9th circuit strikes down gay marriage ban

[MarAzul]

Back to topic - What will be the last state to legalize marriage equality?

There is some idea of a friendly pool with proceeds going to a pro-equality group. Of course, if the Supremes rule in favor in some pending case then all state barriers fall. Currently 49 states (plus DC and 8 Native nations) have either marriage equality OR pro equality rulings on hold pending appeal OR cases in court. So far no judges have ruled against equality; they just have not been able to find a Consitutional ground for separate and unequal rights for same sex couples.

In other related news, the National Organization for (straight only) Marriage issued a Memorial Day greeting to veterans, thanking them for fighting for straight only marriage. I am not joking. Who knew that all the wars this country fought for for preserving male/female only marriage?

The trends show you maybe entirely successful. It appears the trend is for people to not marry
which can't be good for the family as the base institution for caring of children in our country.
As stated in this article, "Children are at greater risk for adverse consequences when born to a single mother because the social, emotional, and financial resources available to the family may be limited."


http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/famsoc2.asp


It appears to me that we are well on the way to Gay's being the group that marries, for what ever reason. As a group you will own the word just as you do the word "Gay". I for one, can not see how this will help society, but perhaps you do.

Will you consider your efforts as completely successful when you own the word "Married"?

I watched Valorie somebody last night, a presidential advisor speaking of a new program being started by Obama to strengthen the family to help children in our Nation. I applauded the effort, I hope they find a way to be successful, and I might add, a rare occasion for me to agree with something Obama.

 

[Eastoff]

The trends show you maybe entirely successful. It appears the trend is for people to not marry
which can't be good for the family as the base institution for caring of children in our country.
As stated in this article, "Children are at greater risk for adverse consequences when born to a single mother because the social, emotional, and financial resources available to the family may be limited."


http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/famsoc2.asp


It appears to me that we are well on the way to Gay's being the group that marries, for what ever reason. As a group you will own the word just as you do the word "Gay". I for one, can not see how this will help society, but perhaps you do.

Will you consider your efforts as completely successful when you own the word "Married"?

I watched Valorie somebody last night, a presidential advisor speaking of a new program being started by Obama to strengthen the family to help children in our Nation. I applauded the effort, I hope they find a way to be successful, and I might add, a rare occasion for me to agree with something Obama.

I just wanted to jump in and comment that, a majority of studies (I will cite sources if I must) suggest children raised by a gay couple do just as well as a straight couple. But children raised by a single parent struggle the most.

 

[MarAzul]

Actually, I don't think the issue of Gays raising children or not is part of the issue. That aspect is pretty irrelevant since the number of Gay people raising children versus the vast majority of children is very small.

 

[Denny Crane]

http://www.infoplease.com/us/census/same-sex-households.html

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/10/adopted-children.aspx

 

[crandc]

Thanks for the sources, Denny.

Yeah, seems that "the gays" are the family values crowd these days.

Update: A couple in North Dakota filed a lawsuit against their anti-equality laws. Now all 50 states.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

So, bodyman, let me get this, er, straight. You would say "fuck off homo" to someone who pissed you off if you thought it would hurt their feelings? Because being compared to a gay person would upset them? But you are not antigay? Am I reading you right?

Would you also say "fuck off kike" or "fuck off n---" to a random person because you thought being compared to a Jew or an African-American would hurt their feelings?

(and what this has to do with marriage equality is getting beyond me)

I would say fuck off skinny if someone thought it sucked being skinny. Getting picked on by high school kids when I was 10 years old I learned how to figure out what hurt someone pretty quickly. If a fat girl with glasses said something rude she got "fuck off you 4 eyed cow"

See, simple. I don't think there is anything wrong with being fat or black or short or gay. Yet, if you almost hit me on the freeway because you are texting your friend about Survivor you will get the first thing that pops into my head. Not because of how I feel but how society feels.

If I tell someone to "go fuck yourself ***got" and they don't care then equality is winning.


I don't know what the last state to legalize gay marriage will be but they will be embarrassed about it. As they should.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[crandc]

More like about 10 moms.

