Aldridge for Monroe at the deadline?

[TowelBoy]

This is a trade I could actually see happening.

From Detroit's perspective: Aldridge is a proven All-Star in his prime, and his offensive game fits better with Josh Smith and Andre Drummond than Monroe's does. They seem to want to raise their ceiling ASAP, and bringing it another legitimate star could give them a chance at a 4-6 seed.

From Portland's perspective: I love our young core and think more highly of its ceiling than some do, but the fact remains that we'll probably lose Aldridge in 2015 unless this group exceeds even MY expectations, i.e. make a WCF before he hits free agency. If that's true, then it's not a question of IF we trade him; only WHEN and FOR WHAT.

Well, Monroe is a solid replacement for Aldridge in a lot of ways. Four years younger, similar size, skilled offensively but not so great defensively, etc. More importantly, we could lock him up to a long-term extension and have control over our ENTIRE young core, rather than being at the mercy of our best player's whim as we try to build this thing up.

Plus, since Aldridge > Monroe and since we have more leverage (Detroit's desire to contend is bordering on desperation, and we can accurately claim we don't have to trade Aldridge this year at all), we can demand more assets as well.

That's where I get bogged down, though, in terms of fitting a workable deal. Detroit, ironically, owes its 2014 pick to Charlotte much as we do (Top 8 protected rather than Top 12). I have no idea if they would be willing to include Brandon Knight, and I have even less idea why we'd want him given the young talent in our back court and his disappointing, bust-like trajectory.

Maybe it would require a third team in an Aldridge-Monroe deal to get us the future assets we need. Monroe/Caldwell-Pope/Stuckey for Aldridge works, but I'd hope for more.

 

[jlprk]

Cheeks and Sheed could play good cop, bad cop to make Aldridge more fierce.

 

[NOVoodoo]

Two things about that -

1) I don't know if this is true: "Plus, since Aldridge > Monroe and since we have more leverage (Detroit's desire to contend is bordering on desperation, and we can accurately claim we don't have to trade Aldridge this year at all), we can demand more assets as well."

Not only is Monroe just now coming into his own as a basketball player, but Aldridge is also peaking. In terms of player development, Monroe has improved markedly every year since his freshman season at Georgetown. A 6'11", 250 lb. Center that just posted 16/10 in his sophomore season in the pro's and just turned 23 is a valuable asset for any team. Just like how sex sells in the marketing world, size and youth sell in the NBA, and Monroe has both. I don't know if his value is really less than Aldridge's. If anything, I'd have to figure it'd be the other way around.

Not to mention, all we've heard about all summer is how the Pistons have been floating their cap assets, Villanueva and Stuckey, for guys like Gay and Rondo. Monroe's name is almost never mentioned in those talks, so I doubt Monroe's realistically on the table.

2) If the Pistons were to trade Monroe, why wouldn't they be looking to bolster their backcourt? Aside from Monroe, Smith, and Drummond, based on watching him in summer league play, Viacheslav Kravtsov looks like a very legitimate 10-15 mpg back-up center, poised for a breakout year.

Meanwhile, their backcourt is manned by Rodney Stuckey and Brandon Knight, two guys who like to throw up shots and gamble offensively. If there were a trade involving Monroe (or Drummond), I'd assume they'd be trying to bring in a legitimate point or two guard.

 

[Rhal]

Two things about that -

1) I don't know if this is true: "Plus, since Aldridge > Monroe and since we have more leverage (Detroit's desire to contend is bordering on desperation, and we can accurately claim we don't have to trade Aldridge this year at all), we can demand more assets as well."

Not only is Monroe just now coming into his own as a basketball player, but Aldridge is also peaking. In terms of player development, Monroe has improved markedly every year since his freshman season at Georgetown. A 6'11", 250 lb. Center that just posted 16/10 in his sophomore season in the pro's and just turned 23 is a valuable asset for any team. Just like how sex sells in the marketing world, size and youth sell in the NBA, and Monroe has both. I don't know if his value is really less than Aldridge's. If anything, I'd have to figure it'd be the other way around.

Not to mention, all we've heard about all summer is how the Pistons have been floating their cap assets, Villanueva and Stuckey, for guys like Gay and Rondo. Monroe's name is almost never mentioned in those talks, so I doubt Monroe's realistically on the table.

2) If the Pistons were to trade Monroe, why wouldn't they be looking to bolster their backcourt? Aside from Monroe, Smith, and Drummond, based on watching him in summer league play, Viacheslav Kravtsov looks like a very legitimate 10-15 mpg back-up center, poised for a breakout year.

