A heretical thought / And something about Orlando

[Natebishop3]

Is the best job the one that makes you the most visible or pays you the most money, or is the best job the one that pays you just enough to be comfortable but also affords you time to spend with your family and the ability to foster worthwhile relationships that the first two jobs might not? The answer to that isn't the same for everyone.

That's great... but that's assuming that both jobs can offer you the same thing. Portland can't offer Dame a chance to win, and winning is very important to him. He has said that multiple times. Dame might only play 3-4 more years. Guys start to face their own mortality when they realize that time is running out and they're not young anymore. Money can't buy Dame a chance at a ring. If he wants to have a shot at a ring, he might have to leave some of those comforts that you mentioned.

 

[PCmor7]

I don't have to be in Dame's head. He was very clear.

Actually, to think he was clear and absolute drawing from that shows a clear issue with your thought process. As I just mentioned, there's absolutely no room for nuance in your head.

How can you misunderstand his statements? Even his best friend, CJ McCollum, said that he thinks he will be traded.

Glad you asked, and thank you for the opportunity.

First, last I checked. CJ McCollum is not Damian Lillard. Maybe you know something I don't, but I don't think they are one and the same and I don't think they share the same brain.

Second, am I mistaken or did CJ say he didn't speak to Dame about this and it only was his opinion?

I mean, I just think you're getting argumentative in a weird way here if you can't read your post and see the problems with it. You're literally doing everything I've been pointing out that undermines your posts -- half-truths, lack of nuance, lack of open-mindedness, lack of a real-world view.

 

[PCmor7]

Because it all seems very simple to me.

That's a big part of your problem. It's simple to YOU. I've explained why multiple times. You keep avoiding that and just saying "It is because I say it is." That's ridiculous.

Dame has made some very clear statements about what he wants. He's almost 33 years old. He only has a few years left where he's playing at this level. If he wants to go for it, as he said, it's unlikely he will be able to go for it here.

I'm positive that Dame will retire in Portland when he's all done playing. So I'm not sure what actions you think are so contrary to what Dame has actually said about the situation.

Not sure how many times I'm going to have to say this and at this point I think maybe you see where you got off the rails and just don't want to face it, but Damian Lillard saying he wants something doesn't mean it's the only thing or things he wants and it doesn't mean it even is THE thing he wants most when choices have to be made. He's said and done a lot that don't match your limited narrative, too, but you are avoiding addressing those things like the plague for what I suspect are pretty obvious reasons.

I think conclusions can be drawn by other posters by how you completely avoided my question, too.

 

[Natebishop3]

Actually, to think he was clear and absolute drawing from that shows a clear issue with your thought process. As I just mentioned, there's absolutely no room for nuance in your head.

These are clear statements.

"I'm just not interested in that."

"I don't have much of an appetite"

"If the route is to do that, well that's not my route"

"I'm going to give them every opportunity to give me... give us what we need to have a true chance to compete for that. If that's something that isn't possible, or something that can't get done, then we got a different conversation to be had."

There's plenty of room for nuance in some cases, but Dame made some very clear statements about what he wants. And when he was asked to expand on this, he repeated multiple times that he felt that he was very clear on his statements. If you choose to not take the man at his own word, I guess that's up to you.

 

[blazerkor]

I think it's about a coin flip right now. Joe might see Scoot and Shaedon as the future of this franchise. He might have deals that would get him quality young prospects and picks for Dame, Ant and Nurk. He might also have some deals in the works that turn Ant, pick 3 and filler into a second star for Dame. It's a crazy time and all we can do is wait and see.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Totally, but to get from where we are now as a roster, to a point where we have a punchers chance is..... quite a ways.

Quite a ways? I am not sure that is true. Like you, I watched almost every playoff game this postseason and by far the best team in the West is Denver, a team that plays 8 guys and for once is finally healthy. Will that happen two years in a row? The Lakers and Warriors are getting older. The Suns got older by adding Durant and lost depth. Things could easily go sideways in Memphis. Dallas got worse. Minnesota does not scare me and until NO stays healthy I am unsure of them.

Sacramento is the one team that seems to have turned the corner but are they scary good? OKC and the Jazz can all move up but again....not dominant.

So based on that I find myself thinking that one good starting forward can give Dame his fighting chance. (plus a MLE vet off the bench)
Now that can also be said of multiple teams as one player can make a difference. Trades and FA can change things so it might be different in October.

