#24 Anfernee Simons (2 Viewers)

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Boob-No-More said:
Who gives a shit if Melo is considering us? I'm just glad we're not considering him. The guy flat out sucks. There's a reason OKC is jettisoning him after just one season and eating the final year of his contract.

And for everyone bitching about POR having $4.7 million in dead cap space for stretching Nicholson and Varegao, OKC is going to have $9.3 million in dead cap space for the next three seasons for stretching Carmelo. You can't praise them and condemn POR at the same time. Stretching him will save them $91 million in luxury tax payments, but they are still way over the luxury tax threshold and that $9.3 million in dead cap could have been used on someone who would actually be playing for them.

All that, and they still finished behind us in the standings.

Yeah, Olshey's summer of 2016 signings have come back to bite him in the ass. No doubt about that. That was a summer of stupid money league wide, but comparing our cap situation to OKC's makes Presti look way worse than Olshey. I don't think that was your goal.

BNM
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Yeah that's True. Okc is in Cap hell for the Next 4 years or so. Olshey was able to trade Crabbe without a 1st rounder pick. Even after 2 years we still have all our 1st and 2nd round Picks
 
Boob-No-More said:
No, but you're giving Presti credit for "swinging for the fences" when what he really did was a big fat whiff. If Olshey had done the same, given up valuable assets for a 1-year rental of Carmelo Anthony, only to waive and stretch him a year later creating 3 years at $9.3 million a year of dead cap space, you'd be all over his shit. People here are constantly bitching about the $4.7 million in dead cap space Olshey created by waiving and stretching Varejao and Nicholson. Presti creates twice the dead cap space and gets praised for "swinging for the fences".



You make it sound like they got Paul George for free. Yeah, I love Paul George and would love him on the Blazers, but it turns out, OKC didn't even get the better player in that trade.

View attachment 21557

View attachment 21558

Paul George had a good season and made 3rd team All NBA. Oladipo had a great season, won MIP, was 1st team All Defense and also 3rd team All NBA.

And it wasn't just Oladipo that Pressti gave up to get Paul George, he also gave up Domantas Sabonis, who was better off the bench for IND than any big man OKC had.

View attachment 21563
View attachment 21559



OKC gave up a 3rd team All NBA player who was also 1st team all defense, and completely gutted their bench to get Melo and PG13. A year later they managed to resign Paul George (who is two years older and makes $12 million more per season than Victor Oladipo - who is arguably a better player) and are paying Carmelo $9.3 million a year for the next 3 years to NOT play for them. And yet, you sing their praises.

And LOL, Nerlens Noel is NOT the answer. He barely played for one of the crappiest teams in the league last season. Both Damontas Sabonins and Enes Kanter, who OKC gave up (in addition to Oladipo) are better players than Nerlens Noel.



You mean like they did last year? Oh wait... Yeah, last year when they landed PG13 and Melo, EVERYONE penciled them in to run away with the NW Division and challenge GSW and HOU for the top spot in the West. How'd that work out? They improved by exactly 1 win and finished behind POR who got shit on for missing out on PG13 and Melo, yet managed to improve by 8 wins.

Yeah, Olshey isn't perfect. His summer of 2016 signings were disastrous, but to praise Presti while trashing Olshey is disingenuous to an extreme - and Presti doesn't even have the Summer of 2016 everyone got stupid money excuse to fall back on. Even after waiving and stretching Melo, OKC is still hopelessly over the tax threshold for the 2nd year in a row and have over $150 million in guaranteed salary for 2019-20, which will cement them as repeat offenders, which will further tie their hands when trying to "improve" their roster.

Keep in mind this is the same GM that lost Kevin Durant for nothing and gave away James Harden for peanuts. Yet, he deserves praise for "swinging for the fences", when what he really deserves is derision for repeatedly striking out.

BNM
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You forgot one important thing.

You didn’t drop the mic.
 
