$9 Federal Minimum Wage

[EL PRESIDENTE]

For or against?

On the pro side, more people will get a more livable wage. I guess. If you can call making $9 an hour living.

On the con side, a lot of these people are unskilled high school kids and what not. It will also cause prices for everyone to rise as businesses will pass the cost onto you.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

don't believe this shit about this helping out struggling families. Minimum age workers are young (under 25) and unmarried, likely with no families to support.

These are the stats on the minimum wage earners.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011.htm

Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly-paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 23 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of workers age 25 and over.

Never-married workers, who tend to be young, were more likely than married workers to earn the Federal minimum wage or less (about 9 percent versus about 2 percent).

More often, they are young and single or without families.

Part-time workers (persons who usually work less than 35 hours per week) were more likely than full-time workers to be paid the Federal minimum wage or less (about 13 percent versus about 2 percent).

7 times more likely to be part-time workers.

 

[porkchopexpress]

My feeling is, if you can't pay your workers a livable wage, then you don't deserve to be in business. Who cares if your workforce are young people working part time. If to make a profit, the equivalent of 1 full time worker (so 2 working 20 hours) earns less than a livable wage, then you need a different business model.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

My feeling is, if you can't pay your workers a livable wage, then you don't deserve to be in business. Who cares if your workforce are young people working part time. If to make a profit, the equivalent of 1 full time worker (so 2 working 20 hours) earns less than a livable wage, then you need a different business model.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need! :MARIS61:

 

[mook]

I never really got the under 25 argument. My nephew and niece are 15 and 17 and are ski instructors. They make minimum wage. Sure, they'll probably waste a little of what they earn, but they're saving for college/moving out on their own.

And really, it seems like my nephew and niece are the exceptions. Only 16% of all high school students have a job.

So what we're really talking about is a 20 year old either trying to live on his own, or trying to earn some cash while racking up massive college debt. Why is it ok that this kid gets paid dick?

Don't get me wrong. I understand there are sound economic arguments to debate minimum wage. I just don't find the "young person should get paid less" one convincing anymore.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

The thing is regarding this theory of paying a worker a "livable wage" is that eventually the costs WILL be too high and they will just eliminate workers, outsource or raise prices which will cause the livable wage to once again rise. Many of these young workers are already living off someone else and this money they make is nothing more than disposable income.

 

[magnifier661]

The thing is regarding this theory of paying a worker a "livable wage" is that eventually the costs WILL be too high and they will just eliminate workers, outsource or raise prices which will cause the livable wage to once again rise. Many of these young workers are already living off someone else and this money they make is nothing more than disposable income.

Yep this with be the outcome. What really needs to happen is increased minimum wages for those educated.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I never really got the under 25 argument. My nephew and niece are 15 and 17 and are ski instructors. They make minimum wage. Sure, they'll probably waste a little of what they earn, but they're saving for college/moving out on their own.

And really, it seems like my nephew and niece are the exceptions. Only 16% of all high school students have a job.

So what we're really talking about is a 20 year old either trying to live on his own, or trying to earn some cash while racking up massive college debt. Why is it ok that this kid gets paid dick?

Don't get me wrong. I understand there are sound economic arguments to debate minimum wage. I just don't find the "young person" one convincing anymore.

The point is that they are living and are supported by their parents. This isn't an issue of a "livable wage" since a high percentage of these folk are already being taken care of by others. They aren't supporting families. They aren't working a career. Minimum wage jobs are nothing more than temporary periods of employment, they are not meant to live on. Part time, low skilled and easily replaceable jobs...if you find yourself working at the minimum wage and hit a glass ceiling or see that as your future, the problem is likely with you and your life choices and not the system.

 

[jlprk]

Ideally, the wage would be lower for employees who live with their parents or husband, and in Southern states with low cost of living. But then employers would hire only employees like that to avoid full minimum wage. So partial minimum wage isn't practical.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Yep this with be the outcome. What really needs to happen is increased minimum wages for those educated.

