3 point shots

[dviss1]

Nope. But don't try to say that because I'm not a cook I don't know when a dish is burnt.

No, what I'm saying is, when you teach closing out, you teach a player to sit down with his arms raised. That way you can defend the show and go as well as the shot.

When you see a guy jumping and lunging, it's because he's out of position. That player should not be rewarded, rather, he should be penalized for playing bad D. And he is if the offensive player jumps.

 

[blue9]

No, what I'm saying is, when you teach closing out, you teach a player to sit down with his arms raised. That way you can defend the show and go as well as the shot.

When you see a guy jumping and lunging, it's because he's out of position. That player should not be rewarded, rather, he should be penalized for playing bad D. And he is if the offensive player jumps.

The "penalty" is that he's late and the shooter gets a cleaner look. He shouldn't be further penalized for attempting to affect the shot...and he most definitely should attempt to get a hand in the shooter's face. And you do that by jumping to the side of the shooter or by ensuring you'll land short before running into the shooter.
You must have been upset about the rule change on rip-throughs and leg-kicks, because that limits the freedom of movement of the offensive player. And the movement in those actions is actually contained to space they already occupy, unlike jumping sideways into space you don't occupy.
Luckily the issue isn't rampant, but rather confined to a few players...although I've noticed Dame add it to his game which is both good/bad. If the league is going to reward bitchass play then I want our players to benefit from it too. But just like they changed the rules on kicks/rips, I think they should change the rule on offense-initiated contact on unnatural jumpers. The previous rule changes didn't ruin the game - they improved it. Same would be the case here.

 

[SportsAndWhine]

The "penalty" is that he's late and the shooter gets a cleaner look. He shouldn't be further penalized for attempting to affect the shot...and he most definitely should attempt to get a hand in the shooter's face. And you do that by jumping to the side of the shooter or by ensuring you'll land short before running into the shooter.
You must have been upset about the rule change on rip-throughs and leg-kicks, because that limits the freedom of movement of the offensive player. And the movement in those actions is actually contained to space they already occupy, unlike jumping sideways into space you don't occupy.
Luckily the issue isn't rampant, but rather confined to a few players...although I've noticed Dame add it to his game which is both good/bad. If the league is going to reward bitchass play then I want our players to benefit from it too. But just like they changed the rules on kicks/rips, I think they should change the rule on offense-initiated contact on unnatural jumpers. The previous rule changes didn't ruin the game - they improved it. Same would be the case here.

It sounds like your issue with certain plays is what goal the offensive player has when they attempt the shot. If the goal is "Put the basketball in the basket to earn points", you're happy with actions that help with that goal. But if the goal is "get the ref to call a foul so I can earn my points at the line" you're not happy with that. It's more philosophical than technical in that regard. You're arguing philosophy, and dviss is arguing technical rules interpretation... letter of the law versus spirit of the law.

 

[blue9]

It sounds like your issue with certain plays is what goal the offensive player has when they attempt the shot. If the goal is "Put the basketball in the basket to earn points", you're happy with actions that help with that goal. But if the goal is "get the ref to call a foul so I can earn my points at the line" you're not happy with that. It's more philosophical than technical in that regard.

I think that mostly you're correct. Any jump shot taken without the goal to be to make the shot is bullshit. I'm more lenient with regards to post-play/lay-ups - you should still be focused on making a legit attempt at scoring, but attempting to draw a foul is a bonus. Any offensive play that isn't a legit attempt to put the ball through the hoop isn't basketball IMO.

 

[BonesJones]

But just like they changed the rules on kicks/rips, I think they should change the rule on offense-initiated contact on unnatural jumpers. The previous rule changes didn't ruin the game - they improved it. Same would be the case here.

I agree with this to a point. If the defender jumps but is traveling/landing outside the offensive players should width at the time, leaning towards that path by the offensive player shouldn't be rewarded with a foul. At must, it shouldn't be a shooting foul, since it's an unnatural shooting motion.

 

[blue9]

I agree with this to a point. If the defender jumps but is traveling/landing outside the offensive players should width at the time, leaning towards that path by the offensive player shouldn't be rewarded with a foul. At must, it shouldn't be a shooting foul, since it's an unnatural shooting motion.

This is all I'm saying. I think most people would agree that this would improve the game.