Labinot41 said:
Yeah that's True. Okc is in Cap hell for the Next 4 years or so. Olshey was able to trade Crabbe without a 1st rounder pick. Even after 2 years we still have all our 1st and 2nd round Picks
Click to expand...

Yep, Olshey is still trying to dig out of the mess he created two summer ago, but Presti has dug and even deeper hole and that franchise will be hemorrhaging money for several years with very few options for improving the roster due to repeat offender penalties.

Two years from now, they will have $104 million tied up in just three players (Westbrook = $41 million, PG13 = $35.5 million and Adams = $27.5 million), plus $9.3 million in dead cap space to Carmelo AND be saddled with repeat offender penalties. Even if OKC fills out their last 11 roster spots exclusively with min salary players, they will be looking at paying the luxury tax fro the 4th straight year. Plus they owe their 2020 first round pick to ORL.

By comparison, two years from now, POR will have $72 million tied up in their three highest paid players and have cheap team options for Zach Collins and Anfernee Simons, Gary Trent Jr. locked up at $1.6 million, between $30 and $40 million in cap space to work with and no repeat offender penalties to limit their roster moves.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Yep, Olshey is still trying to dig out of the mess he created two summer ago, but Presti has dug and even deeper hole and that franchise will be hemorrhaging money for several years with very few options for improving the roster due to repeat offender penalties.

Two years from now, they will have $104 million tied up in just three players (Westbrook = $41 million, PG13 = $35.5 million and Adams = $27.5 million), plus $9.3 million in dead cap space to Carmelo AND be saddled with repeat offender penalties. Even if OKC fills out their last 11 roster spots exclusively with min salary players, they will be looking at paying the luxury tax fro the 4th straight year. Plus they owe their 2020 first round pick to ORL.

By comparison, two years from now, POR will have $72 million tied up in their three highest paid players and have cheap team options for Zach Collins and Anfernee Simons, Gary Trent Jr. locked up at $1.6 million, between $30 and $40 million in cap space to work with and no repeat offender penalties to limit their roster moves.

BNM
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What is the repeat offender penalty?
 
Boob-No-More said:
No, but you're giving Presti credit for "swinging for the fences" when what he really did was a big fat whiff. If Olshey had done the same, given up valuable assets for a 1-year rental of Carmelo Anthony, only to waive and stretch him a year later creating 3 years at $9.3 million a year of dead cap space, you'd be all over his shit. People here are constantly bitching about the $4.7 million in dead cap space Olshey created by waiving and stretching Varejao and Nicholson. Presti creates twice the dead cap space and gets praised for "swinging for the fences".



You make it sound like they got Paul George for free. Yeah, I love Paul George and would love him on the Blazers, but it turns out, OKC didn't even get the better player in that trade.

View attachment 21557

View attachment 21558

Paul George had a good season and made 3rd team All NBA. Oladipo had a great season, won MIP, was 1st team All Defense and also 3rd team All NBA.

And it wasn't just Oladipo that Pressti gave up to get Paul George, he also gave up Domantas Sabonis, who was better off the bench for IND than any big man OKC had.

View attachment 21563
View attachment 21559



OKC gave up a 3rd team All NBA player who was also 1st team all defense, and completely gutted their bench to get Melo and PG13. A year later they managed to resign Paul George (who is two years older and makes $12 million more per season than Victor Oladipo - who is arguably a better player) and are paying Carmelo $9.3 million a year for the next 3 years to NOT play for them. And yet, you sing their praises.

And LOL, Nerlens Noel is NOT the answer. He barely played for one of the crappiest teams in the league last season. Both Damontas Sabonins and Enes Kanter, who OKC gave up (in addition to Oladipo) are better players than Nerlens Noel.



You mean like they did last year? Oh wait... Yeah, last year when they landed PG13 and Melo, EVERYONE penciled them in to run away with the NW Division and challenge GSW and HOU for the top spot in the West. How'd that work out? They improved by exactly 1 win and finished behind POR who got shit on for missing out on PG13 and Melo, yet managed to improve by 8 wins.

