9 year old killed doing homework

[oldfisherman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
notice the lack of homicides or gun related deaths in Taiwan and the UK..both countries that don't allow firearms or ammo to be purchased ..the UK only allows hunting gear but no personal protection weaponry...the countries with the highest fatality rates are Honduras, Columbia, Brazil to name a few...weapons are everywhere

Your mention of Taiwan brings up a very interesting point.

Yes the USA has over 10 times as many murders using guns vs Taiwan (only about 5,000 old legal guns in private ownership).
However, the murder rate in Taiwan (3 per 100M) is very close to the USA (4.7 per 100M)
People are still murdered in Taiwan, but with other weapons than guns.

The UK started strict weapons control ownership starting in 1181, predating guns.
The first UK gun control was the 1508 act.
There have been many laws passed in the UK since then that have strictly controlled gun ownership over many centuries.

In contrast the first gun ownership control in the USA was in 1934. The National Firearms Act of 1934 regulating only fully automatic firearms like sub-machine guns

 

[riverman]

Your mention of Taiwan brings up a very interesting point.

Yes the USA has over 10 times as many murders using guns vs Taiwan (only about 5,000 old legal guns in private ownership).
However, the murder rate in Taiwan (3 per 100M) is very close to the USA (4.7 per 100M)
People are still be murdered in Taiwan, but with other weapons than guns.

The UK started strict weapons control ownership starting in 1181, predating guns.
The first UK gun control was the 1508 act.
There have been many laws passed in the UK since then that have strictly controlled gun ownership over many centuries.

In contrast the first gun ownership control in the USA was in 1934. The National Firearms Act of 1934 regulating only fully automatic firearms like sub-machine guns

interesting, but seeing as Taiwan has 23 million people and the US has over 300 mill the stat per 100 mill looks different. I lived in Taiwan for almost 20 years and most fatalities were student suicides over failing the national test for college entrance. Central Taiwan has the Bamboo Triad and those guys like machete's but I only saw one incident myself in two decades. I've seen a lot more here in 40 plus years. I was robbed in downtown Denver in the
70s by 3 kids each with a handgun..they got my 14 dollars and my bag of groceries. Unheard of in Taiwan Almost all the murders in Taiwan are Triad cases between rivals. Rare that innocents are targeted.

 

[oldfisherman]

interesting, but seeing as Taiwan has 23 million people and the US has over 300 mill the stat per 100 mill looks different. I lived in Taiwan for almost 20 years and most fatalities were student suicides over failing the national test for college entrance. Central Taiwan has the Bamboo Triad and those guys like machete's but I only saw one incident myself in two decades. I've seen a lot more here in 40 plus years. I was robbed in downtown Denver in the
70s by 3 kids each with a handgun..they got my 14 dollars and my bag of groceries. Unheard of in Taiwan Almost all the murders in Taiwan are Triad cases between rivals. Rare that innocents are targeted.

My experience in Taiwan is much less time than yours, only 10 days on business. But agree, I felt safe everywhere I went, even when sneaking out on my own in small back alleys with vendors, and I do not speak their language.

Truthfully, there are many parts of Mexico where I feel safer than here in Vancouver, WA.

The link below is what I used for the murder rates with all weapons by country. It will be easier for you to find Taiwan and the USA if you click on the rate arrow. This should put the countries in order. I am not sure if suicides are counted in these totals?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

 

[Natebishop3]

Instead of removing the guns from honest people, why not train more honest people how to properly handle guns?

Israel is in a very dangerous part of the world.
The number of firearm related deaths is 3 ½ times higher in the USA (3.55 per 100M) than in Israel (.94 per 100M).

Maybe this is why.
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All Israel soldiers must carry their weapons at all times, even when on leave.
View attachment 5678

All I see is a bunch of people walking around with mags out. What good is that gun if someone started shooting right then?

 

[oldfisherman]

All I see is a bunch of people walking around with mags out. What good is that gun if someone started shooting right then?

They have loaded magazines with them. Either in a pouch on the stock (you can see the pouch straps on some) or on their person somewhere such as a purse. It would not take them long to load and fire.

The off duty soldiers often carry their weapon unloaded in public, probably a safety rule to prevent accidents, but that is just my guess.

 

[riverman]

Hard to compare this country to Israel given the wars they've had with their neighbors for decades. When you're born and raised in a war zone, Armed soldiers in the streets is the norm. I'll pass on that place

 

[oldfisherman]

Hard to compare this country to Israel given the wars they've had with their neighbors for decades. When you're born and raised in a war zone, Armed soldiers in the streets is the norm. I'll pass on that place

Agree.

If you think about it, to be fair, comparing the issues and stats we have here in the USA with any other country does not make a lot of sense.

We have a special kind of wild critter to tame in the USA, with no experienced tamers. I wish I add a better answer, I don’t. I am just trying to make people think a little before making un-informed knee jerk opinions.