The U.S. Supreme Court in 1967 ruled that laws prohibiting interracial marriage were unconstitutional. At that time, large majorities of all "races" opposed interracial marriage. Laws remained on the books of many states, although unenforced and illegal. It was not until 1991 that the last such state, Alabama, finally discarded their unconstitutional law banning interracial marriage. So, they get my vote for the last to legalize marriage equality.

 

[PapaG]

More like about 10 moms.

The U.S. Supreme Court in 1967 ruled that laws prohibiting interracial marriage were unconstitutional. At that time, large majorities of all "races" opposed interracial marriage. Laws remained on the books of many states, although unenforced and illegal. It was not until 1991 that the last such state, Alabama, finally discarded their unconstitutional law banning interracial marriage. So, they get my vote for the last to legalize marriage equality.

I've seen you post that you dated a man for some time. I know of two friends here in Portland who married a guy, had kids, divorced, dated a woman for years, and then got remarried to a man.

Exactly how does a black person get the chance to ignore their own genetic code by pretending to be a different color, based on how they feel about themselves that day, or in that point of their life?

Seems rather selfish of me of the LGBT movement to equate their suffering (which there is suffering, don't get me wrong) to the horrors of the black race in the history of the USA.

 

[crandc]

Well, first, Papa G, not all gay people are white. Ever hear of Michael Sam?

I dated, not a man, a boy. I'm talking high school. And we are/were (he, sadly, no longer is) both gay and that was not coincidence.

I don't think it is "the same". But I don't think you can rank oppression or discrimination - this is bad, this is less bad so less important. I agree with Martin Luther King that injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere. And that is why Coretta King, Mildred Loving, Maya Angelou and other civil rights veterans recognized the similarity between laws prohibiting interracial marriage and laws prohibiting same sex marriage. Even the same bible verses.

As to suffering, I know very few gay men who were not beat up, sometimes repeatedly. I know lesbians who were "correctively raped". I know gay kids whose families threw them out in the street when they were minors. I know gay kids who were locked up in juvenile detention (like my ex boyfriend) or in psychiatric institutions. I know lesbians who lived in fear of having their children taken away, and some did lose their children. I know people who lost jobs. I assure you most of us don't while away our days sipping drinks in the Castro.

Some light skinned African Americans "pass". Some blond blue eyed Jews spent the Nazi years "passing"; some had to engage in assault and persecution of other Jews to keep up the fiction. Living a lie your entire life is not freedom.

 

[Denny Crane]

Well, first, Papa G, not all gay people are white. Ever hear of Michael Sam?

I dated, not a man, a boy. I'm talking high school. And we are/were (he, sadly, no longer is) both gay and that was not coincidence.

I don't think it is "the same". But I don't think you can rank oppression or discrimination - this is bad, this is less bad so less important. I agree with Martin Luther King that injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere. And that is why Coretta King, Mildred Loving, Maya Angelou and other civil rights veterans recognized the similarity between laws prohibiting interracial marriage and laws prohibiting same sex marriage. Even the same bible verses.

As to suffering, I know very few gay men who were not beat up, sometimes repeatedly. I know lesbians who were "correctively raped". I know gay kids whose families threw them out in the street when they were minors. I know gay kids who were locked up in juvenile detention (like my ex boyfriend) or in psychiatric institutions. I know lesbians who lived in fear of having their children taken away, and some did lose their children. I know people who lost jobs. I assure you most of us don't while away our days sipping drinks in the Castro.

Some light skinned African Americans "pass". Some blond blue eyed Jews spent the Nazi years "passing"; some had to engage in assault and persecution of other Jews to keep up the fiction. Living a lie your entire life is not freedom.

Not only that, 1/2 the interracial couple was white, the other half black. The law affected both for the worse.

 

[MarAzul]

Well, first, Papa G, not all gay people are white. Ever hear of Michael Sam?

I dated, not a man, a boy. I'm talking high school. And we are/were (he, sadly, no longer is) both gay and that was not coincidence.