Yeah, Olshey isn't perfect. His summer of 2016 signings were disastrous, but to praise Presti while trashing Olshey is disingenuous to an extreme - and Presti doesn't even have the Summer of 2016 everyone got stupid money excuse to fall back on. Even after waiving and stretching Melo, OKC is still hopelessly over the tax threshold for the 2nd year in a row and have over $150 million in guaranteed salary for 2019-20, which will cement them as repeat offenders, which will further tie their hands when trying to "improve" their roster.

Keep in mind this is the same GM that lost Kevin Durant for nothing and gave away James Harden for peanuts. Yet, he deserves praise for "swinging for the fences", when what he really deserves is derision for repeatedly striking out.

BNM
Click to expand...

All that stuff is neat. But you proved what? That you have to give up assets to get assets? This is something people in here, and Olshey seemingly, are incredibly adverse to doing. Would you not trade CJ and Collins for Paul George? And Baldwin and whoever else? Of course you would. Indiana did well to get as much as they could, but what you're illustrating is exactly why Portland has been locked in mediocrity. Paralysis through analysis.

"Didn't get the better player in trade"? Time will tell, but I think that's crazy talk, actual crazy talk.

Thing is I don't even like OKC or Presti or whatever, and all these assumptions about how angry people would be about this and that are silly. For one, there will always be people for and against everything; it isn't about that. And two, Olshey does not function in the same manner as Presti. He is scared af; white-knuckling and finger-crossing.

And so what Melo failed? You know who people would blame, I'd guess? Fucking Melo. You say EVERYONE penciled them in...meaning EVERYONE assumed they'd be badass, meaning something went wrong. That's not on Presti. 3 stars, a solid center, some young talent, blah blah blah. They should have been better. And they will. "Surround him with shooters." That says it all. Presti didn't try to make it work, he just cut ties and moved on. (And dude, the guys we stretched didn't even see the court. Melo was evaluated and discarded. It's different.)

Dude, I'm not singing Presti's praises for his management of the salary cap. I'm singing his praises for swinging for the fucking fences, and what does swinging for the fences result in? It's not always a home run. But he took a chance, a chance that even you've said resulted in a team EVERYONE thought would win this and that and it simply didn't happen. And he has struck out.

Why you bringing up past shit? OKC has also been to the FINALS under Presti. Olshey once traded Baron Davis for what turned into Kyrie Irving. So what? We're talking about now. I think Presti made a mistake, personally, hitching his horse to Westbrook, or this or that, but again, so what? The point is he made big time moves. (The funny side note is that we couldn't have even made either of those moves with the "assets" Olshey has acquired.)

So, you're down for the friendly wager? I will wait to shake until I'm positive Olshey doesn't swing for the fences himself. The prize? Ownership of what the "Custom Title" says (yours at the moment says,"Why you no hire big man coach?").

And this argument can die here in agree to disagree land. You're being super pragmatic and I appreciate it, but I actually am not a fan of OKC, or Presti. I'm just tired of what's happening here. I don't think we're trending upwards. I don't think we're improved or even will improve under Olshey because he doesn't take (the necessary) chances, and thus began the argument in the first place.
 
Propagandist said:
All that stuff is neat. But you proved what? That you have to give up assets to get assets? This is something people in here, and Olshey seemingly, are incredibly adverse to doing. Would you not trade CJ and Collins for Paul George? And Baldwin and whoever else? Of course you would. Indiana did well to get as much as they could, but what you're illustrating is exactly why Portland has been locked in mediocrity. Paralysis through analysis.

"Didn't get the better player in trade"? Time will tell, but I think that's crazy talk, actual crazy talk.

Thing is I don't even like OKC or Presti or whatever, and all these assumptions about how angry people would be about this and that are silly. For one, there will always be people for and against everything; it isn't about that. And two, Olshey does not function in the same manner as Presti. He is scared af; white-knuckling and finger-crossing.