I have a bullet hole in the side of my house. The shot came from next door when it was a drug house. I spent two years without much sleep and in a constant state of fear and tension. It was not a good time. The only thing that made me feel safe in my home was my guns. I believe my reputation in the neighborhood of being a very good hunter and expert shooter kept the criminals that were flooding through next door off of my property.

 

[riverman]

I think if I were in any middle eastern hot zone seeing a gun wouldn't bother me as much as seeing a backpack

 

[MARIS61]

interesting, but seeing as Taiwan has 23 million people and the US has over 300 mill the stat per 100 mill looks different. I lived in Taiwan for almost 20 years and most fatalities were student suicides over failing the national test for college entrance. Central Taiwan has the Bamboo Triad and those guys like machete's but I only saw one incident myself in two decades. I've seen a lot more here in 40 plus years. I was robbed in downtown Denver in the
70s by 3 kids each with a handgun..they got my 14 dollars and my bag of groceries. Unheard of in Taiwan Almost all the murders in Taiwan are Triad cases between rivals. Rare that innocents are targeted.

Taiwan has, and uses, the death penalty. This eliminates most likely repeat offenders, more than accounting for the difference.

 

[riverman]

Taiwan has, and uses, the death penalty. This eliminates most likely repeat offenders, more than accounting for the difference.

What difference? We also use the death penalty as do Columbia, Brasil, El Salvadore and Honduras with much higher homicide rates

 

[MARIS61]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
notice the lack of homicides or gun related deaths in Taiwan and the UK..both countries that don't allow firearms or ammo to be purchased ..the UK only allows hunting gear but no personal protection weaponry...the countries with the highest fatality rates are Honduras, Columbia, Brazil to name a few...weapons are everywhere

http://www.examiner.com/article/def...wn-homes-by-violent-burglars-every-30-minutes

Overall, especially in the last few years, the UK has exploded in violent crime.

Meanwhile the US violent crimes have declined steadily for nearly 2 decades.

Pretty amazing since we're the biggest (only) melting pot in the world with the most ethnically diverse population while the UK is a white, waspy, homogenously sterile populace all basically from a single family tree.

 

[MARIS61]

A look at the bigger picture:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Map of the world by homicide rate according to latest UNODC data. See List of countries by intentional homicide rate.

Map of the world by homicide rate according to latest UNODC data. See List of countries by intentional homicide rate.
0–1
1–2
2–5
5–10
10–20
>20
Murder rate per 100,000 inhabitants in 2012.
Date 10 June 2014 - Date of upload of original file on the Commons.
Source UNODC data using File:BlankMap-World6.svg
Author Nikko2013. See User talk:Nikko2013.

 

[riverman]

http://www.examiner.com/article/def...wn-homes-by-violent-burglars-every-30-minutes

Overall, especially in the last few years, the UK has exploded in violent crime.

Meanwhile the US violent crimes have declined steadily for nearly 2 decades.

Pretty amazing since we're the biggest (only) melting pot in the world with the most ethnically diverse population while the UK is a white, waspy, homogenously sterile populace all basically from a single family tree.

the UK has more Pakistani and middle eastern immigrants as well as Carribean and African than you think

 

[riverman]

A look at the bigger picture:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Interesting link..I'm sure as hell never moving to Greenland

 

[MARIS61]

Another good link.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state#MRreg

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

http://www.examiner.com/article/def...wn-homes-by-violent-burglars-every-30-minutes

Overall, especially in the last few years, the UK has exploded in violent crime.

Meanwhile the US violent crimes have declined steadily for nearly 2 decades.

Pretty amazing since we're the biggest (only) melting pot in the world with the most ethnically diverse population while the UK is a white, waspy, homogenously sterile populace all basically from a single family tree.

Haha.

 

[magnifier661]

and increase accidents. More guns means more accidents, even if more people are properly trained.

You mean like the number 1 cause of accident related deaths in America? We must ban all cars from our highways!!!!!

 

[magnifier661]

interesting, but seeing as Taiwan has 23 million people and the US has over 300 mill the stat per 100 mill looks different. I lived in Taiwan for almost 20 years and most fatalities were student suicides over failing the national test for college entrance. Central Taiwan has the Bamboo Triad and those guys like machete's but I only saw one incident myself in two decades. I've seen a lot more here in 40 plus years. I was robbed in downtown Denver in the
70s by 3 kids each with a handgun..they got my 14 dollars and my bag of groceries. Unheard of in Taiwan Almost all the murders in Taiwan are Triad cases between rivals. Rare that innocents are targeted.

I've been to Taiwan about 5 times and I felt safe. But there is definitely violence there.

If we go to Mexico and see their strict gun control, yet their murder rate is much higher than ours, it tells you that gun control isn't working. What's happening there are the criminals use the guns, while unarmed law abiding citizens are victims

 

[riverman]

I've been to Taiwan about 5 times and I felt safe. But there is definitely violence there.

