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Yeah, he had some confusing circle jerk going on in the intro, but the ideas were good.
 
I might not agree with all of it, but it is at least attempting to address the issue instead of howling about death panels and illegal immigrants and so on. My opinion of Jindal just went up a notch or two.

barfo
 
I've been working on my own proposal and Jindal came pretty close. There are still some difficult holes to fill, but a plan with this form of attack would end up being cheaper and more effective than a government takeover of the health care system.
 
The people don't want it. Believe the polls
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/...e=2&show_comment_id=31668553#comment_31668553

in the middle of a recession
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Yeah, we are right in the middle of it.

And the polling also shows the American people trust republicans even less than the Dems to get healthcare right.

Anyway, some good ideas in there that need to be incorporated into any healthcare bill, imo. I'm all for bi-partisan, but it seems that both sides don't want it. The left says they do but don't make a big effort, and the right is far more into stopping any form of healthcare reform than working on a bi-partisan solution.
 
MrJayremmie said:
Anyway, some good ideas in there that need to be incorporated into any healthcare bill, imo. I'm all for bi-partisan, but it seems that both sides don't want it. The left says they do but don't make a big effort, and the right is far more into stopping any form of healthcare reform than working on a bi-partisan solution.
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Are they more into stopping any form of healthcare reform, or are they concerned with stopping the current proposals, which they see as an incredibly expensive, and non-sustainable healthcare reform?

Or are you being extremely partisan?
 
blazerboy30 said:
Are they more into stopping any form of healthcare reform, or are they concerned with stopping the current proposals, which they see as an incredibly expensive, and non-sustainable healthcare reform?

Or are you being extremely partisan?
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I don't know, the Jindal editorial is absolutely the first proposal on reforming healthcare I've seen from any republican this year. You'd think if they wanted to address the problem we would have seen more proposals like this one. Maybe I've missed the others?

barfo
 
barfo said:
I don't know, the Jindal editorial is absolutely the first proposal on reforming healthcare I've seen from any republican this year. You'd think if they wanted to address the problem we would have seen more proposals like this one. Maybe I've missed the others?

barfo
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I don't really know how it works, but does somebody like Jindal have any influence on the Republicans in DC?

I mean, he can write decent proposals, but is there any chance they go anywhere?
 
blazerboy30 said:
I don't really know how it works, but does somebody like Jindal have any influence on the Republicans in DC?

I mean, he can write decent proposals, but is there any chance they go anywhere?
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No, Jindal probably doesn't have much influence. This is more about his career than actually solving healthcare, practically speaking.

Yeah, it would be better if actual DC Republicans stood up and made some proposals, but they don't seem interested in doing so. If they think they have ideas that are better for the country than what the Democrats are proposing, don't you think they should try to make it clear to all of us what those ideas are and why they are better?

barfo
 
barfo said:
If they think they have ideas that are better for the country than what the Democrats are proposing, don't you think they should try to make it clear to all of us what those ideas are and why they are better?

barfo
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It seems reasonable that they feel doing nothing at all could be better for the country than passing extremely expensive and unsustainable reform.

I actually do believe this is their main opposition. So from their perspective, doing nothing is a better proposal than what is being proposed by the Democrats. (and I agree with them).

On the other hand, I think our system can be improved. I just don't think the Democrats' current proposals will improve the system. I would love to see some solid, bipartisan proposals come out.
 
blazerboy30 said:
I don't really know how it works, but does somebody like Jindal have any influence on the Republicans in DC?

I mean, he can write decent proposals, but is there any chance they go anywhere?
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Paul Ryan presented a plan similar to Gov. Jindal's article as a series of amendments. All were voted down in committee.
 
blazerboy30 said:
Interesting. Do you have a link to more info?
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I heard it on NPR. I'll try to track down the link.

However, the larger point stands. The Democrats can talk about compromise all they want, but one side giving 95% and the other side giving 5% isn't compromise, it's capitulation. While there is an obligation for both sides to negotiate in good faith, there is no obligation for one side to raise the white flag to the other. If the Democrats were interested in true compromise in the House (I believe the gang of six tried in the Senate), the bill would look very different.

The Republicans have been pushed to the side, because the battleground right now is between the Left and the Far Left wings of the Democratic Party.
 
blazerboy30 said:
It seems reasonable that they feel doing nothing at all could be better for the country than passing extremely expensive and unsustainable reform.

