A new plan to get Rubio

[Minstrel]

What's wrong with that? We're 4 years away as constructed.

We? Aren't you a Celtics fan? Are you also a Kings fan?

Merely curious.

 

[JE]

We? Aren't you a Celtics fan? Are you also a Kings fan?

Merely curious.

Yes sir. Not rabid or anything though, its kind of hard to follow a non-LA Cali team while living in bumfuck New Hampshire.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Yes sir. Not rabid or anything though, its kind of hard to follow a non-LA Cali team while living in bumfuck New Hampshire.

I kind of quietly root for the Kings too as my second favorite team. I grew to really like them back when they had Doug Christie, Vlade, et al., it didn't hurt that they had Rick Adelman and Geoff Petrie (former Blazers) running things.

 

[hasoos]

Let's be real here. I remember all sorts of people tripping over themselves to gush about Jianlian, saying Yi could be the next Dirk Nowitski and were absolutely in love with his potential. If Rubio was in last year's (deep) draft do you really think he'd be projected to go as high as second overall? He'd probably be in the top ten, but maybe just barely.

Not to mention Bargiani.......who was the first "next Dirk Nowitzki".

 

[KingSpeed]

And how did that work out?

They got a better player in Richard Jefferson.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Let's be real here. I remember all sorts of people tripping over themselves to gush about Jianlian, saying Yi could be the next Dirk Nowitski and were absolutely in love with his potential.

You mean Chad "Pavel Podkolzine will be better than Shaq" Ford? Meanwhile Bill Simmons actually calls one right:

I love Yi Jianlian -- he doesn't have the balls to work out against anyone, he lied about his age and he'll only accept four possible NBA destinations. This guy sounds like a real prize.

If Rubio was in last year's (deep) draft do you really think he'd be projected to go as high as second overall? He'd probably be in the top ten, but maybe just barely.

Well, it wouldn't have been legal, because he would've been 17. Think about that: the fact that his name would even come up at that age is amazing enough. And in fact, he's better (more valuable) than OJ Mayo (and almost certainly plays better defense). There were all kinds of questions about Mayo. I bet Miami (who weren't pleased to settle for Beasley) would've strongly considered him at 2. Looking at last year's draft there's a lot of solid players but the only likely stars I see are Rose and maybe Randolph. Who knows - this draft might turn out better.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Not to mention Bargiani.......who was the first "next Dirk Nowitzki".

No, that would be Nikoloz Tskitishvili. (And besides, it's Bargnani.)

I love people who act like every non-American will be a bust because of Euro-busts of the past. They conveniently forget about Pau Gasol, Tony Parker, pretty much the entire Argentine team (who were PLAYING in Europe), Rudy Fernandez, Nicolas Batum, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Arvydas Sabonis, etc, etc. I'm sure at least as high a % of American College players have been busts. For every player in this draft coming out of the NCAA I can name at least one player with identical or better college credentials who was a complete bust. Wouldn't that be tedious?

 

[tim]

You guys have been good, very good at nabbing good draft picks, but this isn't going to happen.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

If you were Micheal Heisley or Chris Wallace and somebody came knocking with that deal (and it wasn't Mitch Kupchak on the line) how long would it take for you to hang up the phone?

This is the same guy who did the Pau Gasol "trade", right? To be one of those people I would need to be pithed first. (It might be worth it for Heisley's money...)

 

[Nikolokolus]

This is the same guy who did the Pau Gasol "trade", right? To be one of those people I would need to be pithed first. (It might be worth it for Heisley's money...)

The trouble is Jerry West isn't a former Blazer, so it's tough to steal a player when you don't have your former GM "The Logo" steering his protege, Wallace, towards the "best" deal. At best we've got Lionel Hollins or Damon Stoudamire to help give us some pull.

 

[Minstrel]

The trouble is Jerry West isn't a former Blazer, so it's tough to steal a player when you don't have your former GM "The Logo" steering his protege, Wallace, towards the "best" deal.

You really think West was trying to steer Wallace to do a bad deal on the Lakers behalf and Wallace, someone trying to establish his career, would do a bad deal just to please his former mentor?

I find that extremely unlikely.

 

[Nikolokolus]

You really think West was trying to steer Wallace to do a bad deal on the Lakers behalf and Wallace, someone trying to establish his career, would do a bad deal just to please his former mentor?

I find that extremely unlikely.

I was saying it slightly tongue in cheek, but ...

I know it sounds a little "tin foil hat" ish, but when something that stupid or lopsided happens, you've got to at least wonder how something like that couldn't have been matched or bettered by about 20 teams in the league. I'm not claiming conspiracy, but I'll admit it did really make me question just how something like that goes down.

 

[Minstrel]

I was saying it slightly tongue in cheek, but ...

I know it sounds a little "tin foil hat" ish, but when something that stupid or lopsided happens, you've got to at least wonder how something like that couldn't have been matched or bettered by about 20 teams in the league. I'm not claiming conspiracy, but I'll admit it did really make me question just how something like that goes down.

