Game Thread 2024-25 GAME #35 - BLAZERS @ PISTONS - JAN 6, 2024 - 4:00 PM - CHARGE - KUNP - BLAZERVISION

[THE HCP]

had a nice pregame chat with former Blazer legend Jarrett Jack. Said he will always have a special place in his heart for RipCity!

 

[RR7]

had a nice pregame chat with former Blazer legend Jarrett Jack. Said he will always have a special place in his heart for RipCity!

Is he on the bench in Detroit?? Always liked him. He was super cool when me and my wife met him at fan fest way back when

 

[BlazerBeachBum]

Not joking. Blazers only made 3 of 5 attempts. Pistons made 19 of 22 attempts.

 

[HansenYang]

Becoming a little concerned about the hands of Clingan...Seems to be right there with Nurk. Still early in the career.

Was an observable issue while at UConn

 

[Mediocre Man]

Becoming a little concerned about the hands of Clingan...Seems to be right there with Nurk. Still early in the career.

Nope. People in here said they were elite, so that can’t be the case

 

[PCmor7]

Was an observable issue while at UConn

He looks very Nurk-like with his tendency to just toss stuff toward the rim when he gets the ball near the basket instead of setting himself and taking it strong.

 

[PCmor7]

crap! I thought we had this!

Good loss, if there is such a thing.

 

[SheedSoNasty]

Clingan didn’t look this bad before his injury, so I’m guessing he’s not playing healthy right now. I hope, anyway.

 

[MickZagger]

Living in Pistons country I see a lot of Cade Cunningham, and he's the most boring unimpressive potential star around. He certainly puts up the numbers but Anfernee and Shae looked far more promising tonight.

BUT: that was a great game, which is pretty surprising for a matchup that for the past few years has been a matchup of bottom feeders. I'm sorry to say I missed our first-half 17 point run - if anyone can find a video of it...

24, 9 and 7 for a potential playoff team as a 6’6” PG.

Pipe dream for the Blazers to obtain a player like that

 

[kjironman1]

Rookie wall time for Clingan. You include a knee injury (what did we expect) and you have what you have.
A big plodding center that isn’t very mobile trying to finesse shots around the rim.
He will help them tank.

 

[BlazerBeav]

See I don’t always believe in that. Often times the more aggressive team gets more foul calls.

But I'm pretty sure the Blazers went to the rim more than Detroit - heard a stat on the pregame that we are 3rd in the league at attempts near the rim (partly because we can't shoot from deep). There's no way we shouldn't have had more than 5 FTAs. Ant's last made shot, deep 2 on the side, should absolutely have been an and-1.

 

[MickZagger]

But I'm pretty sure the Blazers went to the rim more than Detroit - heard a stat on the pregame that we are 3rd in the league at attempts near the rim (partly because we can't shoot from deep). There's no way we shouldn't have had more than 5 FTAs. Ant's last made shot, deep 2 on the side, should absolutely have been an and-1.

Yeah, in this instance I’m probably wrong. I was busy yesterday so only saw bits and pieces of the game.

 

[julius]

But I'm pretty sure the Blazers went to the rim more than Detroit - heard a stat on the pregame that we are 3rd in the league at attempts near the rim (partly because we can't shoot from deep). There's no way we shouldn't have had more than 5 FTAs. Ant's last made shot, deep 2 on the side, should absolutely have been an and-1.

the free throw discrepancy (it basically means "difference" @THE HCP ) between the two teams was a bit much. Not saying the Blazers should have had 17 more free throws, but a total of 5?

 

[PCmor7]

the free throw discrepancy (it basically means "difference" @THE HCP ) between the two teams was a bit much. Not saying the Blazers should have had 17 more free throws, but a total of 5?

I think the two things Shae needs that will determine his ceiling are becoming more consistent knocking down open 3s (and just shot selection out there) and playing to contact.

For a guy who is capable of taking and making tough midrange shots and attacking the rim so hard, I think he shoots like 3 FTs per game. He's still not at the stage of bumping beaten defenders to get to the line at least and then counting on his strength and athleticism to get a good shot up. He's playing like it's on the playground and the guy isn't going to call the foul.

He's shooting about 80% from the line. Don't try to avoid defenders in the restricted area. Draw the contact. Get to the line.

 

[PCmor7]

If Scoot had just a slightly below average game last night instead of an absolute stinker, the Blazers probably win.

He's kind of got me to a point where I'm willing to give him a mulligan for that, though. He's been solid the past few games. You need more than solid from a former No. 3 pick, but I'll live with solid right now. I think he's been good on D. In fact, I honestly wouldn't have doubled Cunningham backing Scoot into the post, which gave them some open corner 3s (because we don't rotate to the corners). I'd take my chances on Scoot's strength making Cunningham eat up too much of the shot clock trying to back him down.

 

[KingSpeed]

If Scoot had just a slightly below average game last night instead of an absolute stinker, the Blazers probably win.

