500 HR for Big Frank

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DevinHester23

DevinHester23

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Congrats to the big guy :beerbang2: :beerbang2: :beerbang2: :beerbang2: :beerbang2:Such a shame the White Sox had to treat him like shit
 
Yeah congrats to him. Heh, he also got tossed oout of the game for arguing a stikeout called against him.
 
Too bad he isn't even good. Props to him, but this doesn't make him great or anything. He sucks at everything else.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capt. Comeback @ Jun 29 2007, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Too bad he isn't even good. Props to him, but this doesn't make him great or anything. He sucks at everything else.</div>WTF are you smoking!!?? I think Thomas is one of the 50 greatest hitters of all time in MLB
 
He's also probably top 5 slowest people ever to play baseball. That means he is useless for getting hits other than HR's or singles hit to deep parts of the park. He also was no good in the field, obviously the reason he's been a DH for like ever.So yea, he can smack HR's sometimes, but that doesn't make him a great player or even a hitter. Great hitters can run the bases to get the extra bases.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capt. Comeback @ Jun 30 2007, 02:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He's also probably top 5 slowest people ever to play baseball. That means he is useless for getting hits other than HR's or singles hit to deep parts of the park. He also was no good in the field, obviously the reason he's been a DH for like ever.So yea, he can smack HR's sometimes, but that doesn't make him a great player or even a hitter. Great hitters can run the bases to get the extra bases.</div>Man, he has a .303 Career Batting Average and a .423 Career On Base Percentage. He was a very good hitter in his career.Yeah, maybe he's nothing more then a DH, but he's been a very damn good DH.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capt. Comeback @ Jun 30 2007, 05:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He's also probably top 5 slowest people ever to play baseball. That means he is useless for getting hits other than HR's or singles hit to deep parts of the park. He also was no good in the field, obviously the reason he's been a DH for like ever.So yea, he can smack HR's sometimes, but that doesn't make him a great player or even a hitter. Great hitters can run the bases to get the extra bases.</div>Speed is overrated.
 
Yea? So you're telling me that baserunning is not important then, right?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capt. Comeback @ Jun 30 2007, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yea? So you're telling me that baserunning is not important then, right?</div>I never said that.
 
ok, speed is important, and frank thomas is a future hall of famer. end of discussion. you need players like frank thomas, and you need players like jose reyes. done.
 
Speed is all overrated. On-Base Percentage is the most important factor, and Frank Thomas has it. These other tools, like speed, power, defense, etc., they're just an added bonus
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DevinHester23 @ Jul 2 2007, 06:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Speed is all overrated. On-Base Percentage is the most important factor, and Frank Thomas has it. These other tools, like speed, power, defense, etc., they're just an added bonus</div>Okay Billy Beane.
rolleyes.gif
On an aside, what the hell made him the Ultimate GM in people's eyes. Yeah, he's made the playoffs despite a subpar payroll for many years, but where are his rings? Every single year he gets kicked out in the First Round (Only made 1 ALCS, and lost it, during his time as GM). Maybe if he did place an emphasis on Speed, Power, and/or Defense then he would have gotten his rings by now.To me there's got to be some balance. I'd rather have players who are good in 3 or 4 of those Categories then a player who is one-sided in his Approach, even if he's great in that one side. I'd rather have a Grady Sizemore who can put up Good Numbers in All Four Areas then a Derrek Lee who is an On-Base Machine with no real Power or Speed anymore. (Sorry, he was the best example I could find).
 
