AL MVP Race

[Jon_Vilma]

1. Derek Jeter2. Johan Santana3. Frank Thomas

 

[FSUViking]

<span style="font-family:Convection"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#6600CC">1. Justin Morneau2. Frank Thomas3. Jermain Dye4. Travis Hafner </span></span></span>

 

[Brooksie5]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FSUViking @ Sep 19 2006, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-family:Convection"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#6600CC">1. Justin Morneau2. Frank Thomas3. Jermain Dye4. Travis Hafner </span></span></span></div>Coughbiasedcough. I can even say that when he's my favorite player (I laugh at other Twins fans who said Tony Bautista would lead this team in HRs and I stuck with Morneau the day I knew him). Maybe Morneau can win Silver Slugger for first base, but not MVP yet.1. Jermaine Dye2. Derek Jeter3. Johan Santana

 

[DevinHester23]

1. Big Hurt2. Big Papi3. Jeter4. Pronk5. Mauer/Mornue

 

[Nebkreb]

Big Hurt is MIP/comeback player, not MVP..hes a candidate, but not close to Papi/DJ/Dyeobviously im biased, but w/e: fuck off.1 - derek jeter - most important player on our team, besides Rivera. Makes the whole offense go. Could lead league in avg, and get 100 RBIs and 100 Runs Scored out of the #2 spot2 - Dye - best part of a dismal season.3 - Papi, woulda won it if the Red Sox hadnt collapsed, Mannys injury has allowed teams to walk Papi

 

[TCOF]

I saw a sign during the weekend series that is 100% correct and hopefully it stays true forever. I don't remember it word for word but it was something like this:Jeter = 4 ABs and great feildingOrtiz = 4 ABs and that's itA DH should never win the MVP unless he hits 70+ HRs and gets 170+ RBIs.

 

[AdropOFvenom]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TCOF @ Sep 19 2006, 05:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I saw a sign during the weekend series that is 100% correct and hopefully it stays true forever. I don't remember it word for word but it was something like this:Jeter = 4 ABs and great feildingOrtiz = 4 ABs and that's itA DH should never win the MVP unless he hits 70+ HRs and gets 170+ RBIs.</div>In 1992 Dennis Eckersley, a relief pitcher, won the AL MVP.In 1986 Roger Clemens, a starting pitcher, won the AL MVP.In 1984 Willie Hernandez, a relief pitcher, won the AL MVP.In 1981 Rollie Fingers, a relief pitcher, won the AL MVP.In fact, Pitchers have won MVP's as early as 1913.Now, my question for you is what is the difference?- A starting pitcher only pitches once every 5 days. - A relief pitcher only plays a few innings at most a day.- Neither of which really plays any defense.The Question isnt who is the on the field the most, the Question is who does the most when they are on the field, to completely discount somebody because they dont play defense is just wrong. It is one thing to hold it against them if everything is equal, but when they arent equal, the DH is plenty deserving of winning the MVP. Even without having 70 Home Runs and 170 RBI's

With all that said though, I do not consider David Ortiz the MVP right now because Boston completely has collapsed out of the playoff race this past month, even while Ortiz was on the field. An MVP doesnt allow his team to fall apart like that. My MVP right now, is Johan Santana right now.Johan Santana ranks 1st in the American League in 7 Pitching CategoriesHe is First in Wins, Strikeouts, WHIP, Batting Average Against, Innings Pitched, ERA, and Winning Percentage.The Minnesota Twins are 26-6 In Games in which he has started, and 24-3 In Games in which he has started since May 1st. There is no player in the American League that has been close to as dominant as Johan Santana is.