That is a decent idea but how do you regulate it and would it work? If you have a 2 year degree you get at least 9 an hour? If you have a 4 year degree you get at least 11 an hour? Wouldn't that just make small companies hire people with no degree?

Edit: I see jlprk had some of the same concerns that I touched on above.

 

[drexlersdad]

welfare for people who dont work=less incentive to take shit jobs that you cant live on=wages naturally increase due to supply and demand

 

[mook]

Many of these young workers are already living off someone else and this money they make is nothing more than disposable income.

Many? How many? What percent?

My nephew and niece are "living off someone else," but they are also saving a lot of their money for college. And there's also the underemployed college grad living at home and working at Starbucks until the economy comes around.

In the 1980's and 1990's when I was growing up I remember having odd jobs in high school, and that the money was basically discretionary. Times have changed, though. Somebody "living off someone else" today isn't the same. A lot more people live with parents/exes/etc because they have to, and that minimum wage isn't discretionary but rather how they are building for the future.

 

[magnifier661]

That is a decent idea but how do you regulate it and would it work? If you have a 2 year degree you get at least 9 an hour. If you have a 4 year degree you get at least 11 and hour? Wouldn't that just make small companies hire people with no degree?

Edit: I see jlprk had some of the same concerns that I touched on above.

The model would be field education, although this goes against my opposition of unions. I actually think most unions are good, but some abuse it.

Good example is that certain fields like medical, commercial construction, or science need skilled workers. This goes against my republican views too. There would be certain minimum wages for certain professions. Someone in the field must provide the graduate papers to support the position.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

I think that I have been wrong about President Oboma, I believe that everyone deserves a chance, no matter where they are from, the color of their skin or who they love. Those thousand people that will never see a christmas, or a sunrise all deserve a vote. Congress should vote on this and all the other reasonable requests that have been put to them. It is not fair to burden collage graduates with the high costs of a collage education, its not fair that the costs of health care have risen so high under the past administrations. Now is the time to change the dirrection of those failed policies, we need to get the fortunate million and billionaires to pitch in their fair share, we need to invest in our children, in research, in the teachers and the unions and I want a pony and a red dress and a ...

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Many? How many? What percent?

My nephew and niece are "living off someone else," but they are also saving a lot of their money for college. And there's also the underemployed college grad living at home and working at Starbucks until the economy comes around.

In the 1980's and 1990's when I was growing up I remember having odd jobs in high school, and that the money was basically discretionary. Times have changed, though. Somebody "living off someone else" today isn't the same. A lot more people live with parents/exes/etc because they have to, and that minimum wage isn't discretionary but rather how they are building for the future.

Apparently 100% of the people you know making the minimum wage.

"Saving their money for college"- Like I said, it isn't a matter of life or death here, its a matter of having extra money around for college. Or buying whatever they want to buy if that's their choice. Its discretionary income.

"Living at home working at Starbucks"- Again, you pour coffee for a living, do you really think you can live on your own or hell, deserve to make enough money to live on your own for doing that? Again, this is a temporary (I hope) plan.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

welfare for people who dont work=less incentive to take shit jobs that you cant live on=wages naturally increase due to supply and demand

People on welfare are probably unqualified for shit jobs.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

The model would be field education, although this goes against my opposition of unions. I actually think most unions are good, but some abuse it.

Good example is that certain fields like medical, commercial construction, or science need skilled workers. This goes against my republican views too. There would be certain minimum wages for certain professions. Someone in the field must provide the graduate papers to support the position.

How does this apply to fast food joints, those who don't want to or can't go to college (get training), and things of that nature? I don't think this idea of increasing minimum wage is for medical, commercial (unless of the books grunt work - which also wouldn't apply) and science areas.

 

[donkiez]

Im all for making sure that people get paid a fair wage for the work they do. Mandating higher minimum wage however just expedites inflation and treats the symptom and not the cause. On the flip side though, inflation is so out of control that minimum wage needs to be increased to keep up. What really needs to be done is health care and education reform, getting those things in order would do a lot more to help poor people then putting an extra $20 in their pocket every week. Oh yea and fixing our contries monetary policy to keep inflation in check would help also...... sounds easy right?