I actually do believe this is their main opposition. So from their perspective, doing nothing is a better proposal than what is being proposed by the Democrats. (and I agree with them).

On the other hand, I think our system can be improved. I just don't think the Democrats' current proposals will improve the system. I would love to see some solid, bipartisan proposals come out.
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It's fine to say doing nothing is better than the Dems proposal. But everyone, including Republicans, say that something has to be done. Therefore, doing nothing isn't sufficient.

barfo
 
barfo said:
It's fine to say doing nothing is better than the Dems proposal. But everyone, including Republicans, say that something has to be done. Therefore, doing nothing isn't sufficient.

barfo
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Yes, but the "something" is what both sides are arguing about. And the Democrats' prescription many people believe makes the country and our health care system worse off.
 
maxiep said:
The Republicans have been pushed to the side, because the battleground right now is between the Left and the Far Left wings of the Democratic Party.
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The republicans have stepped to the side, because they haven't actually tried to make the case for their own program, if they have one. They've been given a huge amount of air time to talk about healthcare, and nearly every single bit of it is about what's wrong with the Dem. proposal, not what they think should be done instead.

barfo
 
What speaks volumes to me isn't what Republicans do or don't say this year about health care. It's what they've been saying for the last decade. When they were in charge getting health care to the uninsured was never much of a priority. It was tepid attempts at tort reform and health savings accounts, and the lame statement that you could always just go to the emergency room. The real priority had always been war and tax cuts.

The reason why it's a battle between the left and the far left is because the right never really cared much about it.
 
mook said:
What speaks volumes to me isn't what Republicans do or don't say this year about health care. It's what they've been saying for the last decade. When they were in charge getting health care to the uninsured was never much of a priority. It was tepid attempts at tort reform and health savings accounts, and the lame statement that you could always just go to the emergency room. The real priority had always been war and tax cuts.

The reason why it's a battle between the left and the far left is because the right never really cared much about it.
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I agree with you & barfo that the right should make their case more clearly, but it's also good strategy to make the other side fight among itself- it's a common strategy and can be highly effective. The lefties have done it well in the past as well. That's not a good excuse fort he right sitting on their hands, but it's unlikley their ideals would get off the ground since this issue is being ram rodded by the left.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, politics.
 
BLAZER PROPHET said:
I agree with you & barfo that the right should make their case more clearly, but it's also good strategy to make the other side fight among itself- it's a common strategy and can be highly effective. The lefties have done it well in the past as well. That's not a good excuse fort he right sitting on their hands, but it's unlikley their ideals would get off the ground since this issue is being ram rodded by the left.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, politics.
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That's probably true.

From a tactical standpoint, the right always knew that if they could get their tax cuts in, it'd be pretty hard to revoke them no matter what happened. (Who wants to be the guy who "raises taxes"?)

It's also why the left is so eager to pull health care reform off. If it can, it'll be impossible to ever get rid of.

In the end, you wind up getting fairly extreme policy. The tax cuts were far more severe than what was really responsible, given our debt burden and our wars. Similarly, the new health care plan will almost certainly be more expensive than what's probably prudent given our current circumstances.
 
mook said:
That's probably true.

From a tactical standpoint, the right always knew that if they could get their tax cuts in, it'd be pretty hard to revoke them no matter what happened. (Who wants to be the guy who "raises taxes"?)

It's also why the left is so eager to pull health care reform off. If it can, it'll be impossible to ever get rid of.

In the end, you wind up getting fairly extreme policy. The tax cuts were far more severe than what was really responsible, given our debt burden and our wars. Similarly, the new health care plan will almost certainly be more expensive than what's probably prudent given our current circumstances.
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In the last 22 years or so, both sides have spent more time trying to undermine the other side than trying to make the country better. It's the worst time in our history regarding Congress so far as I'm concerned.
 
MrJayremmie said:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/...e=2&show_comment_id=31668553#comment_31668553



Yeah, we are right in the middle of it.

And the polling also shows the American people trust republicans even less than the Dems to get healthcare right.