 

[The Marine]

Johan SantanaHe is tearing it up and he's just a dominated force and could be the greatest pitcher to ever live when he's done. C'mon, he really deserves to be MVP

 

[TCOF]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Sep 20 2006, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TCOF @ Sep 19 2006, 05:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I saw a sign during the weekend series that is 100% correct and hopefully it stays true forever. I don't remember it word for word but it was something like this:Jeter = 4 ABs and great feildingOrtiz = 4 ABs and that's itA DH should never win the MVP unless he hits 70+ HRs and gets 170+ RBIs.</div>In 1992 Dennis Eckersley, a relief pitcher, won the AL MVP.In 1986 Roger Clemens, a starting pitcher, won the AL MVP.In 1984 Willie Hernandez, a relief pitcher, won the AL MVP.In 1981 Rollie Fingers, a relief pitcher, won the AL MVP.</div>In 92 Eckersley posted 51 saves. He deserved MVP that year.Clemons had 24 wins in 86, another number that showed he deserved it.In 84, Hernaddez only gave up 30 runs in 140 innings. That's about 1 run every 5 innings. Again, numbers that shows he deserved it.If you put up those kind of numbers, then yes you deserve to win it.Ortiz, while he has good power numbers, his BA is .280, and his OBP .402.Jeter has a BA of .334 and OBP of .414. And he's playing Gold Glove caliber fielding. That's why he will get the MVP.

 

[AdropOFvenom]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TCOF @ Sep 20 2006, 11:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In 92 Eckersley posted 51 saves. He deserved MVP that year.Clemons had 24 wins in 86, another number that showed he deserved it.In 84, Hernaddez only gave up 30 runs in 140 innings. That's about 1 run every 5 innings. Again, numbers that shows he deserved it.If you put up those kind of numbers, then yes you deserve to win it.Ortiz, while he has good power numbers, his BA is .280, and his OBP .402.Jeter has a BA of .334 and OBP of .414. And he's playing Gold Glove caliber fielding. That's why he will get the MVP.</div>I've already said I dont think Ortiz is the MVP so relax. I've said Johan Santana should be the MVP, and he is having 'those kind of numbers'. And Id hate to break it to you, but Jeter is Average Defensively. He is a flashy fielder who uses that 'flair' to attempt to cover up a glaring weakness in terms of his range. In terms of Jon_Vilma's favorite stat in Win Shares, Jeter ranks 8th in the AL in Fielding Win Shares and 14th in All Of Baseball. The Fact that he has won multiple Gold Gloves just proves how Ignorant most of the Voters for these awards actually are.

 

[Brooksie5]

Well considering Johan is the best player in baseball.. he deserves to win MVP, Cy Young, Silver Slugger, Gold Glove, Rookie of the Year, Rolaids Relief Man, Hank Aaron award, and whatever else they give out.

 

[FSUViking]

<span style="font-family:Convection"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#6600CC">If it wasn't for Morneau, the Twins aren't within 15 games of a Wild Card. Now that is the definition of a Most Valuable Player.</span></span></span>

 

[DevinHester23]

I think the Great Johan Santana should win it, but I also think Frank Thomas should.

 

[Jon_Vilma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Sep 20 2006, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TCOF @ Sep 20 2006, 11:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In 92 Eckersley posted 51 saves. He deserved MVP that year.Clemons had 24 wins in 86, another number that showed he deserved it.In 84, Hernaddez only gave up 30 runs in 140 innings. That's about 1 run every 5 innings. Again, numbers that shows he deserved it.If you put up those kind of numbers, then yes you deserve to win it.Ortiz, while he has good power numbers, his BA is .280, and his OBP .402.Jeter has a BA of .334 and OBP of .414. And he's playing Gold Glove caliber fielding. That's why he will get the MVP.</div>I've already said I dont think Ortiz is the MVP so relax. I've said Johan Santana should be the MVP, and he is having 'those kind of numbers'. And Id hate to break it to you, but Jeter is Average Defensively. He is a flashy fielder who uses that 'flair' to attempt to cover up a glaring weakness in terms of his range. In terms of Jon_Vilma's favorite stat in Win Shares, Jeter ranks 8th in the AL in Fielding Win Shares and 14th in All Of Baseball. The Fact that he has won multiple Gold Gloves just proves how Ignorant most of the Voters for these awards actually are.</div>Out of every active SS in the AL for the past 3 years, Jeter has the best fielding %.That said, those Win Shares in the field only bulk up his win shares at bat.