 

[DaLincolnJones]

welfare for people who dont work=less incentive to take shit jobs that you cant live on=wages naturally increase due to supply and demand

there is some truth in this..If you take a family of four in this state, factor in all of the benifits, section eight housing, medical care, food stamps and energy assistence programs, it is equal to an job that pays 34k per year. That being said, where is the incentive to "get ahead" and go to work? Does this make the state and feds right? Is it just that in the state of washington half of the babys born are paid for by medicade? did you know that of those half on assintance, most are working ? Now the killer, guess what happens when obama care kicks in and they are to be taxed if they can not pay for health insurance? You got it, the too will no longer work...

 

[Denny Crane]

Seems to me we progressed our way out of being a manufacturing economy. Jobs we exported are perfectly done by low cost workers in 3rd world nations.

Let's bring some of those jobs back so our college grads can have fulfilling work to do. Pay em $9 an hour so they won't be welfare addicts for life.

Obama is really proud of this agenda. He's pitching his agenda today at a factory in N. Carolina.

Who's trying to get us back to the 1950s? Really.

 

[bluefrog]

Minimum wage levels in selected developed economies, in PPP$ and as a share of median full-time wage, 2010

SOURCE

 

[Eastoff]

there is some truth in this..If you take a family of four in this state, factor in all of the benifits, section eight housing, medical care, food stamps and energy assistence programs, it is equal to an job that pays 34k per year. That being said, where is the incentive to "get ahead" and go to work? Does this make the state and feds right? Is it just that in the state of washington half of the babys born are paid for by medicade? did you know that of those half on assintance, most are working ? Now the killer, guess what happens when obama care kicks in and they are to be taxed if they can not pay for health insurance? You got it, the too will no longer work...

Could I see the math for that first statement please? I have heard this kind of thing a lot, I just never thought to ask to see the numbers.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Usually I'm in favor of letting the market set the prevailing wage. Artificially inflating (or deflating) wages, prices, or anything else usually has nasty side-effects later on.

p.s. To Hell with corporate personhood too.

 

[Eastoff]

Usually I'm in favor of letting the market set the prevailing wage. Artificially inflating (or deflating) wages, prices, or anything else usually has nasty side-effects later on.

p.s. To Hell with corporate personhood too.

I think free market means exploiting the stupid people and eventually leading to near monarchies of the super wealthy. (see Heinz being bought out)

 

[BlazerWookee]

Minimum wage increases are a way for politicians to pay off unions since many (if not most) union pay scales are indexed to the minimum wage.

 

[PapaG]

Why not $20/hr for the minimum wage?

$50?

$1000

Pandering to low-information voters. It's what Obama does best.

 

[Eastoff]

Why not $20/hr for the minimum wage?

$50?

$1000

Pandering to low-information voters. It's what Obama does best.

Personally I've felt that minimum wage should be related to the cost of buying a car and a house. Something like minimum wage is at least twice the cost of a new car (it doesn't matter what new car). Or 5 times the minimum wage annual salary is the cost of a house.

 

[PapaG]

Personally I've felt that minimum wage should be related to the cost of buying a car and a house. Something like minimum wage is at least twice the cost of a new car (it doesn't matter what new car). Or 5 times the minimum wage annual salary is the cost of a house.

What are the economic benefits of such a minimum wage? What are the projected job losses under such a plan?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

$10 big macs :MARIS61:

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think free market means exploiting the stupid people and eventually leading to near monarchies of the super wealthy. (see Heinz being bought out)

Monopolies and oligopolies are bad (generally) for economies too (unless it's an industry or activity that has really high barriers to entry and needs massive economies of scale for efficiency), but typically what happens with an artificially high minimum wage is that those increased operating costs get passed on to the consumer, increasing inflation and suppressing hiring which keeps unemployment up. I'm certainly no dyed in the wool conservative, but the invisible hand (when left to operate mostly freely) has a funny knack for finding a point of equilibrium.