Addition by subtraction

[illmatic99]

This is what I and others here been saying about Whiteside's bloated numbers. We will be better after we trade him as long as we get a somewhat serviceable 7 footer back (Dieng would be fine). I wonder if our coaching staff break down film like this for the players, though.



Can't wait for Nurk to come back.

Saw this from Game 1 against Denver how lazy this dude is, was hoping he'd get better. He has but not enough to warrant keeping him. Honestly feel like we'd be better simply by letting him go.

 

[HailBlazers]

Holding out hope for a team friendly contract. Like Melo I think he likes it here.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

Addition by subtraction... I thought you were talking about CJ. What about his bloated numbers??! He doesn’t play defense or pass, and kills the flow of offense with his ISO ball. Oh, and he is making 30+ mil for the next 4 years while entering his 30’s.

 

[GDiama]

This is what I and others here been saying about Whiteside's bloated numbers. We will be better after we trade him as long as we get a somewhat serviceable 7 footer back (Dieng would be fine). I wonder if our coaching staff break down film like this for the players, though.



Can't wait for Nurk to come back.

Saw this from Game 1 against Denver how lazy this dude is, was hoping he'd get better. He has but not enough to warrant keeping him. Honestly feel like we'd be better simply by letting him go.

The first part about defensive ability /IQi know that Hassan cannot be like Gobert anyway, some things you cannot teach. The effort part though gets on my nerves, it's like he chooses to give up sometimes. Maybe that helps to stay fresh to stat pad when opportunity is presented.

I also read some articles about why his blocks don't really translate to elite D and how he hurts team rebounding as well with his positions. Something like if he doesn't get the rebound he leaves the team too exposed for the Oreb. I cannot find the link right now though.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Nobody says he is as good as Gobert. Selective editing makes him look worse than he is. I don't think he is lazy; just his processing speed is slower. A center has to make some really difficult choices when playing defense on Blazers. BTW, I am not arguing to keep him, have always says he has to go. Just I think he is overall doing a good job and doing the best he can.

 

[B-Roy]

The numbers still show him as a positive, it just says he’s not as good as His numbers suggest, or that he’s better than Gobert. Sure, everyone knew that already. There’s only been one or two people that have implied he may be as good or better than Nurkic, so it’s not like people don’t recognize how much better Nurk is.

 

[illmatic99]

The numbers still show him as a positive, it just says he’s not as good as His numbers suggest, or that he’s better than Gobert. Sure, everyone knew that already. There’s only been one or two people that have implied he may be as good or better than Nurkic, so it’s not like people don’t recognize how much better Nurk is.

The Nurk comp was never a question.

I'm thinking more of if he's an upgrade over someone like Kanter. On defense, especially.

 

[Scalma]

Nobody says he is as good as Gobert. Selective editing makes him look worse than he is. I don't think he is lazy; just his processing speed is slower. A center has to make some really difficult choices when playing defense on Blazers. BTW, I am not arguing to keep him, have always says he has to go. Just I think he is overall doing a good job and doing the best he can.

There’s probably no one in the league that suffers more from confirmation bias than Whiteside. He’s not as good as Gobert or Nurkic? Well...no shit. He’s still a good player and Portland doesn’t win any games without him. Better off without him? Maybe if your objective is the first pick in the draft.

 

[B-Roy]

The Nurk comp was never a question.

I'm thinking more of if he's an upgrade over someone like Kanter. On defense, especially.

okay fine, but acting as if losing him would be addition by subtraction is ludacris to me. Kanter is not really a comparison. He’s here partially because Kanter couldn’t make up his damn mind.

 

[illmatic99]

There’s probably no one in the league that suffers more from confirmation bias than Whiteside. He’s not as good as Gobert or Nurkic? Well...no shit. He’s still a good player and Portland doesn’t win any games without him. Better off without him? Maybe if you’re objective is the first pick in the draft.

Let's see what happens in Feb when we get rid of him. Bam's explosion in Miami, their current record, and their desperation to get rid of him mean something, right? I think we'll be just as good if it were Skal getting 30 mpg instead of Whiteside right now. Unfortunately, we lost even our backup's backup.

I mean, they took Meyers Leonard for him.

 

[julius]

Addition by subtraction... I thought you were talking about CJ. What about his bloated numbers??! He doesn’t play defense or pass, and kills the flow of offense with his ISO ball. Oh, and he is making 30+ mil for the next 4 years while entering his 30’s.

For the love of christ, you don't have to bring up CJ at every fucking possible moment.

 

[B-Roy]

Let's see what happens in Feb when we get rid of him. Bam's explosion in Miami, their current record, and their desperation to get rid of him mean something, right? I think we'll be just as good if it were Skal getting 30 mpg instead of Whiteside right now. Unfortunately, we lost even our backup's backup.