 

[Natebishop3]

TYou keep avoiding that and just saying "It is because I say it is." That's ridiculous.

It's not because I say it is. It's because Dame says it is. I'm quoting the man directly. You just refuse to take him at his word.

I think conclusions can be drawn by other posters by how you completely avoided my question, too.

Which question? "Have you ever wanted more than one thing, or has your entire life been driven by absolutes?" If I were to come out and say something as specific as what Dame said, I would 100% follow through because he has fully thought out his feelings. He even said that he's not being emotional about it.

If I told my wife that I wanted kids, and she kept putting it off, and I got the point where it was shit or get off the pot, I would follow through. Is that what you want?

 

[PCmor7]

That's great... but that's assuming that both jobs can offer you the same thing. Portland can't offer Dame a chance to win, and winning is very important to him. He has said that multiple times. Dame might only play 3-4 more years. Guys start to face their own mortality when they realize that time is running out and they're not young anymore. Money can't buy Dame a chance at a ring. If he wants to have a shot at a ring, he might have to leave some of those comforts that you mentioned.

It's actually doing the exact opposite, and I'm not sure how you even arrived at that. I gave you three jobs that have three different points of appeal.

I feel like I am talking to a wall.

Yes, winning is very important to Dame. We've not been in disagreement on that, so for you to continue to post that is counter-productive.

The question is: Is it the MOST important thing to Damian Lillard?

You are making the assumption that it is because he was asked specific questions about what he would like. Then you added 1 and 1 and arrived at 7,432,893 because, I would guess, if you were in Dame's position, that'd be what was most important to you.

One can have multiple things be important to them and they can express one but not the other when they are specifically asked about the one, but that doesn't mean the other isn't even more important.

 

[Natebishop3]

Not sure how many times I'm going to have to say this and at this point I think maybe you see where you got off the rails and just don't want to face it, but Damian Lillard saying he wants something doesn't mean it's the only thing or things he wants and it doesn't mean it even is THE thing he wants most when choices have to be made. He's said and done a lot that don't match your limited narrative, too, but you are avoiding addressing those things like the plague for what I suspect are pretty obvious reasons.

Because everything you're saying is based on your own opinions, while I'm quoting actual statements from Dame on his feelings. You're arguing that Dame might have other things on his mind, but you don't have any actual evidence that this is the case. You're talking about warm and fuzzies.

 

[PCmor7]

These are clear statements.

"I'm just not interested in that."

"I don't have much of an appetite"

"If the route is to do that, well that's not my route"

"I'm going to give them every opportunity to give me... give us what we need to have a true chance to compete for that. If that's something that isn't possible, or something that can't get done, then we got a different conversation to be had."

There's plenty of room for nuance in some cases, but Dame made some very clear statements about what he wants. And when he was asked to expand on this, he repeated multiple times that he felt that he was very clear on his statements. If you choose to not take the man at his own word, I guess that's up to you.

You're a broken record. Now you're back to taking statements out of context.

I've addressed all of these, Nate. None of them make the point you think they do except in your own head. They don't exclude the possibilities that he has other wants, too, that might be even bigger priorities.

Good lord, man, read. You're not even being pedantic. This is infantile. You just quote me on stuff and respond with things that don't even make your point. You're basically spamming the board now.

 

[Natebishop3]

The question is: Is it the MOST important thing to Damian Lillard?

So do you think Dame is lying? The things he has said are lies. He's just posturing and he'll back down if the Blazers call his bluff? Does that sound at all like Damian Lillard?

 

[Natebishop3]

You're a broken record. Now you're back to taking statements out of context.

I've addressed all of these, Nate. None of them make the point you think they do except in your own head. They don't exclude the possibilities that he has other wants, too, that might be even bigger priorities.

Good lord, man, read. You're not even being pedantic. This is infantile. You just quote me on stuff and respond with things that don't even make your point. You're basically spamming the board now.

I'm just giving my thoughts man. You need to calm down.

I have been consistent in my train of thought.

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm just giving my thoughts man. You need to calm down.

I have been consistent in my train of thought.

interesting....you consider your thinking as a train

I consider my thinking as in a recliner with beer in one hand, a remote in the other, and a coma a strong possibility

choo choo!

 

[PCmor7]

It's not because I say it is. It's because Dame says it is. I'm quoting the man directly. You just refuse to take him at his word.

You're quoting him answering a specific question that was going to give you a specific answer but not necessarily or even likely a complete, accurate one. And, again, the absolutes you see in his answers are only there because YOU want to see that.

