Game Thread 2024-25 GAME #4 - BLAZERS @ KINGS - OCTOBER 28, 2024 - MONDAY - 7:00 PM - KATU 2.2 - BLAZERVISION

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AmirIcon said:
Not sure why it took until 3 mins left in the game to put in Clingan...

Inflating a "good" Ayton game?
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Got to get Ayton another double-double and keep his trade value up. Which seems to be the reason the Blazers exist.

Not for entertainment. Not for improvement. Not to win games. But to keep the trade value up for Simons, Ayton and Grant.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Honestly, I think Clingan is on a minutes restriction. It's the only explanation for his lack of minutes.
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Or we're featuring Ayton. 59% shooting, 20 points, 11 boards and solid defense both in the paint and on the perimeter. Our team screaming at others that this is the 7 footer who played 36 minutes per game in a playoff run that ended at the finals.
 
The only thing wrong with this loss is that Ayton, Grant and Simons got 105 out of our 240 minutes. That's 43% of our minutes for three guys that I don't see on this team in the future. The three of them took 44 (over half) of our 83 shots. Besides Ayton they weren't effective and Jerami and Ant can't be as first and second options. The sooner these three are traded the better and I can't wait for Shaedon to get back from his injury but that's only a good thing if these three guys will let him get more or as many shots up as them.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Honestly, I think Clingan is on a minutes restriction. It's the only explanation for his lack of minutes.
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A minutes restriction that low wouldn't make any sense. That much caution would simply be a DNP.

My guess is match-ups. Sabonis is one of the most active and mobile centers in the league, and Clingan was having a tough time staying in front of him. Ayton, on the other hand, is well suited to that task and was still enough of a presence to keep Sabonis from wanting to do much work in the paint.

Bring the young guy along slowly, and don't throw him in over his head while he acclimates to NBA game speed.
 
1 Eye Jack said:
So lost on why Clinigan only gets 10 minutes. The games Billups plays with young guys gets old. News flash they aren’t going to get better sitting on the bench
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Seriously? You really think the only way for DC to experience any progress is NBA PT? Besides the physical transformation every young guy goes through just with natural maturation, proper nutrition, various training/workouts and practice all play major roles in getting their bodies and minds up to NBA speed. In my view all those factors are more important then PT for a 20 year old rookie who clearly is still ramping up physically to where he needs to be. I'd suggest to have some patience and enjoy the process. I bet he'll be getting more run as he gets stronger.

STOMP
 
SharpesTriumph said:
You didn't mention that Simons Ayton Grant are taking up 90 million of our payroll, so 2/3rd of our cap.

But we had to resign them or we would "lose an asset for nothing" I've been repeatedly told.

Others say we need to hold off trading Grant for an unprotected FRP even if offered so we can later try to get more.

I'd rather see them all gone tomorrow, but I doubt any are moved until the summer, or perhaps never.

We have 78 more games to watch and complain about them...
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Thybulle and RW3 are bigger wastes of cap space. Not that Portland can really do much with cap space anyway. But Simons, Ayton and Grant are very tradable, and Simons/Ayton expire before any of our young players are due.
 
beast blazer said:
Thybulle and RW3 are bigger wastes of cap space. Not that Portland can really do much with cap space anyway. But Simons, Ayton and Grant are very tradable, and Simons/Ayton expire before any of our young players are due.
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RW3 has the unrecognized value of being a valuable mentor for Clingan. Thybulle could theoretically do the same for Sharpe/Scoot, but I don't think his defensive gifts are teachable. Unfortunately, I don't see any of the other 3 having skillsets/mentality necessary to be of benefit to our other youngsters. Would be pretty cool if Grant could help Camara/Murray/Rupert/Walker become competent offensive players, but I don't see that happening.
 
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handiman said:
A minutes restriction that low wouldn't make any sense. That much caution would simply be a DNP.

My guess is match-ups. Sabonis is one of the most active and mobile centers in the league, and Clingan was having a tough time staying in front of him. Ayton, on the other hand, is well suited to that task and was still enough of a presence to keep Sabonis from wanting to do much work in the paint.

Bring the young guy along slowly, and don't throw him in over his head while he acclimates to NBA game speed.
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I understand the bring the young guy along slowly mantra, but this is a throw away season. Portland needs to throw Clingan in the fire every game, match up be damned. Let him get cooked, learn and improve. That way he is ready to take over with Flagg or Bailey next season.
 
handiman said:
A minutes restriction that low wouldn't make any sense. That much caution would simply be a DNP.

My guess is match-ups. Sabonis is one of the most active and mobile centers in the league, and Clingan was having a tough time staying in front of him. Ayton, on the other hand, is well suited to that task and was still enough of a presence to keep Sabonis from wanting to do much work in the paint.

Bring the young guy along slowly, and don't throw him in over his head while he acclimates to NBA game speed.
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Counterpoint: when we played the Kings in pre-season and Sabonis had a terrible game against Clingan.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
The stream I was watching had the Kings announcers and they wouldn't shut up about how lengthy the Blazers were. This is a positive progression from the Dame/CJ era.
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Length is nice, but I’ll be happier when the Blazers have anywhere near the number of shooters that the Kings do.
 
e_blazer said:
Length is nice, but I’ll be happier when the Blazers have anywhere near the number of shooters that the Kings do.
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Shooting is definitely their, by far, biggest weakness. But at least it's not as bad as last year.

Deni has been invisible from 3 and I expect he'll settle in.

Simons has been ccccold to start the year.

Murray seems to have gone back to being hesitant to shoot.

So far this year, they have one decent volume 3pt shooter (Grant). They need to have more than just Grant.
 
julius said:
Shooting is definitely their, by far, biggest weakness. But at least it's not as bad as last year.