Yeah, I didn't think it was a good deal, but the other rumoured deals at the time were pretty crap too. Like the Bulls, it was something like Tyrus Thomas (before this "breakout" season), Nocioni and other flotsam.

For some reason, the level of interest on Pau Gasol was tepid. It is odd that Wallace pulled the plug on the Gasol market a month early or so. But I don't think the deal was so legendarily bad as to imply some funny business. There have been much worse deals in NBA history.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

If the Grizzlies can't get Rubio to come over, and everyone knows they can't (and you can bet his agent would make it common knowledge) then how much leverage would they have? I can't really see Heisley signing off on getting nothing in return. That's the first point. The second is that $3M means a lot to crappy-ass outfits like Memphis with cheap-ass owners like Heisley. The third is that it always turns out that it doesn't cost that much to move up even a few places in the draft, or certainly not as much as draft fanboys always imagine. We moved up from 4 to 2 by giving up Khryapa. Now I actually rated Khryapa, and he's a star in Europe where he can play PF, but nobody nobody who followed the Blazers on boards like this would've thought it would take that little. And what did we give up to move from 7 (Randy Foye) to 6 (Brandon Roy)? Wasn't it just cash?
Finally, we don't know how our players are viewed by other teams. I bet you that there are people round the league who really rate Sergio. Hell, people on this board think he's on a par with Rubio, so getting him AND the #3 pick for Rubio is like two-for-one!

 

[Sug]

This is how the Yi thing worked out...

 

[BrianFromWA]

I'm really trying, but off the top of my head I can't think of many that were THAT panned at the time of the trade. I mean, yeah...Joe Barry Carroll for Parish and McHale was dumb. But GSW thought Parish was the price they had to pay to move from 3 to 1. Maybe K*be for Vlade (even though K*be only got to CHA at 13 b/c he said he was only playing for the L*kers? Barkley hamstrung the Sixers in 92, so you can't really count that one.

The only one I can think of worse than that (and acknowledged as such at the time) was the Eddy Curry to the Knicks for multiple firsts. Gasol was a gift to the L*kers.

 

[Minstrel]

I'm really trying, but off the top of my head I can't think of many that were THAT panned at the time of the trade. I mean, yeah...Joe Barry Carroll for Parish and McHale was dumb. But GSW thought Parish was the price they had to pay to move from 3 to 1. Maybe K*be for Vlade (even though K*be only got to CHA at 13 b/c he said he was only playing for the L*kers? Barkley hamstrung the Sixers in 92, so you can't really count that one.

The only one I can think of worse than that (and acknowledged as such at the time) was the Eddy Curry to the Knicks for multiple firsts. Gasol was a gift to the L*kers.

Shaq to Miami for Odom and Butler was panned enormously at the time, since Shaq was coming off a still-dominant season and Butler had been disappointing in Miami after a nice rookie season. He wasn't regarded then as he is now.

 

[Nikolokolus]

If the Grizzlies can't get Rubio to come over, and everyone knows they can't (and you can bet his agent would make it common knowledge) then how much leverage would they have? I can't really see Heisley signing off on getting nothing in return. That's the first point. The second is that $3M means a lot to crappy-ass outfits like Memphis with cheap-ass owners like Heisley. The third is that it always turns out that it doesn't cost that much to move up even a few places in the draft, or certainly not as much as draft fanboys always imagine. We moved up from 4 to 2 by giving up Khryapa. Now I actually rated Khryapa, and he's a star in Europe where he can play PF, but nobody nobody who followed the Blazers on boards like this would've thought it would take that little. And what did we give up to move from 7 (Randy Foye) to 6 (Brandon Roy)? Wasn't it just cash?
Finally, we don't know how our players are viewed by other teams. I bet you that there are people round the league who really rate Sergio. Hell, people on this board think he's on a par with Rubio, so getting him AND the #3 pick for Rubio is like two-for-one!

I think it's fair to say that there's a ton of difference between jockeying between a spot or two when you're already in the top ten and what it would take to move from the late first round to the second overall pick. Likely you'd have to be willing to absorb some really nasty contract(s) and give up some very good prospects, money and picks to get one of the two players in this draft that most people consider "can't miss."

I suppose anything is possible, but getting Rubio seems like a pipedream ... especially when there are teams like Sacramento only two spots away who covet him and the Grizz can more easily work a deal with them where they trade down a couple of spots and probably get a nice young guy like Thompson or even an older vet like Nocioni who fills a position of need and they still get to pick a nice player at 4. Sergio + the 24th seems like an awfully poor counter offer.

 

[RickyRubio]

You guys have been good, very good at nabbing good draft picks, but this isn't going to happen.

I know right? Cuz we didn't get Roy for Foye from your team.

 

[alex42083]

I'm just not in favor of getting Rubio. I'm not in the mood of waiting another two seasons for this guy to develop and Brandon will be 27 by then. Our championship window is right now, we were good enough to get HCA this year and we're ready to take the next step -- we're not in the development of players stage anymore. Let's get some vets on this team and start winning now.