Which question? "Have you ever wanted more than one thing, or has your entire life been driven by absolutes?" If I were to come out and say something as specific as what Dame said, I would 100% follow through because he has fully thought out his feelings. He even said that he's not being emotional about it.

If I told my wife that I wanted kids, and she kept putting it off, and I got the point where it was shit or get off the pot, I would follow through. Is that what you want?

As I said above, Dame was answering a specific question. It wasn't like he was asked a broad question and went there on his own and essentially put a gun to the team's head. His answers don't do anything to indicate he's going to force a trade if Cronin doesn't trade the third pick for a vet. They don't say he's cemented to a stance. They say it's something he'd like. They don't eliminate the possibility that there are other avenues that he would accept because winning a championship somewhere supercedes his desire to compete for a championship in Portland.

And, no, that's not the answer I was looking for, though it's kind of disappointingly what I expected from the path you've chosen to take this discussion. The one thing your response does show pretty clearly, though, is that you have a problem seeing things in more than two ways, that you struggle with analogy and that you get overly emotional about things that you only know a small amount about.

 

[Natebishop3]

interesting....you consider your thinking as a train

I consider my thinking as in a recliner with beer in one hand, a remote in the other, and a coma a strong possibility

choo choo!

 

[PCmor7]

I'm just giving my thoughts man. You need to calm down.

I have been consistent in my train of thought.

There is no train your thought, Nate. It's just a spot. You are stuck in a spot that you can't defend or define. It lacks reason, insight or any kind of broad or reasonable thinking, and, you just repeat it over and over and over as if that's going to make it true in your head.

 

[Natebishop3]

You're quoting him answering a specific question that was going to give you a specific answer but not necessarily or even likely a complete, accurate one. And, again, the absolutes you see in his answers are only there because YOU want to see that.



As I said above, Dame was answering a specific question. It wasn't like he was asked a broad question and went there on his own and essentially put a gun to the team's head. His answers don't do anything to indicate he's going to force a trade if Cronin doesn't trade the third pick for a vet. They don't say he's cemented to a stance. They say it's something he'd like. They don't eliminate the possibility that there are other avenues that he would accept because winning a championship somewhere supercedes his desire to compete for a championship in Portland.

And, no, that's not the answer I was looking for, though it's kind of disappointingly what I expected from the path you've chosen to take this discussion. The one thing your response does show pretty clearly, though, is that you have a problem seeing things in more than two ways, that you struggle with analogy and that you get overly emotional about things that you only know a small amount about.

That is YOUR interpretation. You said I was absolutely wrong, but you only THINK I'm wrong. You have literally zero evidence to disprove my point. And that has been my point from the beginning. The only factual evidence we have is actual comments from Dame. Everything else you're saying is conjecture. You have nothing factual to go off of. So all we can do is speculate, and I'm fine debating speculation, but you came out and just said flatly that I'm wrong. Well..... you don't know that.

 

[Natebishop3]

There is no train your thought, Nate. It's just a spot. You are stuck in a spot that you can't defend or define. It lacks reason, insight or any kind of broad or reasonable thinking, and, you just repeat it over and over and over as if that's going to make it true in your head.

You don't have insight. You have speculation. You said that there might be other things that are more important to Dame than winning, but you don't have any evidence of that. I have said multiple times in multiple places that Dame is getting older and someone's point of view can change when they age. So when Dame comes out and says something, I tend to listen because Dame is not someone to blow smoke. He doesn't talk just to talk. He is very big on loyalty and following through.

I have defended. I have defined. Just because you don't agree with my reasoning doesn't mean there isn't any.

Give me one shred of evidence supporting your position. Just one.

 

[PCmor7]

So do you think Dame is lying? The things he has said are lies. He's just posturing and he'll back down if the Blazers call his bluff? Does that sound at all like Damian Lillard?

That's either intellectually dishonest on your part or just a sign of incredible blindness.

I've said multiple times that Dame can say all of those things but they don't present the full picture you are trying to present them as.

It's neither posturing or pressuring the Blazers. It was a direct answer to a specific question that didn't address a lot of other related issues.

You've chosen for whatever reason to pretend that's not the case, now you just keep spamming the board repeating the same posts that aren't even touching on the stuff I brought up.