And so what Melo failed? You know who people would blame, I'd guess? Fucking Melo. You say EVERYONE penciled them in...meaning EVERYONE assumed they'd be badass, meaning something went wrong. That's not on Presti. 3 stars, a solid center, some young talent, blah blah blah. They should have been better. And they will. "Surround him with shooters." That says it all. Presti didn't try to make it work, he just cut ties and moved on. (And dude, the guys we stretched didn't even see the court. Melo was evaluated and discarded. It's different.)

Dude, I'm not singing Presti's praises for his management of the salary cap. I'm singing his praises for swinging for the fucking fences, and what does swinging for the fences result in? It's not always a home run. But he took a chance, a chance that even you've said resulted in a team EVERYONE thought would win this and that and it simply didn't happen. And he has struck out.

Why you bringing up past shit? OKC has also been to the FINALS under Presti. Olshey once traded Baron Davis for what turned into Kyrie Irving. So what? We're talking about now. I think Presti made a mistake, personally, hitching his horse to Westbrook, or this or that, but again, so what? The point is he made big time moves. (The funny side note is that we couldn't have even made either of those moves with the "assets" Olshey has acquired.)

So, you're down for the friendly wager? I will wait to shake until I'm positive Olshey doesn't swing for the fences himself. The prize? Ownership of what the "Custom Title" says (yours at the moment says,"Why you no hire big man coach?").

And this argument can die here in agree to disagree land. You're being super pragmatic and I appreciate it, but I actually am not a fan of OKC, or Presti. I'm just tired of what's happening here. I don't think we're trending upwards. I don't think we're improved or even will improve under Olshey because he doesn't take (the necessary) chances, and thus began the argument in the first place.
Click to expand...

So, what you are saying is you would rather soar up to a team in repeated tax hell, forcing you to come crashing back down with a quickness, rather than stay the course on the long and steady road?

You would rather have the roller coaster than the steadfast longevity?

Sounds about right for EmoPortland.
 
Propagandist said:
All that stuff is neat. But you proved what? That you have to give up assets to get assets? This is something people in here, and Olshey seemingly, are incredibly adverse to doing. Would you not trade CJ and Collins for Paul George? And Baldwin and whoever else? Of course you would. Indiana did well to get as much as they could, but what you're illustrating is exactly why Portland has been locked in mediocrity. Paralysis through analysis.

"Didn't get the better player in trade"? Time will tell, but I think that's crazy talk, actual crazy talk.

Thing is I don't even like OKC or Presti or whatever, and all these assumptions about how angry people would be about this and that are silly. For one, there will always be people for and against everything; it isn't about that. And two, Olshey does not function in the same manner as Presti. He is scared af; white-knuckling and finger-crossing.

And so what Melo failed? You know who people would blame, I'd guess? Fucking Melo. You say EVERYONE penciled them in...meaning EVERYONE assumed they'd be badass, meaning something went wrong. That's not on Presti. 3 stars, a solid center, some young talent, blah blah blah. They should have been better. And they will. "Surround him with shooters." That says it all. Presti didn't try to make it work, he just cut ties and moved on. (And dude, the guys we stretched didn't even see the court. Melo was evaluated and discarded. It's different.)

Dude, I'm not singing Presti's praises for his management of the salary cap. I'm singing his praises for swinging for the fucking fences, and what does swinging for the fences result in? It's not always a home run. But he took a chance, a chance that even you've said resulted in a team EVERYONE thought would win this and that and it simply didn't happen. And he has struck out.

Why you bringing up past shit? OKC has also been to the FINALS under Presti. Olshey once traded Baron Davis for what turned into Kyrie Irving. So what? We're talking about now. I think Presti made a mistake, personally, hitching his horse to Westbrook, or this or that, but again, so what? The point is he made big time moves. (The funny side note is that we couldn't have even made either of those moves with the "assets" Olshey has acquired.)

So, you're down for the friendly wager? I will wait to shake until I'm positive Olshey doesn't swing for the fences himself. The prize? Ownership of what the "Custom Title" says (yours at the moment says,"Why you no hire big man coach?").