 

[Brooksie5]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FSUViking @ Sep 20 2006, 05:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-family:Convection"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#6600CC">If it wasn't for Morneau, the Twins aren't within 15 games of a Wild Card. Now that is the definition of a Most Valuable Player.</span></span></span></div>I suppose your right. But that's not what people really vote it as. They vote it as Player with the Best Stats.

 

[Jon_Vilma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FSUViking @ Sep 20 2006, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-family:Convection"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#6600CC">If it wasn't for Morneau, the Twins aren't within 15 games of a Wild Card. Now that is the definition of a Most Valuable Player.</span></span></span></div>If you put Morneau on the Yankees, and Jeter on the Twins, the Twins would have the division lead and the Yankees would still be battling the Red Sox for the division crown.

 

[DevinHester23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Sep 20 2006, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FSUViking @ Sep 20 2006, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-family:Convection"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#6600CC">If it wasn't for Morneau, the Twins aren't within 15 games of a Wild Card. Now that is the definition of a Most Valuable Player.</span></span></span></div>If you put Morneau on the Yankees, and Jeter on the Twins, the Twins would have the division lead and the Yankees would still be battling the Red Sox for the division crown.</div> :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO:The Twins have a commanding lead on the Red Sox as well.

 

[Jon_Vilma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrianUrlacher54 @ Sep 20 2006, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Sep 20 2006, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FSUViking @ Sep 20 2006, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-family:Convection"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#6600CC">If it wasn't for Morneau, the Twins aren't within 15 games of a Wild Card. Now that is the definition of a Most Valuable Player.</span></span></span></div>If you put Morneau on the Yankees, and Jeter on the Twins, the Twins would have the division lead and the Yankees would still be battling the Red Sox for the division crown.</div> :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO:The Twins have a commanding lead on the Red Sox as well.</div>Which shows you how impactful Jeter is.

 

[AdropOFvenom]

[quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='70189' date='Sep 20 2006, 06:29 PM'][quote name='BrianUrlacher54' post='70185' date='Sep 20 2006, 07:16 PM'][quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='70184' date='Sep 20 2006, 09:11 PM'][quote name='FSUViking' post='70166' date='Sep 20 2006, 03:38 PM']<span style="font-family:Convection"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#6600CC">If it wasn't for Morneau, the Twins aren't within 15 games of a Wild Card. Now that is the definition of a Most Valuable Player.</span></span></span>[/quote]If you put Morneau on the Yankees, and Jeter on the Twins, the Twins would have the division lead and the Yankees would still be battling the Red Sox for the division crown.[/quote] :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO:The Twins have a commanding lead on the Red Sox as well.[/quote]Which shows you how impactful Jeter is.[/quote]Explain to us how Jeter has anything to do with the Twins being a better team then the Red Sox by a huge margin :LMAO: And the Twins would likely be worse with Jeter, because Morneau brings just about the only source of power that their lineup currently has whereas they are already filled with Contact Hitters, so you're arguement is pretty flawed right there.

 

[Jon_Vilma]

[quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='70198' date='Sep 20 2006, 07:54 PM'][quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='70189' date='Sep 20 2006, 06:29 PM'][quote name='BrianUrlacher54' post='70185' date='Sep 20 2006, 07:16 PM'][quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='70184' date='Sep 20 2006, 09:11 PM'][quote name='FSUViking' post='70166' date='Sep 20 2006, 03:38 PM']<span style="font-family:Convection"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#6600CC">If it wasn't for Morneau, the Twins aren't within 15 games of a Wild Card. Now that is the definition of a Most Valuable Player.</span></span></span>[/quote]If you put Morneau on the Yankees, and Jeter on the Twins, the Twins would have the division lead and the Yankees would still be battling the Red Sox for the division crown.[/quote] :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO:The Twins have a commanding lead on the Red Sox as well.[/quote]Which shows you how impactful Jeter is.[/quote]Explain to us how Jeter has anything to do with the Twins being a better team then the Red Sox by a huge margin :LMAO: And the Twins would likely be worse with Jeter, because Morneau brings just about the only source of power that their lineup currently has whereas they are already filled with Contact Hitters, so you're arguement is pretty flawed right there.[/quote]Without Jeter, the Yankees wouldn't be.

