on Edwards to exploit the matchup and that Ant was getting cooked. That was simply not the case. Ant switched onto Edwards twice in the 1st half and Edwards scored 2 points on one of those switches.

No one was arguing that Ant was a good defender.

Thank you. And I'm not trying to bash on Scoot or anyone else by pointing out that Edwards scored 79% of his fields goals against players other than Simons. Edwards is an awesome player, who had a great game, I tip my cap to him.

 

[wizenheimer]

Well, you responded to a post about it, so you're kinda in it now!

I have no objections to anyone who says Ant is a minus defender. I haven't looked into the claim the Ant is the worst defender in the rotation, but if that is the case, I'm fully ok with that being the result.

mostly, I responded to a video...write with a crayon too

 

[wizenheimer]

Funny that you decided to interject when you admitted you didn’t know how the debate started (and didn’t care), when how the debate started is pertinent to this conversation.

.

I participated in the discussion and changed it a little...that's allowed you know

 

[Tince]

mostly, I responded to a video...write with a crayon too

Understood. The video was in direct response to a specific claim made in the game thread, in which I responded with a prediction, that I felt deserved an objective look once the game was completed. I did not say Simons had a good defensive night or that he is a plus defensive player for his career, so your response felt a bit out of left field. Appreciate you clearing up the fact that you weren't attempting to move the goal posts after the video evidence disproved the original claim.

 

[Whyachi]

I thought the Blazers played well all things considered.

Portland looked like an NBA team for 40 minutes. Then a series of blunders, bricks, and flat footed defense for 5 straight minutes... allowed us the wonderful opportunity to watch a good Timberwolves team claw the Blazers face off and take a 20 point lead.

Dammit this team is choking, our guys had rest, practice and gameplans to at least make this game competitive.

The Blazers keep choking, it's worse then ordinary losses. The team choked games last year too, even with "better talent".

Losses = better draft pick

I'd rather watch the scrubs lose by 40, at least the kids would gain experience. We're watching good players embarass themselves in a hucky chucky system designed and executed by Coach Billups.

 

[wizenheimer]

Understood. The video was in direct response to a specific claim made in the game thread, in which I responded with a prediction, that I felt deserved an objective look once the game was completed. I did not say Simons had a good defensive night or that he is a plus defensive player for his career, so your response felt a bit out of left field. Appreciate you clearing up the fact that you weren't attempting to move the goal posts after the video evidence disproved the original claim.

I had just watched the game and saw Ant get beat repeatedly on defense; there was a discussion about Ant's defense in the game...didn't seem like left field but ok

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I had just watched the game and saw Ant get beat repeatedly on defense; there was a discussion about Ant's defense in the game...didn't seem like left field but ok

Someone around these parts keeps gaslighting us about Ant.

 

[blazerfan11]

Extremely exciting game being able to watch Jerami Grant play a team-high 35 minutes and shoot 5-17 and Simons shoot 6-19.

Someone (maybe it's a group effort) is trying hard to make me not want to watch the rest of the games this season.

Kris Murray played 4 minutes and Rayan Rupert was sent back to the G league.

Matisse Thybulle was 0-5. He started this game at guard. Some type of guard.

Thybulle seems not to have to worry about playing time, though for me it would be nice for Rupert to take all his minutes at this point of the season.

I know Thybulle does more than what we see in the box score, but there has to be some level to be expected isn't there, before a role player just gets benched?

 

[Tince]

Extremely exciting game being able to watch Jerami Grant play a team-high 35 minutes and shoot 5-17 and Simons shoot 6-19.

Someone (maybe it's a group effort) is trying hard to make me not want to watch the rest of the games this season.

Kris Murray played 4 minutes and Rayan Rupert was sent back to the G league.

Matisse Thybulle was 0-5. He started this game at guard. Some type of guard.

Thybulle seems not to have to worry about playing time, though for me it would be nice for Rupert to take all his minutes at this point of the season.

I know Thybulle does more than what we see in the box score, but there has to be some level to be expected isn't there, before a role player just gets benched?

View attachment 63025

The third segment this morning made me think of you.

 

[Tince]

Someone around these parts keeps gaslighting us about Ant.

Just providing facts.... which for certain agenda pushers, could be frustrating.

 

[Whyachi]

I had just watched the game and saw Ant get beat repeatedly on defense; there was a discussion about Ant's defense in the game...didn't seem like left field but ok

Anfernee was hiding in the camera well and jumping from the crime scene, as big Minnesota monsters ripped through the painted area.

There's threads and debates about Simons defensive flaws. He's an outstanding creative scorer, top class shooter, but a bit undersized and lightweight for the 2 position. Put Ant on a team at true PG with lanky defenders, things might look different.

Blazers drafted Scoot, can't go back in time. It's Small Ball City with the hope of landing more phenom rookies. In the meantime, I've been told to blame Lillard & McCollum for the Blazers bad defense. Even though those guys got traded to better teams.

 

[kjironman1]

after All-Star break, teams will play harder for playoff positioning. Add to list of excuses why Portland loses games.

I used that one already. been in my bag bro.

 

[kjironman1]

Camara would have played more if the refs didn't suck. They need to let Toumani smack people around... that's his job.

It's the accent. The Refs don't like waffles.

 

[SheedSoNasty]

It’ll never happen, but Ant would be perfect off the bench backing up Scoot and Sharpe. I hate these financially motivated coaching moves that hurt the team.