And this argument can die here in agree to disagree land. You're being super pragmatic and I appreciate it, but I actually am not a fan of OKC, or Presti. I'm just tired of what's happening here. I don't think we're trending upwards. I don't think we're improved or even will improve under Olshey because he doesn't take (the necessary) chances, and thus began the argument in the first place.
Click to expand...


So you want our GM to make shitty rash decisions, strike out, make terrible mistakes, and put his team in salary tax hell?

Cool story bro.
 
For the umpteenth year in a row, Presti should have traded Westbrick....

Instead of "disingenuous" I think you really mean "naive", and I'd agree.

Boob-No-More said:
No, but you're giving Presti credit for "swinging for the fences" when what he really did was a big fat whiff. If Olshey had done the same, given up valuable assets for a 1-year rental of Carmelo Anthony, only to waive and stretch him a year later creating 3 years at $9.3 million a year of dead cap space, you'd be all over his shit. People here are constantly bitching about the $4.7 million in dead cap space Olshey created by waiving and stretching Varejao and Nicholson. Presti creates twice the dead cap space and gets praised for "swinging for the fences".



You make it sound like they got Paul George for free. Yeah, I love Paul George and would love him on the Blazers, but it turns out, OKC didn't even get the better player in that trade.

View attachment 21557

View attachment 21558

Paul George had a good season and made 3rd team All NBA. Oladipo had a great season, won MIP, was 1st team All Defense and also 3rd team All NBA.

And it wasn't just Oladipo that Pressti gave up to get Paul George, he also gave up Domantas Sabonis, who was better off the bench for IND than any big man OKC had.

View attachment 21563
View attachment 21559



OKC gave up a 3rd team All NBA player who was also 1st team all defense, and completely gutted their bench to get Melo and PG13. A year later they managed to resign Paul George (who is two years older and makes $12 million more per season than Victor Oladipo - who is arguably a better player) and are paying Carmelo $9.3 million a year for the next 3 years to NOT play for them. And yet, you sing their praises.

And LOL, Nerlens Noel is NOT the answer. He barely played for one of the crappiest teams in the league last season. Both Damontas Sabonins and Enes Kanter, who OKC gave up (in addition to Oladipo) are better players than Nerlens Noel.



You mean like they did last year? Oh wait... Yeah, last year when they landed PG13 and Melo, EVERYONE penciled them in to run away with the NW Division and challenge GSW and HOU for the top spot in the West. How'd that work out? They improved by exactly 1 win and finished behind POR who got shit on for missing out on PG13 and Melo, yet managed to improve by 8 wins.

Yeah, Olshey isn't perfect. His summer of 2016 signings were disastrous, but to praise Presti while trashing Olshey is disingenuous to an extreme - and Presti doesn't even have the Summer of 2016 everyone got stupid money excuse to fall back on. Even after waiving and stretching Melo, OKC is still hopelessly over the tax threshold for the 2nd year in a row and have over $150 million in guaranteed salary for 2019-20, which will cement them as repeat offenders, which will further tie their hands when trying to "improve" their roster.

Keep in mind this is the same GM that lost Kevin Durant for nothing and gave away James Harden for peanuts. Yet, he deserves praise for "swinging for the fences", when what he really deserves is derision for repeatedly striking out.

BNM
Click to expand...
 
Orion Bailey said:
So, what you are saying is you would rather soar up to a team in repeated tax hell, forcing you to come crashing back down with a quickness, rather than stay the course on the long and steady road?

You would rather have the roller coaster than the steadfast longevity?

Sounds about right for EmoPortland.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I'm saying...
 
Propagandist said:
All that stuff is neat. But you proved what? That you have to give up assets to get assets? This is something people in here, and Olshey seemingly, are incredibly adverse to doing. Would you not trade CJ and Collins for Paul George? And Baldwin and whoever else? Of course you would. Indiana did well to get as much as they could, but what you're illustrating is exactly why Portland has been locked in mediocrity. Paralysis through analysis.