I mean, they took Meyers Leonard for him.

I feel like you’re putting a nice spin on the situation. They didn’t just take Meyers for him, the move was also made to make room for Jimmy Butler.

 

[B-Roy]

I think there is also something to be said about how he looks on this team specifically. He would look much better on last years team without starting forwards that give up straight drives to the rim all game.

 

[julius]

I like how people will use his #'s as some kind of proof he's not lazy/undisciplined on defense. Box score watching doesn't mean much when you look at the overall scope and impact on the team his play has.

Some of the stuff I don't mind, but it's the lack of hands up on defense that bugs me. It's similar to how Aldridge used to play passive defense. It's not a knock on him, that's just his style, but it's a type of defense that comes off looking lazy and undisciplined.

 

[illmatic99]

I like how people will use his #'s as some kind of proof he's not lazy/undisciplined on defense. Box score watching doesn't mean much when you look at the overall scope and impact on the team his play has.

Some of the stuff I don't mind, but it's the lack of hands up on defense that bugs me. It's similar to how Aldridge used to play passive defense. It's not a knock on him, that's just his style, but it's a type of defense that comes off looking lazy and undisciplined.

He's just now getting the hang of screening and sprinting off them. Dame is the best P&R guard in the league, and I legit think Whiteside's play hindered Dame earlier in the year on offense.

 

[julius]

He's just now getting the hang of screening and sprinting off them. Dame is the best P&R guard in the league, and I legit think Whiteside's play hindered Dame earlier in the year on offense.

He's the kind of player, imho, that would be the perfect bench player. Whiteside as a starter (and anchor on defense) will never be as good as Nurk as a starter (and anchor on defense and facilitator on offense).

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

For the love of christ, you don't have to bring up CJ at every fucking possible moment.

Well I don’t like seeing a guy that leads the league in blocks, 4th in rebounds, and top 10 in PER being accused of empty stats when CJ is the epitome of empty stats... and it’s not just stats for Whiteside... I’ve watched him make big plays in games we had no business winning... he is a difference maker

 

[julius]

Well I don’t like seeing a guy that leads the league in blocks, 4th in rebounds, and top 10 in PER being accused of empty stats when CJ is the epitome of empty stats... and it’s not just stats for Whiteside... I’ve watched him make big plays in games we had no business winning... he is a difference maker

Not everything is about you.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

Not everything is about you.

I know... but I still have the right to respond

 

[julius]

I know... but I still have the right to respond

True, but the truest sign of maturity is knowing that while you have the right to respond, you don't actually *have* to respond.

 

[TBpup]

I feel like you’re putting a nice spin on the situation. They didn’t just take Meyers for him, the move was also made to make room for Jimmy Butler.

This. Trading Whiteside to get a center who stretches the floor and ADDING Jimmy Butler to then have a more open lane....sees like a no-brainer. If we could trade Whiteside for Meyers and Butler, I'd do it in a heartbeat.....which is basically what happened for Miami.

 

[B-Roy]

This. Trading Whiteside to get a center who stretches the floor and ADDING Jimmy Butler to then have a more open lane....sees like a no-brainer. If we could trade Whiteside for Meyers and Butler, I'd do it in a heartbeat.....which is basically what happened for Miami.

They also gave a 1st for LAC to take Harkless, but still, I agree.

 

[wizenheimer]

Whiteside may not be as good as his stats, but he sure isn't as bad as his haters here claim either

I don't have a problem with him being traded unless it's for another stupid bloated long-term contract. I'm fine with his expiring contract just expiring. But then, I don't think Portland is going to get anything substantial for him without giving up other good assets, and I don't see any good reason for that because I don't subscribe to the notion it's good to take on contracts just because of the very debatable value of future hypothetical trades

by the way, here are some numbers I think say more about Whiteside than some cherry-picked agenda-driven video:

Portland opponent FG% at Rim (0-3') & League rank:

2018-19 - .633 (6th)
2019-20 - .609 (2nd)

Portland opponent FG% 3-10' & League rank:

2018-19 - .411 (24th)
2019-20 - .375 (7th)

so then, these two areas of the floor are basically the paint. This is the area that is most impacted by big man defense and rim protection. And what those number show is that this season, Whiteside + Skal (part-time) + Melo + Tolliver posted much better results than 75+ games of Nurk + Zach + Aminu + Meyers + Kanter. Putting those two sets of numbers together does not come anywhere close to fitting with the narrative that Whiteside has hollow stats

 

[wizenheimer]

Let's see what happens in Feb when we get rid of him. Bam's explosion in Miami, their current record, and their desperation to get rid of him mean something, right? I think we'll be just as good if it were Skal getting 30 mpg instead of Whiteside right now. Unfortunately, we lost even our backup's backup.