He's kind of got me to a point where I'm willing to give him a mulligan for that, though. He's been solid the past few games. You need more than solid from a former No. 3 pick, but I'll live with solid right now. I think he's been good on D. In fact, I honestly wouldn't have doubled Cunningham backing Scoot into the post, which gave them some open corner 3s (because we don't rotate to the corners). I'd take my chances on Scoot's strength making Cunningham eat up too much of the shot clock trying to back him down.

Scoot only played 17 minutes. He needs 40 minutes where he can learn from mistakes and play better as the game goes on.

 

[PCmor7]

Scoot only played 17 minutes. He needs 40 minutes where he can learn from mistakes and play better as the game goes on.

He made at least 40 minutes worth of mistakes last night. There's no guaranteeing he's learning anything.

 

[wizenheimer]

He made at least 40 minutes worth of mistakes last night.

that's because he's young, and energetic. When I make 40 minutes worth of mistakes it takes me a week

 

[KingSpeed]

He made at least 40 minutes worth of mistakes last night. There's no guaranteeing he's learning anything.

No he didn’t. And he only took 2 shots. He still hasn’t been given the team to run where he manage the game and manufacture wins. And if we lose the games, it doesn’t matter because we’re tanking. He should be starting and playing 40 minutes.

 

[PCmor7]

No he didn’t. And he only took 2 shots. He still hasn’t been given the team to run where he manage the game and manufacture wins. And if we lose the games, it doesn’t matter because we’re tanking. He should be starting and playing 40 minutes.

The number of shots he took is meaningless. Not every mistake is taking a bad shot. Some mistakes are not taking a shot. Some mistakes are turning the ball over before anyone could take a shot.

You're creating this false narrative like he hasn't started games and hasn't played 30 minutes in games.

You're also operating under the ridiculous notion that playing and failing has a good chance of making you better. As someone who has played, coached and covered basketball at all levels for more than 40 years, I'm going to tell you straight up that assumption's totally incorrect. Sometimes throwing a player into the deep end of the pool and having them fail destroys their confidence and a player that has a chance loses that chance.

The whole tanking argument is messed up, too. For all you know, Anfernee Simons might be part of this team after the tank is done and Scoot won't be. Not playing Ant because you're trying to lose -- which, also, BTW, doesn't guarantee you a top three pick -- is ludicrous, and trading a young guy like Ant because you want to lose when he could be part of the core of the team if/when it's ready to contend again is equally nonsensical.

If you watched the game last night and thought he didn't have a really, really bad game, then I just don't know how much good basketball you've ever watched. It was pretty evident.

 

[julius]

Scoot has done nothing to warrant more minutes, or the starting spot, and if anything, he's actually given plenty of reasons to keep Simons going forward.

He's not showing enough improvement over the important measurable categories, and honestly he's made it hard to actually justify giving him the keys to the team.

That doesn't mean he won't eventually become a decent player, but as of right now, the team should be sending him to the g-league, and hire him a mentor to help him work on his game.

 

[blazerkor]

I know this is a game thread but let's not act like Scoot hasn't had solid showings in 3 of his last 6 games because he has. The Lakers game he was nice, he was really good at home against the Jazz and Mavs. I think this is what you expect from a developing player... ups and downs. Hopefully we start to see more ups than downs and then a lot more consistency next season.

The way I look at Scoot now and the makeup of our young core, I think Shaedon, Tou and Deni would be really great starting 1-3, I think we need another starting forward who is a great rebounder and we'll see about the 5 spot. Ayton isn't a bad center, just a really frustrating one. Clingan is just under halfway into his rookie season. I'd like to see us get a floor stretching smallball C who is under 25 and who we could stagger with Clingan.

I think the all around talent that Shaedon and Deni have, gives us the opportunity to play really big and still put a lot of pressure on the rim from the perimeter... while still being able to get a ton of assists. We don't need a traditional PG. The Wolves don't, the Thunder don't and yeah I'm comparing Shaedon's potential with those guys. Both Ant Edwards and SGA were ahead of where Shaedon is by this point in their NBA careers but they both played a full season of college and they both had a way clearer launch pad than what Joe has given Shaedon.

Who knows what our front office will do but I like that there are games that we can call ups to go with games like this one which was definitely a down/bad game for Scoot.

 

[Phatguysrule]

The number of shots he took is meaningless. Not every mistake is taking a bad shot. Some mistakes are not taking a shot. Some mistakes are turning the ball over before anyone could take a shot.

You're creating this false narrative like he hasn't started games and hasn't played 30 minutes in games.

You're also operating under the ridiculous notion that playing and failing has a good chance of making you better. As someone who has played, coached and covered basketball at all levels for more than 40 years, I'm going to tell you straight up that assumption's totally incorrect. Sometimes throwing a player into the deep end of the pool and having them fail destroys their confidence and a player that has a chance loses that chance.

The whole tanking argument is messed up, too. For all you know, Anfernee Simons might be part of this team after the tank is done and Scoot won't be. Not playing Ant because you're trying to lose -- which, also, BTW, doesn't guarantee you a top three pick -- is ludicrous, and trading a young guy like Ant because you want to lose when he could be part of the core of the team if/when it's ready to contend again is equally nonsensical.

