A serious analysis of the Blazers and Injuries

[chris_in_pdx]

As a homer, it definately seems like the Blazers have more than their fair share of injuries. I don't think I have to rehash them all, but are there environmental factors in play?

- Does the "Nateball" style of play put the players at a greater risk of injury than other styles of play? Does his substitution patterns put players at increased risk due to them being overtired from prolonged play with no rest and/or sitting on the bench too long to loosen back up for gameplay once re-inserted back into the game?

- Is the Blazer training staff and doctors, and the way they prepare players for gameplay actually contibuting to the player's injuries?

- Are the floors at either the practice facility or at the Rose Garden harder/softer/more or less forgiving to impact, that's contributing to the deterioration of knees and legs?

- Does the day-to-day scheduling of practices/travel/gameplay/rest in any way contribute to the injuries? Are players not being given enough time to recover after workouts, or being given too much time off and their muscles atrophying to the point of not being able to withstand the pounding of an NBA game?

I can't believe that over the last 5-7 years of freakish, seemingly never-ending string of player injuries isn't at least influenced by something the team is doing that other teams aren't.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I think we should sacrifice Mixum.

 

[Nikolokolus]

If you draft and trade for players with red flags on their physicals or guys who have had tendencies to injuries don't act so shocked when they get injured. The only thing fluky is that the injuries seem to be happening so clustered together.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

"It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage."

I do wonder if Nate's hard practices and ability to motivate players to play at 110% every night doesn't wear them down prematurely. Where a player like LMA looks soft and lazy in comparison, but in reality... well, you know... I can't say it. I can't bring myself to say it. But you know what I mean about effort and longevity and all that.

But more likely, it is a steady string of picks and trades for guys with red flags, like Nik said. That all seems to have a fairly well-documented history.

 

[illmatic99]

This isn't just 5-7 years of bad injury history. It goes to the Walton/Thompson/Bowie days. I swear the Rose Quarter is on some Indian burial ground or something.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

This isn't just 5-7 years of bad injury history. It goes to the Walton/Thompson/Bowie days. I swear the Rose Quarter is on some Indian burial ground or something.

One thing you can say, though, about the early 90s and late 90s/early 2000s Blazers, was that they were healthy. Injuries didn't stop them from winning the title, other/better teams (and themselves, in the case of 2000) did that.

 

[Natebishop3]

I definitely think there's some kind of bad juju going on. Maybe the team needs to bring in a medicine man or something.

 

[Rhal]

we could make a screen play out of this. "Ghost Busters 3: Exorcism of the Rose Garden"

 

[BlazerBeav]

One thing you can say, though, about the early 90s and late 90s/early 2000s Blazers, was that they were healthy. Injuries didn't stop them from winning the title, other/better teams (and themselves, in the case of 2000) did that.

Actually, the knee injury suffered by Kersey definitely had a negative effect on his career. And lest we forget, the knees of Sabonis kept him from destroying Shaq.

 

[Rhal]

Actually, the knee injury suffered by Kersey definitely had a negative effect on his career. And lest we forget, the knees of Sabonis kept him from destroying Shaq.

Sabonis's knees were gone before he ever donned a Blazer Jersey.

 

[Natebishop3]

Sabonis's knees were gone before he ever donned a Blazer Jersey.

Yeah, we got Sabonis at like 40% health, but even at 40% he was still amazing.

 

[tlongII]

Sabonis's knees were gone before he ever donned a Blazer Jersey.

His knees were fine. He had bad achilles tendons.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

Actually, the knee injury suffered by Kersey definitely had a negative effect on his career. And lest we forget, the knees of Sabonis kept him from destroying Shaq.

Right about Kersey, but that injury happened AFTER the Blazers title runs. And, like was said about, Sabonis' knees were long wrecked before he even put on a Portland jersey.... for those limitations, though, he was still a top 5 NBA center and played mostly healthy during his time here.

 

[Rhal]

Yeah, we got Sabonis at like 40% health, but even at 40% he was still amazing.

I honestly think if sabonis had started in the nba and not had bad knees he would be considered one of the best players ever.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

His knees were fine. He had bad achilles tendons.

You are right, my bad. Some Blazer historian I am.

Sabonis on the early 90s Blazer teams, had the Soviet Union let him come play in the NBA in his prime.... I don't think even MJ could have overcome that.

 

[Sug]

I think it all comes down to bad Blazer fan karma for being so negative. Every negative post in here takes a little meniscus from every player. That is as sound a theory as any in the OP's thread.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I think it all comes down to bad Blazer fan karma for being so negative. Every negative post in here takes a little meniscus from every player. That is as sound a theory as any in the OP's thread.