Meanwhile, their backcourt is manned by Rodney Stuckey and Brandon Knight, two guys who like to throw up shots and gamble offensively. If there were a trade involving Monroe (or Drummond), I'd assume they'd be trying to bring in a legitimate point or two guard.

I'm not big on Monroe. He is a great young player with who is HORRIBLE on D but is great on O and will probably put up 20/10 for the foreseeable future. Thats the good part but he is a RFA at the end of next season and will get a MAX offer so your committing to this guy as being your franchise player and I see him as more of a Al Jefferson/David Lee type player. Great guy to have but do you really want to be paying him 12+ million a year and have him be your highest paid player? If you had a stud defensive C to play next to him and make it a ZBO/Gasol type 2some then I could see the logic in doing it but if you don't I don't like the move. This new CBA really limits teams on how they can spend money and if your doling out Max money you better make sure your getting an All-star for it who makes your team better on both sides of the court.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Isn't Monroe just Al Jefferson II? No thanks. Drummond or nothing from Detroit.

 

[Draco]

If we trade LaMarcus I think we should aim to trade away Matthews in the deal as he will be valuable for a team contending today but not as much for a Blazer team a few years away.

 

[tlongII]

Detroit isn't making the playoffs so I don't see Aldridge being happy with this if it were proposed.

 

[e_blazer]

Detroit isn't making the playoffs so I don't see Aldridge being happy with this if it were proposed.

Exactly. If the decision is made to trade LMA it would have to be to a team that he'd be happy to re-sign with. Otherwise, the team receiving him would be in the position that the Blazers are...worrying about him leaving for nothing when his contract runs out.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

DET is in the East. I wouldn't say it is a given that they don't make the playoffs. It took a whole 38 freakin' wins to make the playoffs in the East last year and DET has improved (at least on paper).

 

[e_blazer]

Just making the playoffs in the East isn't likely to make LMA salivate at the prospect of re-signing with the Pistons. If he wants out of Portland, it's to go to a team that has a real shot at contending for a title, not another rebuilding situation.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Just making the playoffs in the East isn't likely to make LMA salivate at the prospect of re-signing with the Pistons. If he wants out of Portland, it's to go to a team that has a real shot at contending for a title, not another rebuilding situation.

Agree with that. Obviously getting 8th in the East isn't going to help much when you get stomped by the Heat. Not much different from us getting 7th or 8th in the West this year and getting stomped by SAS or OKC or HOU though. We don't care why they take him just if they will or not (assuming it is the best offer).

 

[blue9]

Detroit isn't making the playoffs so I don't see Aldridge being happy with this if it were proposed.

At this point it doesn't really matter if LMA is happy with the receiving team. We certainly shouldn't care about whether he's happy - all we should be concerned about it whether WE like the trade. Now if we get to next summer and he's still on the team, then we're going to get hosed because teams won't have control of him for more than a season, and that's when LMA's happiness comes into the trade equation. But for now? Trade him to the WNBA if it improves the team in the long-run.
With all that said, I think Monroe for Rondo is more likely to happen. However, with the Smith signing the need for a "stretch" 4 slightly increases the chances that we could deal LMA to DET.
But yeah, I really want Drummond. I'd be happy enough with Monroe, but Drummond is the prize.

 

[Rhal]

At this point it doesn't really matter if LMA is happy with the receiving team. We certainly shouldn't care about whether he's happy - all we should be concerned about it whether WE like the trade. Now if we get to next summer and he's still on the team, then we're going to get hosed because teams won't have control of him for more than a season, and that's when LMA's happiness comes into the trade equation. But for now? Trade him to the WNBA if it improves the team in the long-run.
With all that said, I think Monroe for Rondo is more likely to happen. However, with the Smith signing the need for a "stretch" 4 slightly increases the chances that we could deal LMA to DET.
But yeah, I really want Drummond. I'd be happy enough with Monroe, but Drummond is the prize.

Definitely want Drummond over pretty much every young player if were trading LMA.
Also agree that his happiness matters not when we trade him.

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[magnifier661]

It has to be Drummond or no deal.

 

[Draco]

Just making the playoffs in the East isn't likely to make LMA salivate at the prospect of re-signing with the Pistons. If he wants out of Portland, it's to go to a team that has a real shot at contending for a title, not another rebuilding situation.

What team is going to have 1. A real shot at contending 2. Be in a city better than Portland and 3. Have cap room for a max contract in two years?

That is pretty damn specific set of standards and LaMarcus is not a superstar player. Like Josh Smith this offseason he may have to settle for 1 or 2 of those 3 criteria. That’s another reason I’m not on the “trade LaMarcus so he doesn’t walk for nothing” bandwagon. I think there is a good chance LMA resigns here in a few years even if its not his ideal team or ideal city; it might be his best option available.