The Big Hurt..... 500 HR's might be the old benchmark for the HOF, but the new one is 600. He gets there he's golden, but I don't see him getting there, and to me the story of baseball can be told without him. Which is really what any HOF to me is: Can the story be told without him?. Yes, that means Jose Canseco is in, and Craig Biggio is out. To me, that's the way it should be. Is Buddy Holly in the Rock and Roll HOF for those decades of records? No, he's in it because he's the Father of Modern Rock and Roll, and standardized what a Rock Band consisted of (2 Guitars, 1 Drummer, 1 Bass player). You don't put in Rafael Palmero or any of the accumulators, you put in guys who, if you were telling the story of Baseball to a child, you just couldn't leave out. Which is why I also think Shoeless Joe and the Blacksocks should have their own little place in the Hall. Whether Joe Jackson cheated or didn't is irrelevent. The Blacksocks are infamous, and you can't tell the story without them. I'd rather they get in than guys like Palmero, Biggio, and Frank Thomas. If they were to make a 2 hour movie about the complete history of baseball, they'd be on the cutting room floor, and not in the movie. That's all I'm saying. Canseco makes it in the movie. Mark McGwire makes in the movie. Sammy Sosa makes it in the movie. Frank Thomas? Most likely not.
 
If 600 is the new benchmark, well then damn. Not many people are getting in.
 
I'm not so sure it should be 600, but it shouldn't really be automatic at 500. If 600 were the new number, Sosa gets in and Griffery Jr. might not. He probably will regardless, but he will most likely hit 600 this year anyway.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brooksie5 @ Jul 2 2007, 10:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If 600 is the new benchmark, well then damn. Not many people are getting in.</div>I didn't mean you needed 600 to get in, I meant it's the new "automatic in" number. Such as it used to be that if you had 500 home runs or 3000 hits, you were golden no matter what. I don't think 500 makes you golden anymore.
 
Ahh, I see. I cannot say I disagree with you there. But 500 still isn't something not to be impressed with, and if you can keep your average pretty good and get a good chunk of RBI (which you should with 500 HR) you should be a lock.
 
I don't think that you can just judge on a HR hitter by just that. Sure he's racked up a good avg and OBP, but he isn't great all around like a true HoF'er should be. He can't play defense or run the bases at all. In my opinion, you can't put a DH in the HoF for hitting HR's and getting singles.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capt. Comeback @ Jul 3 2007, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't think that you can just judge on a HR hitter by just that. Sure he's racked up a good avg and OBP, but he isn't great all around like a true HoF'er should be. He can't play defense or run the bases at all. In my opinion, you can't put a DH in the HoF for hitting HR's and getting singles.</div>Weather you like it or not, being a DH is a part of the game now. Someone with a Career .300 Average, Career .400 OBP, and 500 Home Runs should be in the Hall of Fame, despite his flaws. We're talking about probably a Top 3 DH of all time (Edgar Martinez and David Ortiz probably being the other two), he should be in the Hall of Fame. Just my opinion.
 
Frank Thomas is by no way a one-dimensonal player. He got 2 MVPs, should have gotten a 3rd, he played 1st base until injuries made it hard for him to play the field. Frank Thomas is a good hitter. He has good plate discipline, good swing, hits for power. The most important thing at the plate is not making an out. Speed is overrated. Defense is not a big part of the game.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DevinHester23 @ Jul 4 2007, 09:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Speed is overrated. Defense is not a big part of the game.</div>Neither of those are true. Otherwise it was a good post. First of all, How can speed be overrated when the Average Fan doesn't think a whole lot about Speed to begin with? Secondly, Speed is definately a very good trait to have and not 'overrated'. A player with speed can not only Steal Bases, but they can Bunt for a Single, Stretch a Single into a Double, Stretch a Double into a Triple, Advance from First to Third on a Single, Make the opposing team rush throws leading to Errors, Have better Range on Defense, or in a player like Jose Reyes's case, even cause balks from Opposing Pitchers. Speed is a great weapon to have on your team as it has so many positive uses that can help you at the plate, on the bases, and in the Field.And Defense is very important as well....maybe not as important as Offense or Pitching are, but a Good Defensive Team can take numerous runs off the scoreboard. Good Defense takes away hits (Either from Great Range or the Highlight Reel type), Good Defense minimizes the number of Errors you cause, Good Defense can turn a higher percentage of Double Plays, Throw out Runners from the Outfield, Catch Opposing Players Stealing, Ect. It makes such a significant impact on the game that Statheads come up with stats like Fielding Independant Pitching to attempt to measure what a Pitchers ERA would be independant of Fielding.
 