I don't think it is "the same". But I don't think you can rank oppression or discrimination - this is bad, this is less bad so less important. I agree with Martin Luther King that injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere. And that is why Coretta King, Mildred Loving, Maya Angelou and other civil rights veterans recognized the similarity between laws prohibiting interracial marriage and laws prohibiting same sex marriage. Even the same bible verses.

As to suffering, I know very few gay men who were not beat up, sometimes repeatedly. I know lesbians who were "correctively raped". I know gay kids whose families threw them out in the street when they were minors. I know gay kids who were locked up in juvenile detention (like my ex boyfriend) or in psychiatric institutions. I know lesbians who lived in fear of having their children taken away, and some did lose their children. I know people who lost jobs. I assure you most of us don't while away our days sipping drinks in the Castro.

Some light skinned African Americans "pass". Some blond blue eyed Jews spent the Nazi years "passing"; some had to engage in assault and persecution of other Jews to keep up the fiction. Living a lie your entire life is not freedom.

uh, this boy you dated, what do you mean, he 'was' gay but sadly no longer is? Do you mean people actually switch? Why sadness over him switching to standard wiring?

 

[crandc]

No, MarAzul, I mean he no longer is alive. Literally, he no longer is.

 

[MarAzul]

No, MarAzul, I mean he no longer is alive. Literally, he no longer is.

Ah!

 

[PapaG]

Well, first, Papa G, not all gay people are white. Ever hear of Michael Sam?.

Correct. Blacks can't pretend to be white. Gays can bounce back and forth between straight and gay.

It demeans the horrors that the black race has endured in the USA for gays to equate their struggles with the black population.

We agree.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

No, MarAzul, I mean he no longer is alive. Literally, he no longer is.

So, when gay people die, they become straight?

Just trying to understand here....

 

[crandc]

Correct. Blacks can't pretend to be white. Gays can bounce back and forth between straight and gay.

It demeans the horrors that the black race has endured in the USA for gays to equate their struggles with the black population.

We agree.

I have never in my life met a gay person who "bounces back and forth between straight and gay". Never. I have known gay people who were full of self-hatred and lied about themselves. That is not very bouncy.

No ones civil rights demeans another person.
We do not agree.

Gay people don't become straight when they die. Gay and straight people cease to exist (materially) when they die. They may live in memory.

Crap, are some people being deliberately insulting? Or does it just come naturally?

 

[PapaG]

I have never in my life met a gay person who "bounces back and forth between straight and gay". Never. I have known gay people who were full of self-hatred and lied about themselves. That is not very bouncy.

No ones civil rights demeans another person.
We do not agree.

Gay people don't become straight when they die. Gay and straight people cease to exist (materially) when they die. They may live in memory.

Crap, are some people being deliberately insulting? Or does it just come naturally?

Equating being gay with being black is deliberately insulting. If you don't understand what I'm saying, then I can't help you.

Jason Collins was able to pretend to be straight for years, to the point his own twin brother didn't know he was gay. Jason Collins was never once able to pretend to be a different race. If you can't understand that difference, then that's on you.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

So, other people's perception of one's struggle quantifies it somehow. Being 400 pounds and barely able to walk is lessened if you can pretend you are fit so nobody will notice?

That might be the most insane thing I have read in some time.

Gay people can suppress everything about themselves and even ruin someone else's life by pretending to be straight. Well, then fuck them for bitching huh?

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I wonder if people who persecute gays realize how much influence their own sexuality has on them? What won't straight men do to get laid?

Not much, I can say that.

 

[PapaG]

So, other people's perception of one's struggle quantifies it somehow. Being 400 pounds and barely able to walk is lessened if you can pretend you are fit so nobody will notice?

That might be the most insane thing I have read in some time.

Gay people can suppress everything about themselves and even ruin someone else's life by pretending to be straight. Well, then fuck them for bitching huh?

If you're 400 lbs., you can become 200 lbs. if you work hard enough. Are obese people also now on the victim list? Let me know if that's also the same as being black.

 

[PapaG]

I wonder if people who persecute gays realize how much influence their own sexuality has on them? What won't straight men do to get laid?

Not much, I can say that.

Who is persecuting gays?