 

[PapaG]

At this point it doesn't really matter if LMA is happy with the receiving team. We certainly shouldn't care about whether he's happy - all we should be concerned about it whether WE like the trade. Now if we get to next summer and he's still on the team, then we're going to get hosed because teams won't have control of him for more than a season, and that's when LMA's happiness comes into the trade equation. But for now? Trade him to the WNBA if it improves the team in the long-run.
With all that said, I think Monroe for Rondo is more likely to happen. However, with the Smith signing the need for a "stretch" 4 slightly increases the chances that we could deal LMA to DET.
But yeah, I really want Drummond. I'd be happy enough with Monroe, but Drummond is the prize.

Of course the Blazers shouldn't care, but I imagine a team giving up a player that Portland values as being at LMA's level is going to want some guarantee that LMA will stay there. Otherwise, they give away a young solid player, and end up potentially with nothing for LMA.

It takes two sides to trade. I think people forget about that at times.

 

[PapaG]

Definitely want Drummond over pretty much every young player if were trading LMA.
Also agree that his happiness matters not when we trade him.

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I guarantee it's going to matter to the team trading for him, though. Otherwise it's a Lakers/Dwight Howard fiasco.

 

[e_blazer]

What team is going to have 1. A real shot at contending 2. Be in a city better than Portland and 3. Have cap room for a max contract in two years?

Well no shit. This is why I've been saying all along that the talk that Aldridge is going to be traded is overblown. Most of the trade proposals I see around here have LMA going to some other town where a rebuild is going on. Why the hell would the receiving team be interested in giving up a valuable asset only to be in the same position as the Blazers are? NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

 

[magnifier661]

Well no shit. This is why I've been saying all along that the talk that Aldridge is going to be traded is overblown. Most of the trade proposals I see around here have LMA going to some other town where a rebuild is going on. Why the hell would the receiving team be interested in giving up a valuable asset only to be in the same position as the Blazers are? NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

Only place I see Aldridge bolt to is one of the Texas teams. It won't be because they are contending. Will any of them have enough to get him though?

 

[ABM]

Will any of them have enough to get him though?

Houston, with a third team involved?

 

[magnifier661]

Houston, with a third team involved?

That's if we want to trade. And who'd we want anyway? Howard? I bet he's gonna suck and be a nightmare.

 

[BrianFromWA]

This is a story about Josh Smith, but there's a bunch about Monroe and his pros/cons:

Monroe is a very good offensive player, but he's a glaring liability on defense in a league getting smaller and quicker. He's a turnstile trying to contain the pick-and-roll out on the floor — a mess of bad footwork, poor timing, lazy reaches, and bad choices. When Detroit has him hang back at the foul line, ball handlers can zip around him with an easy crossover or launch wide-open jumpers as Monroe, petrified at giving up a rim run, retreats a step farther than most bigs would dare — often with his arms down. Pistons fans complained, with some justification, about Lawrence Frank's reluctance to play Monroe and Drummond together for much of last season, but Monroe's total inability to guard stretchier power forwards factored into that choice — just as it should factor into Detroit's evaluation of things now.

When the Pistons asked Monroe to attack the ball higher on the floor, the mess was almost worse. Point guards can juke Monroe with laughable ease by faking toward a screener, watching Monroe lurch in that direction, and then crossing over the other way and into an unpatrolled lane. Monroe is often late in jumping out above a screen, meaning his momentum is going too hard the wrong way (toward half court) as the opposing point guard revs up to turn the corner. And when Detroit has asked him to hedge sideways, as in the still below, Monroe often arrives too late to cut off the ball handler:

His off-ball defense is similarly unintuitive. Monroe wants to help and has a rudimentary sense of where he should be as the chess pieces move around the floor, but he's unsure of himself and prone to fatal hesitations and bouts of confusion. He has struggled to develop any chemistry with his big-man partners, so that a lot of Detroit possessions end with late help rotations or both bigs chasing one opposing big man — each under the impression the other would be elsewhere on the floor. Watching film of Detroit's defense basically amounts to sitting through an hours-long reel of dunks, shrugged shoulders, and inattentive help; only eight teams allowed more shots at the rim last season, and only three allowed opponents to shoot a higher percentage than the ghastly 61.1 percent Detroit allowed.

The ironic thing, after reading the article, is that if DET swapped out Monroe for LMA they'd solve a lot of their frontcourt problems. DET being able to run out Smith/LMA/Drummond would be sick both defensively and offensive. In return, though, there would have to be much more coming back than just Monroe--who could be a very useful player, but would put a ton of pressure on our D--and I don't think DET has the assets or the inclination to do so.