"Didn't get the better player in trade"? Time will tell, but I think that's crazy talk, actual crazy talk.

Thing is I don't even like OKC or Presti or whatever, and all these assumptions about how angry people would be about this and that are silly. For one, there will always be people for and against everything; it isn't about that. And two, Olshey does not function in the same manner as Presti. He is scared af; white-knuckling and finger-crossing.

And so what Melo failed? You know who people would blame, I'd guess? Fucking Melo. You say EVERYONE penciled them in...meaning EVERYONE assumed they'd be badass, meaning something went wrong. That's not on Presti. 3 stars, a solid center, some young talent, blah blah blah. They should have been better. And they will. "Surround him with shooters." That says it all. Presti didn't try to make it work, he just cut ties and moved on. (And dude, the guys we stretched didn't even see the court. Melo was evaluated and discarded. It's different.)

Dude, I'm not singing Presti's praises for his management of the salary cap. I'm singing his praises for swinging for the fucking fences, and what does swinging for the fences result in? It's not always a home run. But he took a chance, a chance that even you've said resulted in a team EVERYONE thought would win this and that and it simply didn't happen. And he has struck out.

Why you bringing up past shit? OKC has also been to the FINALS under Presti. Olshey once traded Baron Davis for what turned into Kyrie Irving. So what? We're talking about now. I think Presti made a mistake, personally, hitching his horse to Westbrook, or this or that, but again, so what? The point is he made big time moves. (The funny side note is that we couldn't have even made either of those moves with the "assets" Olshey has acquired.)

So, you're down for the friendly wager? I will wait to shake until I'm positive Olshey doesn't swing for the fences himself. The prize? Ownership of what the "Custom Title" says (yours at the moment says,"Why you no hire big man coach?").

And this argument can die here in agree to disagree land. You're being super pragmatic and I appreciate it, but I actually am not a fan of OKC, or Presti. I'm just tired of what's happening here. I don't think we're trending upwards. I don't think we're improved or even will improve under Olshey because he doesn't take (the necessary) chances, and thus began the argument in the first place.
Click to expand...

Puts 7 paragraphs down.
Only to say. This argument can die.
When if he actually wanted it to die.
He could've just not wrote 7 paragraphs.

Hilarious.
 
honkicracker said:
Puts 7 paragraphs down.
Only to say. This argument can die.
When if he actually wanted it to die.
He could've just not wrote 7 paragraphs.

Hilarious.
Click to expand...

Meaning we're at an impasse.
I don't ignore
things.
And it doesn't change the
way I feel, if
I'm tired of talking
about it.
 
Propagandist said:
Meaning we're at an impasse.
I don't ignore
things.
And it doesn't change the
way I feel, if
I'm tired of talking
about it.
Click to expand...

Yet you wrote 7 paragaphs talking about it.
Only to then tell the other person to not respond and just agree to disagree.
What if the other person is like you?

Hilarious.
 
honkicracker said:
Yet you wrote 7 paragaphs talking about it.
Only to then tell the other person to not respond and just agree to disagree.
What if the other person is like you?

Hilarious.
Click to expand...

Read what I wrote again & fo. We were sharing opinions. I read his he read mine and if he has more to say I'll read it but we have fundamentally different takes so it'd serve about as much purpose as responding to whatever you're doing here.
 
hoopsjock said:
Yes, he brought in Allen and Garnett in the summer of 2007. He was crying when the Celtics didn't win the Oden sweepstakes which in theory turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to him as GM. Funny how that works out sometimes.
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Thank you kind sir! I should’ve just googled it in retrospect - thanks for responding kindly!
 
The further and further we get into the off-season, the general consensus seems to migrate back to defending Olshey and Stotts after demanding for change this summer... Maybe that's just my own perception, but I wonder why that is.
 
Propagandist said:
The tax thing, yes. True. But you sure as hell can blame a GM for sucking at his job, yes. Get over the inferiority complex about Portland. Olshey cannot close deals. That's on him.