 

[RR7]

Who is persecuting gays?

Nobody. They're treated with the utmost respect all over the country. Moreso than most, might I add.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

If you're 400 lbs., you can become 200 lbs. if you work hard enough. Are obese people also now on the victim list? Let me know if that's also the same as being black.

So gays can become straight if they work hard enough? I mean all they have to do is wish for it right? Unbelievable.

Being 400 lbs isn't good. I take it you think some skinny person woke up one day and decided to eat until they exploded. Some "choice" huh?

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Black people can just run into a bon fire and become so scarred nobody would know they were black to begin with. Sorry to all the ER doctors for giving blacks the idea so people will be nice to them.

 

[crandc]

Jason Collins was never straight. He was hiding. That is exactly what he said. He lied to himself and others. He hid. Like some Jews did in Europe. Like some light skinned African Americans. He was able to "pass". That is not liberation.

There are no documented cases of anyone really changing sexual orientation. (and of course even if someone wants to claim we can say la did da I'm straight and voila! we are, that would not be a reason to oppose marriage equality)

If I had time, energy & inclination (I don't) I could go through the OT forum and find post after post about "this nasty thing black people did but no one read about because yore librul media won't criticize the blacks" from the same person who is now the self-appointed arbiter of what is and is not offensive to the African-American community. And what gay people's lives are like.

Nothing wrong with being straight white male but being straight white male does not confer automatic expertise on the lives and feelings of the rest of us.

 

[MarAzul]

Jason Collins was never straight. He was hiding. That is exactly what he said. He lied to himself and others. He hid. Like some Jews did in Europe. Like some light skinned African Americans. He was able to "pass". That is not liberation.

There are no documented cases of anyone really changing sexual orientation. (and of course even if someone wants to claim we can say la did da I'm straight and voila! we are, that would not be a reason to oppose marriage equality)

If I had time, energy & inclination (I don't) I could go through the OT forum and find post after post about "this nasty thing black people did but no one read about because yore librul media won't criticize the blacks" from the same person who is now the self-appointed arbiter of what is and is not offensive to the African-American community. And what gay people's lives are like.

Nothing wrong with being straight white male but being straight white male does not confer automatic expertise on the lives and feelings of the rest of us.

Golly, that is very charitable of you to allow that being a straight white male is not wrong. You never did not answer about, will you feel you have won when the Gays own the word Married? When only the Gays Marry and the straight people forgo the status, will you feel successful? Will that be best for society to have the majority of Gay people marry and the majority of the straight parents not marry? Remember, society never did require Gay people to marry, they were always free to do what they will. Society only put the burden on straight people to conform, to provide for the product of their union.

 

[MarAzul]

Tick tick tick.

 

[crandc]

I will feel I have "won" when there is no discrimination against LGBT people in marriage, employment, housing, health care, legal system, etc. And there is absolutely no indication, based on marriage equality in the U.S. and in other countries, that same sex marriage has the slightest impact on opposite sex marriage. In no country or U.S. state that has marriage equality has there been a decline in straight couples getting married or an increase in straight couples getting divorced. The idea is totally absurd. How does Couple A getting married cause Couple B to not marry? For those of you who are married, when you decided to marry your spouse, you might have thought about compatibility, children, each other's family, finances, religion, all kinds of things before deciding. But did you for one second think that you are going to get married because gay people can't? Or that you won't get married because gay people can? When Meyers Leonard announced his engagement, he talked about being a lucky guy who found his dream girl, not that they might not marry after all because gay people are!

Gay people were never "free to marry". That is why we have to fight for that right.

In actual news, Illinois has started marrying same sex couples as of June 1.
In Florida, the state attorney general is fighting the suit launched to end the ban on same sex marriage, saying gay marriages are unstable and bad for families. She is on her third marriage. The first two ended in divorce after 5 and 2 1/2 years respectively. Her current marriage was conducted in the Cayman Islands as a non legally binding agreement. She has no children from any of her 3 marriages. Good thing we have such shining examples of stable marriage, right?

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I love that part about Florida and the Ho fighting gay marriage.

Hypocrite much??????