 

[BrianFromWA]

brings up an interesting question: assuming that both players get the "max" allotted to them (if we keep LMA or get Monroe in a trade and extend him), would you want to be paying LMA a 5/94M contract with a salary starting at 17M or so in his Age 30 season and going up to 20.4M in his Age 34 season; or a 5/77M contract to Monroe starting at 13.7M in his Age 25 season and up to 17M in his age 29 season?

Or if he goes the RFA route (the "Roy Hibbert Plan") the max would be 4/58M.

 

[Rhal]

brings up an interesting question: assuming that both players get the "max" allotted to them (if we keep LMA or get Monroe in a trade and extend him), would you want to be paying LMA a 5/94M contract with a salary starting at 17M or so in his Age 30 season and going up to 20.4M in his Age 34 season; or a 5/77M contract to Monroe starting at 13.7M in his Age 25 season and up to 17M in his age 29 season?

Or if he goes the RFA route (the "Roy Hibbert Plan") the max would be 4/58M.

Zach Lowe pretty much sums up my exact feeling on the matter in that article
"But Drummond projects as a game-changing defender. Monroe does not, and offense-only big men on their second NBA contracts tend to become drains on a team's salary cap who also place limits on their team's ceiling."
So my answer is that I don't want Monroe on any big contract unless he improves on his D.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Zach Lowe pretty much sums up my exact feeling on the matter in that article
"But Drummond projects as a game-changing defender. Monroe does not, and offense-only big men on their second NBA contracts tend to become drains on a team's salary cap who also place limits on their team's ceiling."
So my answer is that I don't want Monroe on any big contract unless he improves on his D.

I think he can improve his D but let's say he doesn't, he is barely below Aldridge in that area who does have the large contract.

 

[magnifier661]

I think he can improve his D but let's say he doesn't, he is barely below Aldridge in that area who does have the large contract.

People are giving too little credit for aldridges footwork and man on man defense. He rarely needs any double help and he's able to keep the forwards out of their sweet spots. There's no oddity that the team holds players to shitty fg% when he's close to the basket.

I doubt Monroe will ever get to that level.

 

[Rhal]

I think he can improve his D but let's say he doesn't, he is barely below Aldridge in that area who does have the large contract.

You are greatly under valuing Aldridges D and Monroe hasn't really improved on D at all in three years so I doubt he is suddenly going to start caring

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[KeepOnRollin]

LMA is a better defender. I not debating that. I debating by how much. LMA is not close to all-world. And for the record, I don't want to trade LMA. I would rather he stays. I just don't see that happening. Monroe is probably only one of the 10 young players I could see being worth trading LMA for (if they threw in a 1st and maybe some other player).

 

[blue9]

brings up an interesting question: assuming that both players get the "max" allotted to them (if we keep LMA or get Monroe in a trade and extend him), would you want to be paying LMA a 5/94M contract with a salary starting at 17M or so in his Age 30 season and going up to 20.4M in his Age 34 season; or a 5/77M contract to Monroe starting at 13.7M in his Age 25 season and up to 17M in his age 29 season?

Or if he goes the RFA route (the "Roy Hibbert Plan") the max would be 4/58M.

I've been trying to bring up the issue of LMA's next contract for a while now, but nobody seems to be interested in thinking about it. I think it would be an absolute nail in the coffin to be paying him $17-20M a year. And that's the #1 reason we should trade him by the deadline - regardless of whether he wants to stay with us or not (and, BTW, I don't think he does) he will be a huge financial burden.

 

[magnifier661]

I've been trying to bring up the issue of LMA's next contract for a while now, but nobody seems to be interested in thinking about it. I think it would be an absolute nail in the coffin to be paying him $17-20M a year. And that's the #1 reason we should trade him by the deadline - regardless of whether he wants to stay with us or not (and, BTW, I don't think he does) he will be a huge financial burden.

EDIT: He's making 14 mil now. A 4 mil increase is now a huge nail in the coffin?! Lmao!!!

Okay let's break this down shall we?

Let's say he's getting 18 mil next contract. Let's break down his career numbers as reference.

Career stats: 18.3 ppg, 7.8 rebounds, 2 assists 1 block and 1 steal

That means he's getting roughly around 1 mil per point.

Now let's look at your boy Nic Batum.

11.8 mil going into the season Aldridge may get his big salary.

11 ppg, 4.3 rebounds, 2 assists, 0.8 blocks and 1 steal.

By this same account, Nic is just a financial liability. Yet you give Nic a pass and say Aldridge is some sort of burden? Seriously blue9....