I'm disappointed in you, actually. You've gotten me to post multiple times in different ways where your thought process is flawed. At first, I presumed maybe you just missed it, but now it looks like you just enjoy having people read you covering your ears like a 3-year-old yelling the same thing over and over and over so you don't have to eat your vegetables. But, I guess not thinking and getting overly emotional make a lot of people resort to playing ignorance. That's your look of choice, so be it.

 

[Natebishop3]

It's neither posturing or pressuring the Blazers. It was a direct answer to a specific question that didn't address a lot of other related issues.

Such as?

You've chosen for whatever reason to pretend that's not the case, now you just keep spamming the board repeating the same posts that aren't even touching on the stuff I brought up.

Such as?

I'm disappointed in you, actually. You've gotten me to post multiple times in different ways where your thought process is flawed. At first, I presumed maybe you just missed it, but now it looks like you just enjoy having people read you covering your ears like a 3-year-old yelling the same thing over and over and over so you don't have to eat your vegetables. But, I guess not thinking and getting overly emotional make a lot of people resort to playing ignorance. That's your look of choice, so be it.

You post a lot of white noise. I debate the topics. You seem to like to try to pull it out and talk about the meta of the discussion. I don't care if you think I'm infantile. I think you have yet to present even one reasonable argument.

 

[Natebishop3]

Well, the difference is that one of us actually is looking at a full picture while the other is taking bits and pieces, keeping what fits his narrative and discarding what doesn't.

What bits and pieces did I discard?

Usually, a person that's trying to portray an accurate picture of what's happening wouldn't go so far as to tell his opposition that they do have a point in what they are saying but that they are missing or deliberately excluding vital information in pursuit of a narrative.

What vital information did I exclude?

I put more stock in Dame's actions than his words

What actions?

You also completely ignored the bigger point -- and, not surprisingly, the 2,000-pound gorilla that crushes your entire position -- that Dame can say all of that and it doesn't exclude other possibilities (which, BTW, are more strongly evidenced in his actions and other comments that you avoid) or, more importantly, that Dame can want exactly what you say he wants but at the end of the day value other things even more than that.

Such as? What other things does Dame value more than winning? And how do you know that he values them? I want proof.

 

[PCmor7]

That is YOUR interpretation. You said I was absolutely wrong, but you only THINK I'm wrong.

Ahh, so that's it. Your feelings got hurt.

You have literally zero evidence to disprove my point. And that has been my point from the beginning. The only factual evidence we have is actual comments from Dame. Everything else you're saying is conjecture. You have nothing factual to go off of. So all we can do is speculate, and I'm fine debating speculation, but you came out and just said flatly that I'm wrong. Well..... you don't know that.

Is Damian Lillard still a Trail Blazer? Has he requested a trade? Has Lillard ever said something halfway? Was he answering specific or general questions? Has Dame said over and over that he wants to finish his career in Portland? Has he built a big home in Portland? Has he made businesses in Portland?

All those things are evidence, Nate.

Of course, the most interesting thing in your post is now you're admitting interpretation, which, by extension, finally is a tacit admission that you only are interpreting Dame's comments.

The difference is that you're interpreting them in a very narrow way that 1) completely ignores Dame's history, his personal character, and the potential that Damian Lillard, like pretty much every person I've ever met, has more than one aspiration that might become difficult to achieve because of his other objectives and 2) you KNOW what is most important to him by (checks notes) a handful of random, sometimes partial, and out-of-context quotes.

For you to be right, everything you assume about Dame and what he said would have to be exactly as you're presenting it. You'd have to ignore a lot of other things he's said and done along with the basic differences in the motivations of human beings. It's not completely impossible, it's just unlikely in the most extreme of extremes.

 

[Natebishop3]

Ahh, so that's it. Your feelings got hurt.



Is Damian Lillard still a Trail Blazer? Has he requested a trade? Has Lillard ever said something halfway? Was he answering specific or general questions? Has Dame said over and over that he wants to finish his career in Portland? Has he built a big home in Portland? Has he made businesses in Portland?

All those things are evidence, Nate.

Of course, the most interesting thing in your post is now you're admitting interpretation, which, by extension, finally is a tacit admission that you only are interpreting Dame's comments.

The difference is that you're interpreting them in a very narrow way that 1) completely ignores Dame's history, his personal character, and the potential that Damian Lillard, like pretty much every person I've ever met, has more than one aspiration that might become difficult to achieve because of his other objectives and 2) you KNOW what is most important to him by (checks notes) a handful of random, sometimes partial, and out-of-context quotes.