Anyway, some good ideas in there that need to be incorporated into any healthcare bill, imo. I'm all for bi-partisan, but it seems that both sides don't want it. The left says they do but don't make a big effort, and the right is far more into stopping any form of healthcare reform than working on a bi-partisan solution.
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How can "the right" stop any legislation? The have a minority in the House, and the Dems have 60 seats in the Senate. The Dems could write a bill that gives people that voted for them $1 million each, and the GOP could not do a thing to stop it. Blaming the GOP for what is really an internal division for the congressional Dems does not jibe with reality.
 
barfo said:
The republicans have stepped to the side, because they haven't actually tried to make the case for their own program, if they have one. They've been given a huge amount of air time to talk about healthcare, and nearly every single bit of it is about what's wrong with the Dem. proposal, not what they think should be done instead.

barfo
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1) tort reform
2) competition across state lines

That's in at least 2 of the 4 counterproposals offered by the GOP. Just because you are ignorant to the existence of other plans doesn't mean they don't exist.
 
PapaG said:
1) tort reform
2) competition across state lines

That's in at least 2 of the 4 counterproposals offered by the GOP. Just because you are ignorant to the existence of other plans doesn't mean they don't exist.
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You are right, I am ignorant of the 4 GOP counterproposals. What are they, please? And why don't republicans ever seem to talk about them?

barfo
 
barfo said:
You are right, I am ignorant of the 4 GOP counterproposals. What are they, please? And why don't republicans ever seem to talk about them?

barfo
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HR 3400 is the composite GOP bill. Look it up yourself. The GOP does "talk" about; you're not listening.
 
PapaG said:
HR 3400 is the composite GOP bill. Look it up yourself. The GOP does "talk" about; you're not listening.
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Thanks, I will look it up.

barfo
 
Some of the "ideas" in that article are already in the health plan proposal. So they are not original. But that doesn't mean they aren't good ideas. But unfortunately, I look at the rest of the ideas, and they are basically toothless. They don't have an ounce of a chance at making health care more affordable.

IMO at this time the best way to make health care affordable, is if citizens took the problem into their own hands. It is well known health care insurance companies run 30%++ profit margin. It sure would be nice if another separate insurance company came forward, pledged to never earn more than 5% profit, and return all proceeds exceeding 5% to the people that bought the policies in the form of company stock. That insurance company would kick some serious ass providing they could survive the lawsuits from the other insurance comapnies trying to take them down before they got started.
 
PapaG said:
HR 3400 is the composite GOP bill. Look it up yourself. The GOP does "talk" about; you're not listening.
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Ok, looked it up. HR 3400 isn't the composite GOP bill; in fact the Republican leadership (such as it is) doesn't even endorse it.

Here's an interesting AP article about the R's health care plans.

Privately, Republican lawmakers have debated the pros and cons of offering their own comprehensive legislation in the Democratic-controlled Congress. A leader on the issue, Rep. Roy Blunt, R-Mo., said on June 17, "I guarantee you, we will bring you a bill that costs far less, far less than the Democrats' and will provide better results for the American people."

A month later, Blunt seemed to have changed his mind.

"Our bill is never going to get to the floor," he wrote in a blog, "so why confuse the focus? We clearly have principles; we could have language, but why start diverting attention from this really bad piece of work they've got to whatever we're offering right now?"

Eventually, other Republican leaders in Congress agreed with that analysis.

Several Republicans in Congress have introduced narrow bills — many calling for tax cuts — that have gone nowhere in Congress and generated scant notice. Party leaders have not associated themselves with Price's multi-pronged bill, perhaps the most ambitious of all those drafted by Republicans.
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barfo
 
hasoos said:
IMO at this time the best way to make health care affordable, is if citizens took the problem into their own hands. It is well known health care insurance companies run 30%++ profit margin. It sure would be nice if another separate insurance company came forward, pledged to never earn more than 5% profit, and return all proceeds exceeding 5% to the people that bought the policies in the form of company stock. That insurance company would kick some serious ass providing they could survive the lawsuits from the other insurance comapnies trying to take them down before they got started.
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This is a very good idea. The large health insurance company I work for in non profit. I think they should all be non profit so there are no competing interests from share holders. But, if health insurers are forced to not make a profit, they should be entitled to some relief if they sustain losses. Recent and probable near future regulations have cut deeply into profits and for us have really forced to cut back on people & benefits.
 
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