 

[illmatic99]

It’ll never happen, but Ant would be perfect off the bench backing up Scoot and Sharpe. I hate these financially motivated coaching moves that hurt the team.

i don't think Ant's salary has anything to do with why he starts. It's because he's currently our best player and draws the kinda gravity and defensive attention to allow for softer coverage against his teammates.

One of my goals this season was to see if Scoot/Ant/Sharpe can coexist. We can't truly answer this question for multiple reasons, unfortunately.

 

[MickZagger]

i don't think Ant's salary has anything to do with why he starts. It's because he's currently our best player and draws the kinda gravity and defensive attention to allow for softer coverage against his teammates.

One of my goals this season was to see if Scoot/Ant/Sharpe can coexist. We can't truly answer this question for multiple reasons, unfortunately.

I’ll answer it for you:

No.

Small 2 guards that can’t defend are a liability.

Our best bet is trading Simons to a team that values him as someone who can bolster their bench and bring instant offense.

 

[illmatic99]

Our best bet is trading Simons to a team that values him as someone who can bolster their bench and bring instant offense.

I think he's caught in a space where he is overqualified for that role, but not quite the star you can truly build around.

 

[wizenheimer]

Our best bet is trading Simons to a team that values him as someone who can bolster their bench and bring instant offense.

or to a team that has enough passing and play-making elsewhere in their starters to allow Ant to play the PG position. And likely to a team with enough length in their starters to off-set Ant's defense and size

that's what worked for CJ. The Pels' other 4 starters are 6'8 - 6'8 - 6'6 (Zion) - 6'11. Ingram & Zion are averaging more assists than CJ, yet the starting unit averages 20/game with CJ averaging less than 25% of starting assists and less than 18% of team assists (for comparison: last year Dame averaged 35% of the starter assists and 30% of team assists)

 

[Pinwheel1]

or to a team that has enough passing and play-making elsewhere in their starters to allow Ant to play the PG position. And likely to a team with enough length in their starters to off-set Ant's defense and size

that's what worked for CJ. The Pels' other 4 starters are 6'8 - 6'8 - 6'6 (Zion) - 6'11. Ingram & Zion are averaging more assists than CJ, yet the starting unit averages 20/game with CJ averaging less than 25% of starting assists and less than 18% of team assists (for comparison: last year Dame averaged 35% of the starter assists and 30% of team assists)

That would work, but not to re-hash this debate for the millionth time, it only helps us if we get a significant return for Ant.

Until he actually comes out and says he would refuse to come off the bench, I think it is ridiculous to assume he would pout in any way if he did. Moving forward (next year) we will need his shooting and we need the depth coming off the bench

 

[kjironman1]

That would work, but not to re-hash this debate for the millionth time, it only helps us if we get a significant return for Ant.

Until he actually comes out and says he would refuse to come off the bench, I think it is ridiculous to assume he would pout in any way if he did. Moving forward (next year) we will need his shooting and we need the depth coming off the bench

Been reading this conversation here and obviously throughout many threads over the last couple years. Thought I would drop my two cents in.
I totally agree with this. Nobody knows how he would respond until it actually becomes a question. As years and the cap changes his salary becomes way more palatable for this. I have a hard time seeing Ant having a problem with it if he takes on that role and he flourishes not only on the court but if the team is winning. I absolutely do not see him being happy coming off the bench for a team that is perpetually tanking. Growth or no growth this will not happen unless they are a playoff team and at least close to contending.

 

[wizenheimer]

That would work, but not to re-hash this debate for the millionth time, it only helps us if we get a significant return for Ant.

Until he actually comes out and says he would refuse to come off the bench, I think it is ridiculous to assume he would pout in any way if he did. Moving forward (next year) we will need his shooting and we need the depth coming off the bench

does that really need to be said though? I don't see people advocating for making any bad trade.

obviously, this is all very subjective. There are pretty significant gaps on what value people assign to Ant and what value he adds to the Blazers. Those differences inform what expectations different people would have on what a "significant return" would be. In the 2015-2018 seasons I saw people strenuously advocating that CJ shouldn't be traded unless at least an all-star or a top-3 pick was coming back. That was Masai Ujiri level over-valuing

as for if Ant would be OK coming off the bench: maybe, but I'm skeptical. Sure, if he was averaging 32-35 minutes coming off the bench he might be OK with it. But if Scoot/Sharpe are worthy starters they'd need 32-35 minutes themselves and that's not leaving any extra minutes; it is also a continuation of Portland being undersized if Ant gets lots of run as the SG

I'd agree trying the experiment is worth a shot. It's too bad Sharpe got injured because for a good chunk of the games he was healthy he was showing starting-level production (kind of turnover prone though). And Scoot has certainly made a case for starting with his play lately

 

[Pinwheel1]

does that really need to be said though? I don't see people advocating for making any bad trade.

obviously, this is all very subjective. There are pretty significant gaps on what value people assign to Ant and what value he adds to the Blazers. Those differences inform what expectations different people would have on what a "significant return" would be. In the 2015-2018 seasons I saw people strenuously advocating that CJ shouldn't be traded unless at least an all-star or a top-3 pick was coming back. That was Masai Ujiri level over-valuing

Yeah, that is the problem IMO. There does seem to be a pretty large gap....and because of it, IMO, some people are advocating for a bad trade. Now I personally don't expect an all-star back, but I would expect a damn good young forward coming back in return.

 

[THE HCP]

It’ll never happen, but Ant would be perfect off the bench backing up Scoot and Sharpe. I hate these financially motivated coaching moves that hurt the team.

I have to disagree sir/maam…… Ant is our best player and his ability to explode for buckets in clutch time is why he starts and plays. No secret hidden agendas here. Chauncey knows this.