Karma doesn't work like that but it was a nice effort.

 

[Boob-No-More]

You are right, my bad. Some Blazer historian I am.

Sabonis on the early 90s Blazer teams, had the Soviet Union let him come play in the NBA in his prime.... I don't think even MJ could have overcome that.

Geez guy, wrong again. The Soviet Union had nothing to do with Sabonis not joining the Blazers sooner. He could have played here as early as 1989, but chose to play in Spain, for several years, instead. Due to his injury history, he preferred the shorter, easier schedule (and sunny weather) of playing in Spain over Portland. It probably didn't hurt that he was considered a god there, won multiple titles and MVP awards.

 

[maxiep]

Geez guy, wrong again. The Soviet Union had nothing to do with Sabonis not joining the Blazers sooner. He could have played here as early as 1989, but chose to play in Spain, for several years, instead. Due to his injury history, he preferred the shorter, easier schedule (and sunny weather) of playing in Spain over Portland. It probably didn't hurt that he was considered a god there, won multiple titles and MVP awards.

Yeah, the Russian mob had NOTHING to do with his choice of venue. Nothing at all.

 

[THE HCP]

Sabonis was Spanish?

 

[Natebishop3]

Sabonis was Spanish?

You wish!

 

[THE HCP]

I like big butts y no puedo mentir
Usted otros hermanos no se puede negar
Que cuando una chica entra con una cintura pequeños y chicos
Y una cosa redonda en su cara
Usted consigue surgido, quieren sacar su dura
Porque usted cuenta de que estaba llena a tope
En lo profundo de los vaqueros que lleva puesto
Estoy enganchado y no puedo dejar de mirar
Oh nena, quiero estar contigo
Y tomar su imagen
Mis cuates trató de advertir a
Pero que culo tienes me hace tan caliente
Ooh, Asiento-o'-suave piel
Dices que quieres estar en mi Benz?
Bueno, yo uso, úsame
Porque no es que groupie promedio
Los he visto bailando
Al diablo con romancin '
Ella es el sudor, mojado,
Got it goin 'como un turbo' Vette
Estoy cansado de revistas
colillas plana Diciendo son lo
Tome el negro promedio y pedirle que
Ella tiene mucho de nuevo pack
Así que, muchachos! (¡Sí!) Muchachos! (¡Sí!)
¿Su novia se la culata? (El infierno sí!)
Diles a agitar! (Shake it!) Shake it! (Shake it!)
Agitar que culo sano!
Baby Got Back!

 

[jlprk]

The reason that Chris titled the thread "serious" is that these injury discussions always become a lot of joking about hexes and superstitions.

Someone should make a list of injuries back to Walton. I think it would show that the team has gone relatively injury-free for long periods. Then we could stop the nonsense about how this team has always been cursed, and figure out when this started recently.

Step 1 A serious thread would first determine the time period.
Step 2 Only then can you list all the possible causes.
Step 3 Only then can you give reasons for why one is the true cause and others aren't.

 

[crandc]

It's true that during the 90s and early in this decade injuries were not a major problem (except Sabonis, who came with). Maybe it's some law of averages? But I do think the Blazers need to seriously examine the work out and conditioning. Yes, luck is a factor, but some players go their entire career with nothing worse than a turned ankle while others never seem to stay healthy. And some players who go deep in the playoffs year after year, all those extra games, seem none the worse for it. Looking at the facility would be a good idea as well. Not a hell of a lot can be done about the schedule or travel. But didn't the team fairly recently move from Blazer One customized plane to charter? Charter flights with regular airplane seats as opposed to the custom plane with oversized couches and chairs? Could that make a difference?

I'm just throwing out ideas here since none of us really have solid information. Looking at planes at least makes more sense than a curse, but if we do decide to sacrifice a poster I have a couple of nominees.

 

[mook]

If you draft and trade for players with red flags on their physicals or guys who have had tendencies to injuries don't act so shocked when they get injured. The only thing fluky is that the injuries seem to be happening so clustered together.

Spot on.

Maybe part of that has been a consequence of our huge playoff streak. If you never fall deep into the lottery and you aren't the Lakers, it's pretty damned hard to get a franchise player. So you have to gamble a little on guys with more elite talent but red flags in the injury department. Pippen, Smitty, Miles, Grant....and then when you finally do get in the lottery and get your shot at the gold, it's in the culture to disregard injuries (and you want out of there ASAP), so you go for more red flaggers like Batum, Aldridge, Roy and Oden.

Aldridge and Batum appear to be good gambles, and even with Roy we got more productivity out of him than Randy Foye will ever see. So it's not necessarily always a losing strategy.