 

[Sunset]

What it will end up as.JeterMorneauPapi FrankDye SantaMauer What it should beSantanao I need to explain? He's the best pitcher in baseball and there's no debate about it even. And he's on track to be become a top 10 pitcher ever unless Liriano does it before him. Morneau: Not only is he a on the top 5 in BA he also he 30+ homers and 120+ RBI's. That's a huge HR-RBI ratio. Almost 4 RBI's per HR. Most power hitters get closers to 2 or maybe 3 in that. He's a very solid fielder. And his hitting has kept the twins in the race. They wouldn't have won this much with out him. I just can't put Papi or Dye ahead of him because there teams haven't done anything close to the Twins. And Jeter. We'll I'll explain nextJeter:Yes the Yankees have done great things again. A lot because of Jeter but you can't factor out others. Yes Alex Rodriguez isn't playing the best but this statline isn't awful.AVG .284 | HR 34 | RBI 116 | OBP .384 | SLG .514Yes someone getting that kind of money it is pretty bad but that's still nice numbers. It's not like Johnny Damon hasn't done anything. Or Jorge Posada or Jason Giambi or any of the other guys. I'm probably just biased but I haven't seen enough of Jeter to see he's any better so I guess this isn't a fair judgement but I'm not a professional sports journalist or anything Ortiz: Yes he isn't on a condteder but not everyone can do that kind of thing. This is a red sox legand you're watching. A red sox legand!That's all I can do now. But thats my opinion

 

[Brooksie5]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaroonNGold @ Sep 21 2006, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What it will end up as.JeterMorneauPapi FrankDye <u>Santa</u>Mauer What it should beSantanao I need to explain? He's the best pitcher in baseball and there's no debate about it even. And he's on track to be become a top 10 pitcher ever unless Liriano does it before him. Morneau: Not only is he a on the top 5 in BA he also he 30+ homers and 120+ RBI's. That's a huge HR-RBI ratio. Almost 4 RBI's per HR. Most power hitters get closers to 2 or maybe 3 in that. He's a very solid fielder. And his hitting has kept the twins in the race. They wouldn't have won this much with out him. I just can't put Papi or Dye ahead of him because there teams haven't done anything close to the Twins. And Jeter. We'll I'll explain nextJeter:Yes the Yankees have done great things again. A lot because of Jeter but you can't factor out others. Yes Alex Rodriguez isn't playing the best but this statline isn't awful.AVG .284 | HR 34 | RBI 116 | OBP .384 | SLG .514Yes someone getting that kind of money it is pretty bad but that's still nice numbers. It's not like Johnny Damon hasn't done anything. Or Jorge Posada or Jason Giambi or any of the other guys. I'm probably just biased but I haven't seen enough of Jeter to see he's any better so I guess this isn't a fair judgement but I'm not a professional sports journalist or anything Ortiz: Yes he isn't on a condteder but not everyone can do that kind of thing. This is a red sox legand you're watching. A red sox legand!That's all I can do now. But thats my opinion</div>Nice. Santa gets something other than cookies this year. He gets his name mentioned in the MVP race.

 

[TCOF]

Santa is always on my MVP ballot.But pitchers shouldn't get the MVP. That's what they have the Cy Young for. Yeah those guys in the 80s and wat naught deserved it, but pitchers shouldn't get MVP.

 

[FSUViking]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Sep 20 2006, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FSUViking @ Sep 20 2006, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-family:Convection"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#6600CC">If it wasn't for Morneau, the Twins aren't within 15 games of a Wild Card. Now that is the definition of a Most Valuable Player.</span></span></span></div>If you put Morneau on the Yankees, and Jeter on the Twins, the Twins would have the division lead and the Yankees would still be battling the Red Sox for the division crown.</div><span style="font-family:Convection"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#6600CC">WOW.So, your saying that putting Morneau and his .326 33 HRs and 125 RBI would make the Yankees' WORSE? And his personal stats would go DOWN surrounded by guys like Giambi and A-Rod? Meanwhile, Jeter would make the Twins better?That's about as fucked up as I have ever heard something be.</span></span></span>