"Maneuvered the cap pretty well" makes me feel like I'm dreaming. What on earth. Nailed the draft?!! Yikes.

And OKC is a cap mess. But at least they are getting guys. They are rejecting Melo. A guy we couldn't even get to consider us, they are jettisoning... And he still wouldn't consider us. Why? I'd say because of the Captain Olshey sailing without a rudder.
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If you’re judging GMs by their ability to land free agents in Portland, every single one of them would be fired. It’s not an inferiority complex - it’s actually straight from NBA players mouths. They factor in (or agents, should I say) tax as well, and most players end up in one of the significant markets. Anyhow, if that’s you’re measure, we have never had a successful GM by signing free agents.

Olshey has proven to close numerous deals via trade. He has also been one of the better evaluators and accumulators of talent. He has been one of the better Drafting GMs.

Our cap has been maneuvered extremely well all things considered. If you believe otherwise, we will agree to disagree. He gave out a bad contract. That’s not a poorly managed cap - that’s a bad decision. Poorly managed is OKC.

Also, it’s laughable you’re talking about OKC, cap management and talent acquisition. They let Harden walk over 8 million and destroyed a team that should’ve won titles because of their legitimate fear of paying luxury tax. Now, worse managed cap in the league and making desperation moves to be relevant, in the short term, to compensate for fucking it up years ago.

Presti is a trash GM that gets accolades like he has actually done something. He, or OKC ownership, blew up an NBA finals team. Brilliant!
 
oldmangrouch said:
Simons has spent his time using his raw talent to beat up on high school kids. Making the jump to NBA player is huge. He has to show the brains/discipline/work ethic - or he becomes another Telfair. I understand why folks want to be optimistic, but let's wait before annointing him the next [insert player name here].

Trent has competed against a higher level of competition at Duke, and that should help his learning curve. OTOH, look how Zach struggled as a rook. (and he was more highly touted in the draft than Trent)

I know some here consider me Debby Downer - but is it really realistic to think either of these guys will contribute this season? If Trent contributes next season, he will still have a sharper learning curve than CJ. Not bad for a second round pick.
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If anything, this makes Simons performance more impressive. He doesn’t have the coaching, experience, weight room work that Trent received while at one of the best college programs in the nation - yet he has required hardly any adjustment period to the competition, which is more advanced than Trent was playing, and seemingly had adjusted better or just as well as Trent; at the very least.
 
Propagandist said:
All that stuff is neat. But you proved what? That you have to give up assets to get assets? This is something people in here, and Olshey seemingly, are incredibly adverse to doing. Would you not trade CJ and Collins for Paul George? And Baldwin and whoever else? Of course you would. Indiana did well to get as much as they could, but what you're illustrating is exactly why Portland has been locked in mediocrity. Paralysis through analysis.

"Didn't get the better player in trade"? Time will tell, but I think that's crazy talk, actual crazy talk.

Thing is I don't even like OKC or Presti or whatever, and all these assumptions about how angry people would be about this and that are silly. For one, there will always be people for and against everything; it isn't about that. And two, Olshey does not function in the same manner as Presti. He is scared af; white-knuckling and finger-crossing.

And so what Melo failed? You know who people would blame, I'd guess? Fucking Melo. You say EVERYONE penciled them in...meaning EVERYONE assumed they'd be badass, meaning something went wrong. That's not on Presti. 3 stars, a solid center, some young talent, blah blah blah. They should have been better. And they will. "Surround him with shooters." That says it all. Presti didn't try to make it work, he just cut ties and moved on. (And dude, the guys we stretched didn't even see the court. Melo was evaluated and discarded. It's different.)

Dude, I'm not singing Presti's praises for his management of the salary cap. I'm singing his praises for swinging for the fucking fences, and what does swinging for the fences result in? It's not always a home run. But he took a chance, a chance that even you've said resulted in a team EVERYONE thought would win this and that and it simply didn't happen. And he has struck out.