Deni has been invisible from 3 and I expect he'll settle in.

Simons has been ccccold to start the year.

Murray seems to have gone back to being hesitant to shoot.

So far this year, they have one decent volume 3pt shooter (Grant). They need to have more than just Grant.
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blazerfan11 said:
Got to get Ayton another double-double and keep his trade value up. Which seems to be the reason the Blazers exist.

Not for entertainment. Not for improvement. Not to win games. But to keep the trade value up for Simons, Ayton and Grant.
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Cronin should have traded them all once we traded Dame, there was no reason to have vets with trade value at that time.

Timelord we missed the boat on and are probably stuck with. Since Ayton isn't listed in the top100 of NBA players and is on a max contract I just don't see him having much if any trade value. Maybe he has a small amount next year on an expiring deal. He's basically will have the Whiteside role for us from a few years ago. Just like Whiteside he will have a massive paycut on his next contract. Simons and Grant may have some trade value, in which case we should trade them ASAP. I question that we will.

Instead all 5 of these vets provide virtually no benefit to this team and stand in the way of opportunities for young players. So depressing to watch Blazer games and have to see this horrific "big 3" of Ayton/Grant/Ant jacking up bad shots, playing bad defense, and leading this team to nowhere.
 
blazerkor said:
The only thing wrong with this loss is that Ayton, Grant and Simons got 105 out of our 240 minutes. That's 43% of our minutes for three guys that I don't see on this team in the future. The three of them took 44 (over half) of our 83 shots. Besides Ayton they weren't effective and Jerami and Ant can't be as first and second options. The sooner these three are traded the better and I can't wait for Shaedon to get back from his injury but that's only a good thing if these three guys will let him get more or as many shots up as them.
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They also take up about 2/3rd of our salary cap. But they must stay here because we "don't want to lose an asset"
 
beast blazer said:
Thybulle and RW3 are bigger wastes of cap space. Not that Portland can really do much with cap space anyway. But Simons, Ayton and Grant are very tradable, and Simons/Ayton expire before any of our young players are due.
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The Blazers were in the luxury tax and had to send out picks in the Deni-Brogdon trade to get salary relief.

Instead we should have not had these overpaid vets on our cap and used the cap space to ACQUIRE PICKS while giving other teams salary relief.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
They also take up about 2/3rd of our salary cap. But they must stay here because we "don't want to lose an asset"
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The way the cap works in the NBA, you have to spend that money. It's better to spend it on something that might give you an asset than pure garbage.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
The stream I was watching had the Kings announcers and they wouldn't shut up about how lengthy the Blazers were. This is a positive progression from the Dame/CJ era.
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Yeah that is one thing I do really like about this team, except for the very few minutes Scoot/Ant share the floor we have a very long lanky team that has defensive better than any Blazers squad in about a decade.

We're currently 17th in the NBA in defensive efficiency 113.6 pts/100 possesions
However we're 28th in offensive efficiency (106.4)
 
andalusian said:
The way the cap works in the NBA, you have to spend that money. It's better to spend it on something that might give you an asset than pure garbage.
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A rebuilding team like the Blazers should spend it like the Spurs did a few months ago acquiring Harrison Barnes type of veterans and getting a FRP. This is the same path the Thunder did to build their current squad the few years of their rebuild, they took on overpaid vets for picks.

Spending the cap space by having Grant/Ayton/Ant taking up 2/3rd of the cap along with Timelord and Thybulle at $12 million each provides zero long term benefit, and any meager short term benefit is worthless during the Blazers current long rebuild.

You'd think Blazer fans would've learned from the cost of the 2016 offseason overpaid contracts. It basically prevented this franchise from ever being able to put useful talent next to Dame and build a contender. But we hear the same stupid arguments over and over to justify bad contracts.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
The Blazers were in the luxury tax and had to send out picks in the Deni-Brogdon trade to get salary relief.

Instead we should have not had these overpaid vets on our cap and used the cap space to ACQUIRE PICKS while giving other teams salary relief.
Click to expand...

I was baffled by Cronin's decision to match the Dallas offer sheet to Thybulle. The justification offered for it was that he'd be a tradable asset with that contract, but tradable for what? maybe a 2nd round pick and a worse contract?

what Thybulle represents, in part, is Portland having to let the 9M TPE's of Payton and Dame expire. At minimum those TPE's could have yielded the 2nd round pick(s) that Thybulle supposedly will generate. Blazers have let 3 solid TPE's expire in the last couple of years: Hart-Payton-Dame. And they now have a 7M TPE from Brogdon that will probably expire because Portland is only 4M below the tax-line mainly because of relatively high-priced veterans that have no compelling future with the Blazers
 
SharpesTriumph said:
A rebuilding team like the Blazers should spend it like the Spurs did a few months ago acquiring Harrison Barnes type of veterans and getting a FRP. This is the same path the Thunder did to build their current squad the few years of their rebuild, they took on overpaid vets for picks.

Spending the cap space by having Grant/Ayton/Ant taking up 2/3rd of the cap along with Timelord and Thybulle at $12 million each provides zero long term benefit, and any meager short term benefit is worthless during the Blazers current long rebuild.

You'd think Blazer fans would've learned from the cost of the 2016 offseason overpaid contracts. It basically prevented this franchise from ever being able to put useful talent next to Dame and build a contender. But we hear the same stupid arguments over and over to justify bad contracts.
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So, basically, that transaction was the Bulls sending a good player on a large salary to the Kings, since the Bulls did not have the cap space they used the Spurs cap space so they (the Spurs) got a large salary of a less desirable player + pick.

And your argument is that the Blazers should have not signed players they believe could be useful and trades and allow them to do a 2 team trade, but go for the cap space and hope there is a 3 team trade that materializes?

Potato, Tomato...
 
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