I mean, they took Meyers Leonard for him.

you're letting your vitriolic hate of Whiteside blow the hell out of your reason and logic

Miami made room for Butler by exchanging the salary of Whiteside for Meyers...do the math. And Butler is having an MVP-level season

furthermore, Duncan Robinson hardly played last season (only 15 games at 10 min.game). So add Robinson to rookies Tyler Herro & Kendrick Nunn, and those 3 players are averaging 41 points and 7 assists while shooting 40% on three's and carrying high. If Portland was getting that kind of consistent, efficient support from Simons, Trent, and Little, they'd have a winning record

Miami had an actual opportunity to make a major addition-by-subtraction move and they accepted the risk and went for it. I wish the Blazers had a GM with the nerves of Riley

 

[illmatic99]

you're letting your vitriolic hate of Whiteside blow the hell out of your reason and logic

Miami made room for Butler by exchanging the salary of Whiteside for Meyers...do the math. And Butler is having an MVP-level season

furthermore, Duncan Robinson hardly played last season (only 15 games at 10 min.game). So add Robinson to rookies Tyler Herro & Kendrick Nunn, and those 3 players are averaging 41 points and 7 assists while shooting 40% on three's and carrying high. If Portland was getting that kind of consistent, efficient support from Simons, Trent, and Little, they'd have a winning record

Miami had an actual opportunity to make a major addition-by-subtraction move and they accepted the risk and went for it. I wish the Blazers had a GM with the nerves of Riley

It's not vitriolic hate. I just don't think he's a winning basketball player. And that we'd be better off with any replacement level big in his place.

 

[wizenheimer]

It's not vitriolic hate.

c'mon man...I've read your repetitive anti- Whiteside screeds in game threads. It's obvious you hate him and want him gone...a lot. You just created a thread for it. Maybe 'hate' is too strong a word, but it would only be a slight exaggeration, if at all.

I just don't think he's a winning basketball player. And that we'd be better off with any replacement level big in his place.

I don't really know what you mean by "replacement" player, but if it's somebody like Skal, or Jacob Poeltl, or Khem Birch, not a chance a C like that would give Portland as good a chance at winning. I posted those numbers of Portland opponent FG% in the paint. That's the only thing about their defense that's good right now. Take away that and Portland is losing at a higher rate than they already are (which I don't object to, considering the situation)

and if by replacement you mean somebody better than the C's like above....IMO, Blazers aren't getting any from what they'd be willing to trade...or accept in next year salary

 

[illmatic99]

c'mon man...I've read your repetitive anti- Whiteside screeds in game threads. It's obvious you hate him and want him gone...a lot. You just created a thread for it. Maybe 'hate' is too strong a word, but it would only be a slight exaggeration, if at all.

He's not a winner. I don't like lazy players like that. BFD. I want him off my team. Is that really vitriolic hate?

I don't really know what you mean by "replacement" player, but if it's somebody like Skal, or Jacob Poeltl, or Khem Birch, not a chance a C like that would give Portland as good a chance at winning. I posted those numbers of Portland opponent FG% in the paint. That's the only thing about their defense that's good right now. Take away that and Portland is losing at a higher rate than they already are (which I don't object to, considering the situation)

and if by replacement you mean somebody better than the C's like above....IMO, Blazers aren't getting any from what they'd be willing to trade...or accept in next year salary

Stats be damned-- they freaking lie. Here are some unheralded centers I think would make our team better than Whiteside:

- Daniel Theis
- Richaun Holmes
- Gorgui Dieng
- Aron Baynes
- Ivica Zubac
- Derrick Favors
- Poeltl plays fucking HARD. Something Whiteside only does on occasion

 

[BlayZa]

re whiteside i think he is a lower intensity player, but to me it seems like he's playing with more fire this season. maybe its contract based, maybe he's just happier.....

either way, to keep him would be helluva expenny and we could turn him into something useful.

annoying thing, Ariza is playing great.

carmelo is playing great, usually.

tbh i think having ariza will take some of the pressure of the need for CJ to feel like he has to heroball all the damn time.

still not against trading cj, whiteside etc but only if it makes sense.

 

[Scalma]

I don’t know how a fan can tell the difference between lazy and low IQ/slow reactor...unless they had a narrative to keep of course. Whiteside puts in more work every night than everyone except Lillard. He has to. He's pretty much single handily doing all the work on the boards and also has to cover up a ton of mistakes by his teammates defensively.

 

[illmatic99]

Never realized there were so many Whiteside fans here. I think all these opinions are clouded by the fact that he's the only guy we have above 6'9 who isn't in street clothes.