If you watched the game last night and thought he didn't have a really, really bad game, then I just don't know how much good basketball you've ever watched. It was pretty evident.

If Simons is part of this team when we're done tanking then we have absolutely failed and will probably not even get past the first round.

If we move on from Scoot without giving him the reines (like actually running the point 35 minutes per game) for a season or two we really screwed up with that draft pick.

 

[PCmor7]

If Simons is part of this team when we're done tanking then we have absolutely failed and will probably not even get past the first round.

If we move on from Scoot without giving him the reines (like actually running the point 35 minutes per game) for a season or two we really screwed up with that draft pick.

Disagree on both counts. Accept your opinion, but disagree, and here's why.

First, I don't live by the "contending window" thing, but, even if that's true, Ant's definitely in it. If you watch enough Blazers games with the other team's announcers, you get a different perspective at how respected Ant has become as a player around the league. He's not a good defender, but pretty much every team has a guy that's not a good defender in their rotation. There aren't a lot of players, though, that can create and make shots at all three levels, and he can.

Second, everyone mocking the 2024 draft had Scoot in the top three. Yes, I know there were people around here that liked the Thompson twins, but there weren't many if any experts that didn't have the top three as Wemby, and then Scoot and Miller in some order. That's not a screw-up on our part. That means Scoot just didn't have it, and everyone was fooled.

Finally, for everyone that wants Scoot to run the point for 35 minutes and play 40 minutes per game for the sake of developing, if he can't do that, what about all the other players we're trying to develop? This isn't all about Scoot. We don't have a responsibility to Scoot. We have a responsibility to the team and that means developing the best product we can put on the floor.

Do you honestly want Sharpe and Clingan and whoever we draft in the lottery next year learning how to play by being out on the floor 30 minutes per night with a PG that might be turning it over 5-6 times and shooting 2-13 a quarter of the time? How does that make any of them better? Sure, playing Scoot a lot sounds good, but there are problems with it -- for Scoot, as well -- if he's not up to it. It impedes the progress of everyone having a guy running an offense if he can't run an offense.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Disagree on both counts. Accept your opinion, but disagree, and here's why.

First, I don't live by the "contending window" thing, but, even if that's true, Ant's definitely in it. If you watch enough Blazers games with the other team's announcers, you get a different perspective at how respected Ant has become as a player around the league. He's not a good defender, but pretty much every team has a guy that's not a good defender in their rotation. There aren't a lot of players, though, that can create and make shots at all three levels, and he can.

Second, everyone mocking the 2024 draft had Scoot in the top three. Yes, I know there were people around here that liked the Thompson twins, but there weren't many if any experts that didn't have the top three as Wemby, and then Scoot and Miller in some order. That's not a screw-up on our part. That means Scoot just didn't have it, and everyone was fooled.

Finally, for everyone that wants Scoot to run the point for 35 minutes and play 40 minutes per game for the sake of developing, if he can't do that, what about all the other players we're trying to develop? This isn't all about Scoot. We don't have a responsibility to Scoot. We have a responsibility to the team and that means developing the best product we can put on the floor.

Do you honestly want Sharpe and Clingan and whoever we draft in the lottery next year learning how to play by being out on the floor 30 minutes per night with a PG that might be turning it over 5-6 times and shooting 2-13 a quarter of the time? How does that make any of them better? Sure, playing Scoot a lot sounds good, but there are problems with it -- for Scoot, as well -- if he's not up to it. It impedes the progress of everyone having a guy running an offense if he can't run an offense.

I see it as opportunity cost. Simons isn't it. But he can help us beat bad teams. If we never trade him for draft capital then we've never actually committed to rebuilding and bringing in max talent.

I see no way (aside from lucking into a Wemby/Jokic) that we'll accrue the talent we need without offloading Ant. We just won't be bad enough consistently enough. We're already screwing it up this season and winning too much. Scoot's turnovers help us lose to bad teams.

And Scoot is too good (and too willing) of a distributor to negatively impact anybody else developmentally. I don't see how his turnovers hurt anybody. It's just a bad play you move on from and hopefully learn from. Those turnovers probably lead to a better draft pick and better talent on the team. Once the game slows down for him you'd be better off. That happens from playing a lot and being in every situation over and over.

And if he's playing enough there is somebody who will fall in love with him. He's better than Telfair, and we were able to trade him for a good pick.

But mainly, if you don't make these moves it probably means we've never committed to the rebuild and have been straddling two timelines.

In which case we'll never lose enough to accrue enough talent and we'll be spending Sharpe's career as a bubble team, stuck in purgatory...

I get your points but from my perspective we just don't have enough talent to stick with guys like Simons and Grant if we want to be a legit threat to advance in the playoffs. We have to get value from them and it needs to be young enough that we get a couple more great draft picks from losing as well. Then we need to knock those picks out of the park.