Actually, after reading Moneyball, they show defense is only 5% of the game. I would rather have Jeter (a sucky fielder) over Izturis (a good fielder), b/c Jeter has a way better bat. And about speed, let's compare Big Donkey with Alfonso Soriano. Adam Dunn has a better OBP than Soriano. Soriano is the guy with better speed. Dunn avoids making outs more than Soriano. I want Dunn even though he is slow. I don't care for speed or defense. If a guy has it, great, but it's not a top priority. I'm not shoving it aside, but it's valued more than it should be
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DevinHester23 @ Jul 4 2007, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Actually, after reading Moneyball, they show defense is only 5% of the game. I would rather have Jeter (a sucky fielder) over Izturis (a good fielder), b/c Jeter has a way better bat. And about speed, let's compare Big Donkey with Alfonso Soriano. Adam Dunn has a better OBP than Soriano. Soriano is the guy with better speed. Dunn avoids making outs more than Soriano. I want Dunn even though he is slow. I don't care for speed or defense. If a guy has it, great, but it's not a top priority. I'm not shoving it aside, but it's valued more than it should be</div>Moneyball is nothing more then an Opinion. It is in no way fact, and I would argue that Defense is much more then just 5% of the game. And if you notice, in the part of Moneyball where they talk about how the league is 'adjusting to Billy Beane' and he has to evolve in order to stay ahead of the Curve, that they directly say that Oakland begins looking for other undervalued Skills, such as Defensive Capabilties. Hence why Oakland is Top 10 in both Errors (8th Least) and Fielding Percentage (8th Most). So clearly he doesn't think as little of it as you imply he does. As for your compairsons, yeah, I would take Jeter over Izturis as well....but that's because Jeter is a much, much better player to the point where that the compairison is simply not fair. Now if you wanted a fair comparison then try your Average Fielder in Derek Jeter to a Good Fielder like Jose Reyes all of a sudden you have a real debate on your hands. Personally, I would take Reyes as his Speed and Defense more then make up for the marginal difference in their hitting.For the Second Comparision. I think you're overestimating Adam Dunn. His On Base Percentage this season is .350, compaired to the .351 OBP of Alfonso Soriano. Granted, the Career OBP Averages of Dunn is signifcantly higher then Soriano, but Soriano has been much more patient over the last 2 years and Dunn has seen is On Base Percentage drop mainly due to his Home Run or Bust Philosophy. I also think you're neglecting the impact that Soriano's speed has when he is on the Bases. Like I already said, Speed can not only Steal Bases, but they can Bunt for a Single, Stretch a Single into a Double, Stretch a Double into a Triple, Advance from First to Third on a Single, Make the opposing team rush throws leading to Errors, and even cause Opposing Pitchers to Balk. A player with Speed like Soriano is much more likely to Come Around the Bases and Score a Run then a player like Adam Dunn is, and it's all about putting Runs on the Board, right?
 
Yes, it's all about scoring, but I would like to avoid making outs more. Getting a runner home from 2nd is not the top priority. Over the course of a season, I want the higher OBP guy. I can worry about that run with the next hitter. Over the course of the season, not making outs will create more scoring chances
 
Scoring and scoring chances are completely different things. A chance just means there is a possiblity that you have a runner to score. Soriano can score from 1st on a single sometimes, where Dunn may not even make it to 3rd. That's more of a help than giving an opportunity for the team. If Soriano scores, that doesn't put an out on the board does it?
 
I think that when all is said and done, the team with the most runs on the board will win the game.*feels proud of self for making such a profound statement*
 
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