 

[mook]

I'd also add that the Pareto Principle applies to practically everything. 20% of any activity generates 80% of the results. 20% of most companies' customer bases generate 80% of the profits. 20% of the work you do generates 80% of your productivity. Even in the NBA, 20% of the franchises seem to win about 80% of the championships.

Well, for whatever reason, maybe 20% of the franchises have 80% of the major injuries. And we happen to be one of those unlucky franchises.

 

[e_blazer]

If you draft and trade for players with red flags on their physicals or guys who have had tendencies to injuries don't act so shocked when they get injured. The only thing fluky is that the injuries seem to be happening so clustered together.

Przybilla - no history of knee injuries.
Camby - no history of knee injuries.
Pendergraph - no history of knee injuries. Had a hip issue, but that was resolved and wasn't a factor in the knee injury.
Oden - no history of knee injuries. Yeah, he had a wrist issue and the old "one leg is shorter than the other", but does anyone really think that should have been a red flag about him ultimately needing microfracture surgery on both knees?

So Roy and Williams, I'll give you. The rest is just the breaks of the game - no pun intended.

 

[mook]

Przybilla - no history of knee injuries.
Camby - no history of knee injuries.
Pendergraph - no history of knee injuries. Had a hip issue, but that was resolved and wasn't a factor in the knee injury.
Oden - no history of knee injuries. Yeah, he had a wrist issue and the old "one leg is shorter than the other", but does anyone really think that should have been a red flag about him ultimately needing microfracture surgery on both knees?

So Roy and Williams, I'll give you. The rest is just the breaks of the game - no pun intended.

Well, the common theme in that list is that they are all guys who play pretty physical in-the-paint games. Maybe as the NBA gets more loaded with bigger, more physical, defensive-oriented interior players (see this post in the other thread) it's getting harder to keep those kinds of players from sustaining injury?

 

[jlprk]

I sorted the ideas in this thread. Excerpts follow. I count 8 theories offered so far.
-------------
1) luck, hex, superstition

2) law of averages...It's true that during the 90s and early in this decade injuries were not a major problem (except Sabonis, who came with). Maybe it's some law of averages?...the Pareto Principle applies to practically everything. 20% of any activity generates 80% of the results. 20% of most companies' customer bases generate 80% of the profits. 20% of the work you do generates 80% of your productivity. Even in the NBA, 20% of the franchises seem to win about 80% of the championships. Well, for whatever reason, maybe 20% of the franchises have 80% of the major injuries. And we happen to be one of those unlucky franchises.

3) Does the "Nateball" style of play put the players at a greater risk of injury than other styles of play? Does his substitution patterns put players at increased risk due to them being overtired from prolonged play with no rest and/or sitting on the bench too long to loosen back up for gameplay once re-inserted back into the game?

4) Is the Blazer training staff and doctors, and the way they prepare players for gameplay actually contibuting to the player's injuries?

5) Are the floors at either the practice facility or at the Rose Garden harder/softer/more or less forgiving to impact, that's contributing to the deterioration of knees and legs?... Looking at the facility would be a good idea.

6) Does the day-to-day scheduling of practices/travel/gameplay/rest in any way contribute to the injuries? Are players not being given enough time to recover after workouts, or being given too much time off and their muscles atrophying to the point of not being able to withstand the pounding of an NBA game?...I do wonder if Nate's hard practices and ability to motivate players to play at 110% every night doesn't wear them down prematurely...Not a hell of a lot can be done about the schedule or travel. But didn't the team fairly recently move from Blazer One customized plane to charter? Charter flights with regular airplane seats as opposed to the custom plane with oversized couches and chairs?

7) If you draft and trade for players with red flags on their physicals or guys who have had tendencies to injuries don't act so shocked when they get injured...Maybe part of that has been a consequence of our huge playoff streak. If you never fall deep into the lottery and you aren't the Lakers, it's pretty damned hard to get a franchise player. So you have to gamble a little on guys with more elite talent but red flags in the injury department. Pippen, Smitty, Miles, Grant....and then when you finally do get in the lottery and get your shot at the gold, it's in the culture to disregard injuries (and you want out of there ASAP), so you go for more red flaggers like Batum, Aldridge, Roy and Oden...with Roy we got more productivity out of him than Randy Foye will ever see. So it's not necessarily always a losing strategy.

8) Well, the common theme in that [injured] list is that they are all guys who play pretty physical in-the-paint games. Maybe as the NBA gets more loaded with bigger, more physical, defensive-oriented interior players (see this post in the other thread) it's getting harder to keep those kinds of players from sustaining injury?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

A note: Darius Miles, Zach Randolph, Isaiah Rider, Derek Anderson, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Theo Ratliff all missed significant time with injuries before McMillian joined the team.