For you to be right, everything you assume about Dame and what he said would have to be exactly as you're presenting it. You'd have to ignore a lot of other things he's said and done along with the basic differences in the motivations of human beings. It's not completely impossible, it's just unlikely in the most extreme of extremes.

He can't be traded until July, so requesting a trade is irrelevant right now.

We haven't had the draft.

We haven't had free agency.

Why would Dame request a trade? If the request was going to come, it would be in a couple months. Your lack of evidence is not evidence in itself.

He said that he doesn't want another 19 year old, he wants to go for it, and he thinks we have the assets to go get pieces to help us win. He still feels that way. We don't know yet if Joe Cronin agrees with him, or if the Blazers will just take the pick and continue to straddle two timelines. We haven't gotten to the put-up-or-shut-up moment for Dame yet. If those are your "actions," you're a little early.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I agreed with that sentence until the last 9 letters

Lol. I'm assuming Simons would be traded for a better fit at SOME point. But point taken.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Depends on the team. Obviously Dame said that he would prefer Miami or Brooklyn, but I still love the idea of trading him to Boston for Brown and then sending Brown to a team like OKC or Houston for picks and young players.

I don't see Boston doing that deal. It cuts their championship windows way down. And I don't see Dame wanting anything to do with that deal either. If he were going to play with Brown and Tatum I could see it being somewhat appealing to him... But that's not going to happen.

Worse in what way? Would trading Dame mean that we would lose more games for the foreseeable future? Probably. I guess it depends on how fast the young guys developed, and what their ceiling is. Boston was able to turn it around immediately with Brown and Tatum. To me, building towards a championship is the only path I'm interested in, and I think we have reached the ceiling of what this team can do with Dame. That is unless we can add another legitimate star.

I think we're more likely to add a star to Dame than we are to add 2 stars by trading Dame.

We already did sacrifice our future for "legit valued vets." We got RoCo and Norm and Nance. We don't need legit valued vets. We need another legit star or stars.

RoCo wasn't good at what we brought him here to do. Norm was a horrible fit from the start. That's not legit value, IMO. That's what we refer to as a CF. And we have much better assets to send out than we had when we made those deals.

 

[Phatguysrule]

But that's not what he has been saying. He has said repeatedly that he wants the team to try to contend, and that might not be possible.

So for his career, it makes very little sense to stay in Portland.

He said he wants to be top 4 in the conference. That's within our reach this coming season, IMO, depending on what Cronin can put together.

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't see Boston doing that deal. It cuts their championship windows way down. And I don't see Dame wanting anything to do with that deal either. If he were going to play with Brown and Tatum I could see it being somewhat appealing to him... But that's not going to happen.

I don't think Boston could afford Dame/Brown/Tatum. That contract that Brown wants will be insane. But I would think that pairing Dame and Tatum would give them a very legit chance at a ring.

I think we're more likely to add a star to Dame than we are to add 2 stars by trading Dame.

Depends on the star I guess. And unfortunately all stars are not created equal.

RoCo wasn't good at what we brought him here to do. Norm was a horrible fit from the start. That's not legit value, IMO. That's what we refer to as a CF. And we have much better assets to send out than we had when we made those deals.

RoCo was pretty good his first year. He fell off a cliff his second season. Norm was played out of position at small forward. Nance was never healthy. But regardless of whether those guys worked out, we PAID for them like they were going to work out.

 

[Natebishop3]

He said he wants to be top 4 in the conference. That's within our reach this coming season, IMO, depending on what Cronin can put together.

Who are your current top 4 and what would it take to get into that top 4? Here is the standings at the end of the season.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I don't think Boston could afford Dame/Brown/Tatum. That contract that Brown wants will be insane. But I would think that pairing Dame and Tatum would give them a very legit chance at a ring.

I agree about Boston not being able to get there. I'm not sure it gets Boston closer than bringing legit 4 here gets us.

Depends on the star I guess. And unfortunately all stars are not created equal.


RoCo was pretty good his first year. He fell off a cliff his second season. Norm was played out of position at small forward. Nance was never healthy. But regardless of whether those guys worked out, we PAID for them like they were going to work out.

And nobody is advocating for bringing in guys to play out of position or who are injury prone. We have better assets to offer and a different GM now (who presumably isn't married to an imbalanced roster).

 

[STOMP]

You've been done since very early on when you started making arguments against positions I haven't advocated for.

lol, going out on a cheap shot, classy! Enjoy living in pretend land fan boy

STOMP