Why you bringing up past shit? OKC has also been to the FINALS under Presti. Olshey once traded Baron Davis for what turned into Kyrie Irving. So what? We're talking about now. I think Presti made a mistake, personally, hitching his horse to Westbrook, or this or that, but again, so what? The point is he made big time moves. (The funny side note is that we couldn't have even made either of those moves with the "assets" Olshey has acquired.)

So, you're down for the friendly wager? I will wait to shake until I'm positive Olshey doesn't swing for the fences himself. The prize? Ownership of what the "Custom Title" says (yours at the moment says,"Why you no hire big man coach?").

And this argument can die here in agree to disagree land. You're being super pragmatic and I appreciate it, but I actually am not a fan of OKC, or Presti. I'm just tired of what's happening here. I don't think we're trending upwards. I don't think we're improved or even will improve under Olshey because he doesn't take (the necessary) chances, and thus began the argument in the first place.
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t trade CJ and Zach for PG... no way, no how.

Should check put his second half shooting numbers post broken leg. Dude isn’t the same.
 
JoshuaHall said:
If you’re judging GMs by their ability to land free agents in Portland, every single one of them would be fired. It’s not an inferiority complex - it’s actually straight from NBA players mouths. They factor in (or agents, should I say) tax as well, and most players end up in one of the significant markets. Anyhow, if that’s you’re measure, we have never had a successful GM by signing free agents.

Olshey has proven to close numerous deals via trade. He has also been one of the better evaluators and accumulators of talent. He has been one of the better Drafting GMs.

Our cap has been maneuvered extremely well all things considered. If you believe otherwise, we will agree to disagree. He gave out a bad contract. That’s not a poorly managed cap - that’s a bad decision. Poorly managed is OKC.

Also, it’s laughable you’re talking about OKC, cap management and talent acquisition. They let Harden walk over 8 million and destroyed a team that should’ve won titles because of their legitimate fear of paying luxury tax. Now, worse managed cap in the league and making desperation moves to be relevant, in the short term, to compensate for fucking it up years ago.

Presti is a trash GM that gets accolades like he has actually done something. He, or OKC ownership, blew up an NBA finals team. Brilliant!
Click to expand...

This has already run too long. But okay.....I'd love to read the straight from NBA players['] mouths quotes, but there won't be any so I'm not going to hold my breath. And we have not had a go-get-'em GM in a long while, it's true. But self-fulfilling prophesies are just that. And it is an inferiority complex, that's the complex part of it. You have it too. It is true, of course, that weather, taxes, and all these things contribute to the choices made by players. But it is up to GMs to convince them, to put the work in. In fact, Neil Olshey is so bad at free agency that a player in October that wanted to be here forever, left in July.

Haha. Olshey has been close? That doesn't even deserve a response, but when? And what's all this about the drafting prowess? I'm not in complete disagreement, but beyond Dame I'm not 100% sold on any of these guys. CJ is good, but waaay overvalued, and overpaid accordingly.

My point has NEVER been that Presti is doing great with cap management. ONLY that he tried to compete with GS instead of just trying to make the playoffs and talk shit about fans that want more. Just like Morey did. Ainge too. They went for it. The fact that I'm getting flak for it just shows how gaslighted you guys are. This team is boring af and NOT ascending as constructed AND going to be over the cap. (Responding to this virtual propaganda has made me actually dumber.)
 
Propagandist said:
Dude, I'm not singing Presti's praises for his management of the salary cap. I'm singing his praises for swinging for the fucking fences, and what does swinging for the fences result in? It's not always a home run. But he took a chance, a chance that even you've said resulted in a team EVERYONE thought would win this and that and it simply didn't happen. And he has struck out.
Click to expand...
Natebishop3 said:
I would have traded CJ. Not Zach.

At the time, Oladipo and Sabonis were coming off a very mediocre season. CJ should have been more than enough value to get George.
Click to expand...
Oladipo went to IU. Butts in seat, love.
 
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