 

[Jon_Vilma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FSUViking @ Sep 21 2006, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Sep 20 2006, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FSUViking @ Sep 20 2006, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-family:Convection"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#6600CC">If it wasn't for Morneau, the Twins aren't within 15 games of a Wild Card. Now that is the definition of a Most Valuable Player.</span></span></span></div>If you put Morneau on the Yankees, and Jeter on the Twins, the Twins would have the division lead and the Yankees would still be battling the Red Sox for the division crown.</div><span style="font-family:Convection"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#6600CC">WOW.So, your saying that putting Morneau and his .326 33 HRs and 125 RBI would make the Yankees' WORSE? And his personal stats would go DOWN surrounded by guys like Giambi and A-Rod? Meanwhile, Jeter would make the Twins better?That's about as fucked up as I have ever heard something be.</span></span></span></div>Yes, if you took Jeter off the team for his roster spot, most definitely.

 

[AdropOFvenom]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TCOF @ Sep 21 2006, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Santa is always on my MVP ballot.But pitchers shouldn't get the MVP. That's what they have the Cy Young for. Yeah those guys in the 80s and wat naught deserved it, but pitchers shouldn't get MVP.</div>Johan Santana deserves it as much as those pitchers in the 80's did. And the Hitters have the Hank Aaron award, the pitchers have the Cy Young. What's your point? You could say the same thing that a certain hitter doesnt deserve the MVP because hes going to Win the Hank Aaron Award anyways......The Most Valueable player is the most valueable player, regardless of position.

 

[Jon_Vilma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Sep 22 2006, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TCOF @ Sep 21 2006, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Santa is always on my MVP ballot.But pitchers shouldn't get the MVP. That's what they have the Cy Young for. Yeah those guys in the 80s and wat naught deserved it, but pitchers shouldn't get MVP.</div>Johan Santana deserves it as much as those pitchers in the 80's did. And the Hitters have the Hank Aaron award, the pitchers have the Cy Young. What's your point? You could say the same thing that a certain hitter doesnt deserve the MVP because hes going to Win the Hank Aaron Award anyways......The Most Valueable player is the most valueable player, regardless of position.</div>Hank Aaron Award doesn't encompass fielding. It's not complete.

 

[FSUViking]

[quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='70259' date='Sep 22 2006, 12:07 AM'][quote name='FSUViking' post='70232' date='Sep 21 2006, 02:41 PM'][quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='70184' date='Sep 20 2006, 09:11 PM'][quote name='FSUViking' post='70166' date='Sep 20 2006, 03:38 PM']<span style="font-family:Convection"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#6600CC">If it wasn't for Morneau, the Twins aren't within 15 games of a Wild Card. Now that is the definition of a Most Valuable Player.</span></span></span>[/quote]If you put Morneau on the Yankees, and Jeter on the Twins, the Twins would have the division lead and the Yankees would still be battling the Red Sox for the division crown.[/quote]<span style="font-family:Convection"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#6600CC">WOW.So, your saying that putting Morneau and his .326 33 HRs and 125 RBI would make the Yankees' WORSE? And his personal stats would go DOWN surrounded by guys like Giambi and A-Rod? Meanwhile, Jeter would make the Twins better?That's about as fucked up as I have ever heard something be.</span></span></span>[/quote]Yes, if you took Jeter off the team for his roster spot, most definitely.[/quote]<span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="font-family:Convection"><span style="color:#6600CC">Again.....wow.</span></span></span>

 

[AdropOFvenom]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Sep 22 2006, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hank Aaron Award doesn't encompass fielding. It's not complete.</div>Neither does the Cy Young. :whistling:

 

[DevinHester23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Sep 23 2006, 10:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Sep 22 2006, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hank Aaron Award doesn't encompass fielding. It's not complete.</div>Neither does the Cy Young. :whistling:</div>I believe there's something called a Gold Glove for that

Even though that takes your stick into account