If we go to Mexico and see their strict gun control, yet their murder rate is much higher than ours, it tells you that gun control isn't working. What's happening there are the criminals use the guns, while unarmed law abiding citizens are victims

You can walk around Taipei drunk at 4 in the morning and nobody will ever bother you...safest of the 30 plus countries I've been to. Mexico is a frickin' civil war between cops and cartels..I don't care what their gun laws are...that is a violent country and the cops are criminals in many cases....not a good comparison mags..you can find safe zones in Mexico but it's a photo negative of Taiwan

 

[magnifier661]

You can walk around Taipei drunk at 4 in the morning and nobody will ever bother you...safest of the 30 plus countries I've been to. Mexico is a frickin' civil war between cops and cartels..I don't care what their gun laws are...that is a violent country and the cops are criminals in many cases....not a good comparison mags..you can find safe zones in Mexico but it's a photo negative of Taiwan

Okay Malaysia. I've been there about 10 times and they have strict drug (capital offense) and gun laws. The crime rate is pretty high there

 

[DaLincolnJones]

First off. This is sad.

Next, to refer to this in such PC terms is delusional. This was not a "stray bullet" that killed this child. The most basic logic dictates that five shots targeted at this house indicates a purpose and reason. This was a deliberate act of violence directed towards someone in this house. The person who pulled the trigger most likely knows the intended target. To twist this into a gun control issue is bullshit. The criminal is the skin wrapped pile of shit that pointed and fired this gun.

 

[dead247]

You think someone was trying to shoot the little girl? Shit man, only cops do that.

Oh really? Then I guess this didn't actually happen. Totally staged and fake.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/us/georgia-baby-killed/

"A boy approached me and told me he wanted my money, and I told him I didn't have any money. And he said, 'Give me your money or I'm going to kill you and I'm going to shoot your baby and kill your baby,' and I said, 'I don't have any money,' and 'Don't kill my baby.'"

The boy tried to grab her purse and opened fire when she said tried to tell him she had no money, West said, with the shot grazing her head. She said the boy then shot her in the leg.

West continued, "And then, all of a sudden, he walked over and he shot my baby in the face."

 

[donkiez]

You mean like the number 1 cause of accident related deaths in America? We must ban all cars from our highways!!!!!

I never said ban all guns or cars. Its a simple fact the more you have of either the more accidents there are, also the less trained people are the more accidents there are. Imagine if we allowed people to drive without a license or insurance, which is what we do with gun ownership. Your comparison is invalid.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Oh really? Then I guess this didn't actually happen. Totally staged and fake.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/us/georgia-baby-killed/

"A boy approached me and told me he wanted my money, and I told him I didn't have any money. And he said, 'Give me your money or I'm going to kill you and I'm going to shoot your baby and kill your baby,' and I said, 'I don't have any money,' and 'Don't kill my baby.'"

The boy tried to grab her purse and opened fire when she said tried to tell him she had no money, West said, with the shot grazing her head. She said the boy then shot her in the leg.

West continued, "And then, all of a sudden, he walked over and he shot my baby in the face."

Are you sure it wasn't a cop? Sounds like a cop.

 

[magnifier661]

I never said ban all guns or cars. Its a simple fact the more you have of either the more accidents there are, also the less trained people are the more accidents there are. Imagine if we allowed people to drive without a license or insurance, which is what we do with gun ownership. Your comparison is invalid.

Odd, there are more guns owned than cars. Your point about training reduces accidents, yet there are more people trained driving cars than guns. There have more accidents with vehicles than guns. There are more fatalities from cars than guns. Odd that you would say that's invalid....

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Oh really? Then I guess this didn't actually happen. Totally staged and fake.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/us/georgia-baby-killed/

"A boy approached me and told me he wanted my money, and I told him I didn't have any money. And he said, 'Give me your money or I'm going to kill you and I'm going to shoot your baby and kill your baby,' and I said, 'I don't have any money,' and 'Don't kill my baby.'"

The boy tried to grab her purse and opened fire when she said tried to tell him she had no money, West said, with the shot grazing her head. She said the boy then shot her in the leg.

West continued, "And then, all of a sudden, he walked over and he shot my baby in the face."

I don't imagine the CIA has invented torture I'd consider strong enough for these teenagers. I'd probably just want them run over slowly with a steam roller.

 

[riverman]

Odd, there are more guns owned than cars. Your point about training reduces accidents, yet there are more people trained driving cars than guns. There have more accidents with vehicles than guns. There are more fatalities from cars than guns. Odd that you would say that's invalid....

ridiculous mags...guns aren't bumper to bumper in rush hour traffic twice a day

 

[magnifier661]

ridiculous mags...guns aren't bumper to bumper in rush hour traffic twice a day

Fact is, cars kill people and usually because people abuse their privilege . Cars must be banned. I think I will talk about car control every time a drunk driver or someone texting injures someone.

 

[riverman]

Fact is, cars kill people and usually because people abuse their privilege . Cars must be banned. I think I will talk about car control every time a drunk driver or someone texting injures someone.

from what you said here, it sounds more like people kill people by abusing cell phones and alcohol

 

[magnifier661]

from what you said here, it sounds more like people kill people by abusing cell phones and alcohol

Now u are catching on! Silly to ban the car or guns!